Quote from BuddhaBing :

Very strange. That texture is missing from the MAS file but I don't get that error message no matter what graphics settings I use. I wonder if it has to do with your graphics settings? Can you please show a screenshot of your in-game graphics settings and your rFConfig settings, as shown in the two screengrabs below:
http://i6.tinypic.com/682r583.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/5zbggzm.jpg

I'd really like to track down the root cause of this problem. In the meantime, the missing texture file is attached. Put it in the GameData\Vehicles\BMW_E92_M3_2008 folder.

I got that error too, see pic for details. I managed to fix it by adding a "bmw_m3_body2_spec.dds" file into the mas with the isi tools...

After that tweak the car has some reddish parts around the car but other than that all is fine. Kinda like the underpaint showing through (sp).

As for the car it feels very light! Makes it very easy and forgiving to drive but it feels a bit too fast and agile for a one and half tonne coupe. Might be the dowforce but it is not really that... Haven't never driven a m3 at those speeds so I can't really contribute much though

For a rf car it feels quite predictable and a bit too forgiving but still quite nice.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

What sort of cornering G force does it pull? If its 1.2+ it will have a fall over tendency indeed.. The C6 with the semi slicks (1.07G) can already be flipped if you hit a kerb in some (very) unlucky way..

The skidpad is a nice test track (see rfactor central) though you'd have to disable the bumps in the main terrain.tdf to make it flat and the readouts stable.

I suppose the M3 pulls some 0.95G perhaps? dunno really..

The Car & Driver road test I referenced above shows that the E92 M3 pulls 0.94g on a 300ft diameter skidpad. As I indicated in my previous post, when I did a similar test on the skidpad in rFactor, the M3 pulled just over 1.0g. I intend to continue tweaking to get this number closer to the real test results.

When I set the centre of gravity to the higher value, the car rolled over even when I was driving slowly and nowhere near pulling even 1g. It was just very unstable. You can see this yourself by editing the HDC file and plugging in whatever values you want.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I got that error too, see pic for details. I managed to fix it by adding a "bmw_m3_body2_spec.dds" file into the mas with the isi tools...

Thanks. What are your in-game graphics settings and what settings do you use in your rFConfig video setup? I'm guessing that the missing file is only used for certain graphics settings.

Quote from Hyperactive :

As for the car it feels very light!

That has also been my impression of just about every car in rFactor. Increasing the moments of inertia by a factor of 1.5 makes the car feel much more weighty - and in my subjective opinion, more realistic, However, carFactory calculated MOIs which are reasonably close to those Blimey! used in M3 Challenge and around what I would expect based on the NHTSA's vehicle inertia database so I decided to stay with the carFactory calculated numbers. I may bump up the MOI values to give the car a more weighty feel though.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I got that error too, see pic for details. I managed to fix it by adding a "bmw_m3_body2_spec.dds" file into the mas with the isi tools...

After that tweak the car has some reddish parts around the car but other than that all is fine. Kinda like the underpaint showing through (sp).

As for the car it feels very light! Makes it very easy and forgiving to drive but it feels a bit too fast and agile for a one and half tonne coupe. Might be the dowforce but it is not really that... Haven't never driven a m3 at those speeds so I can't really contribute much though

For a rf car it feels quite predictable and a bit too forgiving but still quite nice.

I got EXCATLY the same error, so it isn't my PC.
Thanks for the tips how to delete the very first version.
I can't tweak the mas, dunno how to do it, could you please post yours?

Quote from Fabri91 :

I got EXCATLY the same error, so it isn't my PC.
Thanks for the tips how to delete the very first version.
I can't tweak the mas, dunno how to do it, could you please post yours?

I'm not saying it's your PC. I think it might only happen with specific graphics settings. For example, it might only happen if you are running Medium Shadows, Low Effects and Full Textures in DirectX8 mode or something like that. I wanted to know what graphics settings you use so that I could try to replicate the problem and spot any similar problems before distributing new versions.

Anyway, here's the fixed MAS: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=A3V8NZ1T

Quote from Fabri91 :

I got EXCATLY the same error, so it isn't my PC.
Thanks for the tips how to delete the very first version.
I can't tweak the mas, dunno how to do it, could you please post yours?

The mas editor: http://www.rfactor.net/downloads/utils/mas_203.zip

---
Mr. Bing, the visual presentation of my graphic settings is in the attachment

EDIT: got rid of those reddish thingies when I use your mas file. No idea about the need of the file though...

The heck are these?

The problem that we are trying to locate and solve.
I'm making shots of the graphic sets.

EDIT:


AA and AF are 4x and 16x, using driver override...

