Hi all,

I just come back after a few weeks back to LFS and looked at fmy favourite combination of BL + GTI.I downloaded top time and tried the car and then realize that:eek: .

How can car makes faster times on hybrid tyres then on road normal???!!!
With higher and more complicated pattern you couldnt achive in real life faster times.For me it seems like a huge bug in physical model.I am getting a bit confused from that as it really shoot to my eyes :-(

I dont want to start flame about this as I know Scawen made till now great work but this is really odd.Hope some serious dïscussion will show below.

there r few threads bout that already, use search function first next time
to topic, like in other threads said its realistic. hybrids are softer = more grip = faster turns.

Some serious discussions were made below.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2830
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2500

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

there r few threads bout that already, use search function first next time
to topic, like in other threads said its realistic. hybrids are softer = more grip = faster turns.

Its not only about softness but about the pattern on the tyre.You have on hybrid tyre less touching area with road so less grip then with road normal.THATS realistic.

Hybrid have more grip on dirty track due to pattern.So how they can do better on normal track then road normal tyres.

Sorry for not using search function.I just cam back after a weeks to LFS...still not having much time so I just tried as described above.

i dont know if you had physics already at school, because you would have learnt, that the size of the touching area is more or less not important to the grip. rather the weight on one tyre and how good the material fixes to the ground.
if you would also compare the 2 profiles of the tyre, you would see, that there are no big diffrences.
in a whole that means:
you know already that hybrid-tires are softer and weight and profile of the tyres are almost the same. that all leads to more grip.

Also with the tyre pattern it will move around more generating more heat quicker.

Keiran

so they are better to a point, but i think it has been pointed out already that they are unlikely to last anywhere near as long as road super tyres.

In my tests ages ago I found Hybrid tyres to pull the same G forces as Road Normal tyres. It is entirely possible they are actually slightly stickier. But as was mentioned before they will only last a couple of laps so nobody uses them for racing on the front. On the rears however is supposed to be good...

I think it's also important to remember that I don't think a single WR set will last for many laps anyway since they are all so aggresively set up for performance at all cost (even driveability).

Yeah, Bob's right, WR laps are all nice and dandy, but they don't mean a damn thing to real racing. The only place where they could be useful is qualifying, but even then these setups are too extreme, IMO.

And as I said in some other thread, why should the hybrids have less grip on tarmac? They are the same as normals but with softer rubber and a different tread. They don't have the magic rallyx ingredient that makes them super good on mud and sucky on tarmac. Also many people seem to forget that road normals aren't designed to give extremely good grip but rather to last long. See: winter (hybrid) and summer (normal) tyres. Former grip better but aren't as lasting.

So what are your best times with a race-setup that lasts at least for 30 laps ob Blackwood in the GTI?

I managed a 1:32.98x once.

my best time(s) with 4 normal are 1:32.60-70.
with hybrids in back i get about 1:32.40's
and my normal tire set allows me at least 25 rounds. with hybrids u wont drive that distance.

1:31:65 is possible (from my best splits) with a normal front-hybrid back set too which should be good for 30 laps. Normal-normal pb is 31:88.

There is one thing i do like about Hybrid rears is the even buildup of heat across all four tyres, it means you can really plan to use the rear of the car for weight transfer early on and consistantly throughout the distance but under race conditions mine only really go 17-18 laps

Are world records with the gti on other tracks done with hybrid tyres too?

Might be useful to point out to the doubters that single seaters that are mainly used for racing will occasionally be hillclimbed with wets, they give more grip and save the expense of hillclimb tires for occasional use.

Quote from bLaCk VaMpIrE :

i dont know if you had physics already at school, because you would have learnt, that the size of the touching area is more or less not important to the grip. rather the weight on one tyre and how good the material fixes to the ground.

But doesn't bigger contact patch offer more grip? I thought that's why they used slicks for high-end racing. You know, the bigger the sticky area, the more it sticks. And the weight on the tire is the same, because you're racing the same car. The grooves on the tire surfaces are meant to maximize grip off road and help water escape from under the tire in the rain, if it weren't for that, all cars would have slicks, because more contact patch = more grip.

Hybrids would have to be a lot stickier than road supers to compensate for the holes between teeth. I guess they are, if they wear so fast.

They will be even stickier than racing wets, which will be quicker than normal slicks over short distances.

Quote from bLaCk VaMpIrE :

i dont know if you had physics already at school, because you would have learnt, that the size of the touching area is more or less not important to the grip. rather the weight on one tyre and how good the material fixes to the ground.

That's essentially true for two hard materials pressed together, but rubber works quite differently. Rubber grip is highly dependent on contact pressure and contact area.

Quote from Whisper :

But doesn't bigger contact patch offer more grip? I thought that's why they used slicks for high-end racing.

Yes, but the hybrid tires and slicks are made out of different compounds with different grip characteristics.

Quote from Whisper :

The grooves on the tire surfaces are meant to maximize grip off road and help water escape from under the tire in the rain, if it weren't for that, all cars would have slicks, because more contact patch = more grip.

Not exactly. Don't you think that your traction would be compromised whenever you went over other items such as sand and dirt?

Quote from Scirocco :

Not exactly. Don't you think that your traction would be compromised whenever you went over other items such as sand and dirt?

I think he was assuming the surface being driven at hand was tarmac.

Quote from GTR_Yuni :

I think he was assuming the surface being driven at hand was tarmac.

So was I. You must live somewhere where all the roads are constantly swept clean of any dirt, sand and any other types of debris.

Quote from ajp71 :

They will be even stickier than racing wets, which will be quicker than normal slicks over short distances.

Hmm if wets are quicker over short distances how come people never use them irl for qualifying? Or do they..?

Quote from Bob Smith :

I think it's also important to remember that I don't think a single WR set will last for many laps anyway since they are all so aggresively set up for performance at all cost (even driveability).

In the Vixen Challenge (formula XR league) a lot of us are using hotlapping sets in races. At ky national i used the wr set for 20 laps (100% fuel) and in a practice run, got all my laps bar 3 or 4 under 1 second off the wr (1:40.xx) which is quick there. In the formula xr it is certainly feasable at many circuits to use hotlapping sets over race distances.

Quote from Scirocco :

So was I. You must live somewhere where all the roads are constantly swept clean of any dirt, sand and any other types of debris.

I don't see your point, but our roads are pretty clean.

Quote from Whisper :

I don't see your point, but our roads are pretty clean.

Slicks lose most of their grip if they get a bit dirty.