That's the promise that lead Europeans to inhabit America to start with. It's a sin to fall for the same pitch twice.
That's the promise that lead Europeans to inhabit America to start with. It's a sin to fall for the same pitch twice.
Lizard, I have nothing against ovals or so, but you really need to stop getting offended bye very single anti-oval post. I mean, i found the image deggis posted quite humorous 
i dunno ... coolness ? sense of humor ? throw it right back in his face for the fun of it ?
youre drifting deeper and deeper into stereotypical american territory here
do you honestly believe that you excite feelings as strong as hate in anyone here ?
this is exactly what europeans dislike about many americans
the drama queeniness and the arrogance to belive anyone would bother to get his blood boiling for you
since you seem to have accepted how stupid the whole racism thing was ill try to educate you on this one as well ... no one here bothers to hate any onf you ... we just enjoy poking you a little to see how you react ... and it works every single time
admitedly given your complete absence of a sense of humour and thus your defenselessness its a bit like kicking a puppy
If more and more f1 drivers keep coming, i wonder if a car company will come from Europe.
Somebody has yet to explain why lizardfolk should have to wade through the garbage most people seem to feel necessary to post just about every time he opens a thread. I personally don't follow NASCAR and probably never will, but if he wants to discuss the sport, why not leave it to him and the other fans?
I don't think this board is full of people who are anti-American to the point of hate, but the fact is there are a lot of non-Americans here who simply can't help themselves when they see an opportunity to insult NASCAR or Americans in general. It's pathetic to those of us that have actually travelled to America and met/know a wide-range of Americans.
I think lizardfolk was simply mistaken. He was under the impression that he could have a nice, balanced discussion regarding a motorsport he enjoys in a "general" racing forum. He was wrong. I think he assumed that this is a community full of mature individuals - it is not. My advice, Lizardfolk: Either ignore the idiots or embrace them.
P.S: I love how trolling is trolling unless it's directed at an American, in when case it becomes a "lesson".
(Btw, before you appeared, lizardfolk, NASCAR threads were few and far between. I think people are just scared this place is gonna be overrun with NASCAR fans, smothering all posts of alternate interests. It's like moving into a small village and having to deal with the inbreds that don't like strangers. They know they don't have the power to get rid of anything NASCAR-related so they do what they can to make you feel unwelcome.)
I don't think this board is full of people who are anti-American to the point of hate, but the fact is there are a lot of non-Americans here who simply can't help themselves when they see an opportunity to insult NASCAR or Americans in general. It's pathetic to those of us that have actually travelled to America and met/know a wide-range of Americans.
I think lizardfolk was simply mistaken. He was under the impression that he could have a nice, balanced discussion regarding a motorsport he enjoys in a "general" racing forum. He was wrong. I think he assumed that this is a community full of mature individuals - it is not. My advice, Lizardfolk: Either ignore the idiots or embrace them.
P.S: I love how trolling is trolling unless it's directed at an American, in when case it becomes a "lesson".
(Btw, before you appeared, lizardfolk, NASCAR threads were few and far between. I think people are just scared this place is gonna be overrun with NASCAR fans, smothering all posts of alternate interests. It's like moving into a small village and having to deal with the inbreds that don't like strangers. They know they don't have the power to get rid of anything NASCAR-related so they do what they can to make you feel unwelcome.)
yeah you do have a point there dna but honestly ... which other nascar fans ? he seems to be more or less the only one here and hes opening quite a few nascar threads each week
it seems to me like he loves to rile those that enjoy making fun of nascar up as much as we love making fun of his fav motorsport
it seems to me like he loves to rile those that enjoy making fun of nascar up as much as we love making fun of his fav motorsport
I don't like being labeled as anti-american. I don't like oval racing but I don't pick on it either, particularly. I don't like US foreign policy and a few other aspects of the "way of life" over there, but that doesn't mean I don't like americans. I've got lots of american friends who I'd love to see again if the INS would let me in. 
Who is this naill you speak of?
When did i say i was anti-american? 
Seriously though, i am by no means anti-american. I have been to America before, and its a very nice place with nice people too 
. I just don't really like NASCAR and ovals, the way i see it, it's just boring. About that skill thing i said, it was a bit of sarcasm, drifting takes no skill!
I know that NASCAR takes a lot of skill and nerves of steel.And sorry if i offended some people here, i didnt mean it.
How you came to the conclusion that my comment was personally directed towards you is quite frankly bewildering.
You must have seen the hidden pun in my post when you quoted me, so how you failed to see my comment as 100% tongue in cheek is baffling. I would have included more names but i could'nt think of any more famous Americans called Richard who are well know for being short.
To be honest my comment was directed towards Kev, i had thought it would have appealed to his sense of humour. Unfortunately, owing to the lack of response i guess i was wrong. At least Th84 got it
and he's American.As Shotglass has stated a number of times, you do seem to take personal offence when someone has a (usually) light hearted and good natured jibe. Maybe it's an American thing ? dunno ? but there are plenty of Americans on this forum who happily join in with the friendly ribbing.