I've just finished a revision of the E92 M3 mod for those interested. The new revision fixes a couple of errors in the previous version, improves the accuracy of the car's performance versus the Car & Driver road test and introduces some new features.

The errors which were fixed included a missing texture in the MAS file and a miscalculation in one of the tyre compound braking curves.

One of the major improvements is that the car now pulls 0.94g on a 300-ft diameter skidpad, matching the Car & Driver road test. The previous version could pull about 1.05g which meant that it was more sporty than it should have been.

Here's the chart showing performance relative to the Car & Driver stats for the new version.


The performance in each category is noticeably closer.

New features include a damage model; no visible body damage but each of the car's components can now be damaged or fail. It's quite fun watching the AI trail smoke or have their engine blow up and seize right in front of you.

I've also included a number of upgrade options including options for tyres, ride frequencies (from a comfortable 1.5Hz front, 1.65Hz rear perfect for a daily driver to a stiff 1.9Hz front, 2.05Hz rear) and roll centre heights (from 65mm front, 120mm rear down to 45mm front, 90mm rear). These options allow you to configure the car to be anything from a relatively sedate sports coupe suitable for use as a daily driver to a bit of a handful more suited to autocross or the track.

If you're interested, the new version can be downloaded from:
[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

As before, any feedback would be most welcome.

Have fun!

Is there any chance of a patch rather than a full download?

Quote from ajp71 :

Is there any chance of a patch rather than a full download?

Sure thing. The following download links contain only the updated car files. Sounds, rFm, helmet and team/vehicle specific data are not included. The patch must be installed over an existing installation of the previous version. To install, just extract the contents of the zip and copy the GameData folder into your main rFactor folder. When prompted, let it overwrite the existing files.

[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

Thanks, now it is really good!

You can use that damage I posted earlier if you like, it is better starting point for visual damage than starting from scratch, about 2 million miles better, imo

Quote from Fabri91 :

Thanks, now it is really good!

Great, glad to hear you got it working and please accept my apologies for the problems with the previous version. I look forward to hearing whatever feedback you'd like to offer now that it's up and running.

Quote from JTbo :

You can use that damage I posted earlier if you like, it is better starting point for visual damage than starting from scratch, about 2 million miles better, imo

Yeah, now that I can see mesh deformation visually in-game rather than just seeing the status of components change as they become damaged or fail, I can see that the damage settings I was using are terrible. Your settings are, as you say, about 2 million times better. Maybe more Do you mind if I integrate your damage settings into subsequent versions of the mod? Full credit will be given, of course.

Quote from BuddhaBing :

Yeah, now that I can see mesh deformation visually in-game rather than just seeing the status of components change as they become damaged or fail, I can see that the damage settings I was using are terrible. Your settings are, as you say, about 2 million times better. Maybe more Do you mind if I integrate your damage settings into subsequent versions of the mod? Full credit will be given, of course.

Feel free to use and modify it as you like, I'm happy as long as we see better level of damage to mods

This is my little contribution to rFactor file documentation, if you haven't read it you might like to skim it trough.

I've noticed you put in different sets in the upgrades menu.
Sadly, not many of us can start something with those frequencies data, i'd suggest names like "track", "sport", "normal road" and so on...
And different levels of weight reduction as trackday tuning would be nice and add a lot to the immersion.

Example:
road set, stock springs and dampers
sport set, limited adjustable suspension
track set, fully adjustable.

I hope you understand, some sort of realistic mechanical tuning.

Maybe start with limited credit and "earn" the upgrade credits, like ZR challenge by ISI.

Quote from BuddhaBing :

I've just finished a revision of the E92 M3 mod for those interested.

...

As before, any feedback would be most welcome.

The M3 has now developed the same understeer tendency into the corners as the Niels' C6. Even when I brake hard, lift the brakes, shift 2 gears down and steer the wheel with the scandinavian flick - it won't come around. It just "resets" into understeer. I'm using the 0.95 tires and the highest CoG. I have tried with two of the stiffest suspensions and played with the roll bars (full front - minimum rear, vice versa and minimum both), to no avail... Maybe it is a feature in the M3, I found some mentions that "the car understeers into slow corners but with power it oversteers nicely"?. On power the car oversteers nicely though as does the real M3 from what I've read... The result is, sadly, that this makes the car a lot less interesting to drive.

Maybe it is a rear diff issue? It says on the setup page in rf that the diff has 5000% of power and coast values plus 100% pump. Isn't that = solid rear axle or is it just the way rf shows those values when they are not editable?

Or maybe the inertia value change did it?

Quote from Fabri91 :

Sadly, not many of us can start something with those frequencies data, i'd suggest names like "track", "sport", "normal road" and so on ... I hope you understand, some sort of realistic mechanical tuning.

Yes, I agree that adding more descriptive names to the upgrade options would be helpful. However, I don't want to allow every possible setup parameter to be tweaked. These are road cars and the degree to which they can be tuned in real life - without a great deal of time, effort and money - is somewhat limited.

Quote from Hyperactive :

The M3 has now developed the same understeer tendency into the corners as the Niels' C6. ...
Maybe it is a rear diff issue? It says on the setup page in rf that the diff has 5000% of power and coast values plus 100% pump. Isn't that = solid rear axle or is it just the way rf shows those values when they are not editable?

The diff power and coast settings were an error in the HDC file. Thanks for spotting that.

I agree that the car has a tendency to understeer in corner entry and that this makes it less interesting to drive than it could be.

[edit: download links to out of date versions removed. See later posts for most recent download links].

Quote from BuddhaBing :

The diff power and coast settings were an error in the HDC file. Thanks for spotting that.

There is another bug in the setups menu that I forgot to mention in my last post. The rear tires have the button to "change the tires" in the setup menu of the car. Pressing that button crashes rf and freezes my computer. Found it out by the hard way. Three times

Quote from BuddhaBing :

I agree that the car has a tendency to understeer in corner entry and that this makes it less interesting to drive than it could be. Try the attached changes to the physics files and see if it improves things.

...

It's not really all that corner entry understeer, it is the whole affair that it is practically impossible to spin the car for no other reason than giving it way too much power. As with the C6 there is basically no lift-off throttle oversteer and the rear doesn't come out (and stay out) unless the car thrown into the corners in extreme angle and given lots of throttle. Kinda like the scandinavian flick but the entry part is very overdone to make the transition back to power possible while maintaining the drift.

It is possible to uppset the car in right way by setting the brake balance enough to the rear. From that it might be possible to make the assumption that the "fault" is not in the tires and probably not even in the inertias. Next thing that comes into my mind is the drivetrain. It didn't have much effect to put 0% coast to the diff so my next guess would be the inertias and resistances in the drivetrain.

With the current situation it is possible to go from 4th to 2nd when basically throwing the car into corners without things getting even slightly worrying. This could hint that there is not enough resistance in the drivetrain to cause the rear wheels to brake enough (or to keep the rears braking). Basically possible thing to look for are drivetrain inertias and efficiency of the drivetrain (40% or so, just a guess)... Just pointing out things you may have not considered yet .

I admit that I very much like the M3, it just feels that there is no punishment when I do something stupid when going into corners, kinda like there is some sort of stability aid on which I can't turn on. Good job but as I said to Niels, keep working on it

EDIT: Just to mention, I tried the newest files and I'm still using as little roll bar on the front and as much as possible in the rear...

I've not been that interested in rFactor after they basically said the force combining is not realistic. There is little point in trying to achieve 'very good realism', until the physics model changes, 'fairly convincing' is about as good as it can get.

I do wonder why your M3 falls over so easily with realistic ish centre of gravity heights of ~50cm.. Very odd!

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

I've not been that interested in rFactor after they basically said the force combining is not realistic.

Did they (ISI) say that? Where? Could you post a link?

In private messaging. They combine it very logically and mathematically its not wrong, just that it, with current knowledge, doesn't really match what happens in actual rubber very well..

The most important thing is that they know it and plan to improve it..

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Hyperactive. I've been spending some time on the suspension and tyres and will have a look at the driveline next.

if we're already on modding, not sure if it's allowed here but in the official german m3 forum they managed to get the nordschleife working, i didn't follow the whole thread here so if its already posted somewhere excuse my ignorance

links:
1. http://forum.m3-challenge.com/ ... hp?p=550&postcount=40
2. http://forum.m3-challenge.com/ ... hp?p=726&postcount=46

short translation:


- make a full copy of the existing nuerburgring directoy in gamedata/locations
- rename it to nuerburgring_2 (important if you want to make the batchfile from the second link work)
- overwrite the files in nuerburgring_2 with the ones from the first link
- download the batchfile from the second link and extract it into gamedata/locations
- your ready to go start the game like you normally do get into the screen where you chose car/track and alt-tab back to windows
- run the batchfile (it will switch the directory names)
- go back to your game start the session and tada your on the ring

if your done run the batchfile again and everything is like it was before

Hi,

I turned off the AutoClutch, but although the "auto-blip" was turned off, the gearbox still shifts without pressing my clutch pedal. Does anyone have an idea how to solve this? Or could someone send me his settings file?