Lizardfolk, if you believe i was launching a personal insult at you then please accept my apology. If you believe i was launching a personal attack on all things American, then again please accept my apology. Like Kev i have issue's with some of the American government's policies, but i'm smart enough to differentiate between the government and the people of that nation. I'm not sure what stance your media is taking, but honestly, the whole world is not 'Anti-American', we just don't like oval racing
I didn't see it until th84 highlighted it. Top stuff.
The people who lather the hate on oval racing are threatened by its growth.
The fact that guys like Montoya and Villeneuve would choose NASCAR over LeMans, DTM, WTCC or other open-wheel stuff goes to show how popular NASCAR has become.
The talent level is extremely high. Yes, it's specialised, but racing against guys who've been doing this for years and have been brought up doing it is harder then most road racing folks give it credit for. They have 36 races per season, each race lasting on average of at least 3 hours. The simple technology places a premium on driver skill and wankers are quickly unmasked.
And even if they're only midpackers, the paycheck at the end of the day is better than F1. One NASCAR driver, for instance, this season has failed to qualify for a third of the races run yet still has $1.5million in purse money to his name this year AND gets paid by his team to drive.
In F1, guys like Sutil or Yamamoto have to buy their rides with personal sponsors and probably don't see a dime of the race-by-race prize money.
And if either of those guys read this post and decided to go race NASCAR for the money, they'd suck so bad at it they'd be fired after their first race weekend which would inevitably result in a DNQ.
And I'm not even a fan of NASCAR myself.
The fact that guys like Montoya and Villeneuve would choose NASCAR over LeMans, DTM, WTCC or other open-wheel stuff goes to show how popular NASCAR has become.
The talent level is extremely high. Yes, it's specialised, but racing against guys who've been doing this for years and have been brought up doing it is harder then most road racing folks give it credit for. They have 36 races per season, each race lasting on average of at least 3 hours. The simple technology places a premium on driver skill and wankers are quickly unmasked.
And even if they're only midpackers, the paycheck at the end of the day is better than F1. One NASCAR driver, for instance, this season has failed to qualify for a third of the races run yet still has $1.5million in purse money to his name this year AND gets paid by his team to drive.
In F1, guys like Sutil or Yamamoto have to buy their rides with personal sponsors and probably don't see a dime of the race-by-race prize money.
And if either of those guys read this post and decided to go race NASCAR for the money, they'd suck so bad at it they'd be fired after their first race weekend which would inevitably result in a DNQ.
And I'm not even a fan of NASCAR myself.
You've kindly made the point i would make, thx
LeMans, DTM, WTCC or any other open-wheel racing wouldnt pay crazy sums of money, because they dont have the huge sums of money that NASCAR has to offer.
Whether thats the ONLY factor in anyones choice is another matter, im sure it isnt, but you can be pretty sure its a key factor. Does everyone love their current job, heck no, but how many people would take a significant pay cut, cut back on things you've been accustomed to for the last few years, just to do something you prefer. He's a racing driver, and pretty much all the doors that were open for him would have been perfectly adequate, each will have their own perks, some more significant than others, but whether he'd pick NASCAR over another series if the perks were equal is another matter.
I'll occasionally watch the odd NASCAR race if i happen to be flicking through the stations, and i wont doubt for a second that it has its own challenges racing in such tightly packed bunches.
But lets be clear, the driving round the track bit isnt the challenging part of the sport is it, its the opportunitism and many other factors involved in racing side by side. Its a whole diffferent aspect of racing that its focusing on, and that requires its own skills and experience to master.
Im trying to think of a comparison, and the closest i can think of (which probably wont go down well!) is 10-pin bowling. Oval racing is effectively 10-pin bowling with the cusions in the alley! Its removing the possibility of a ball going into the gutter and not hitting the target. Nascar would rather have the close action, with an easier track, than have a challenging track and possibly lose a couple of people to the gutter.
I certainly wouldnt say F1 or any other form of racing is better for not having close racing, plenty of overtaking, and instead having challenging locations such as Monaco, Macau, Suzuka, LeMans & Laguna Seca etc etc But to me the track should be every bit as challenging as the people your racing with, you should be fighting with both!
Dont get me wrong, im not saying 'Oval racing is for thicko's who havent acquired the ability to drive round a real track' i think its a whole different skill that is required, and respect should be given to those who master it, as with anything, but i am of the opinion that road/race circuit racing is a more challenging and higher form of racing, but thats just my opinion and im quite fond of it.
As for 'Anti-American' attitudes, its the new Racism card! I've been accused of being America hating based on the fact that i pointed out that EU folks pay a hell of a lot more the US folks for their games, in a thread complaining about the dipping $USD vs £GBP meaning that LFS was more expensive, and pointed out that the shoe was now effectively on the other foot. It wasnt a 'haha suck it up yanks' post, just highlighting that we get shafted on a day to day basis, your getting shafted once and its hitting a nerve. Then I find myself on the receiving end of half a dozen replies saying im Anti-American and people saying just ignore it, we have to put up with this crap all the time, suddenly a innocent comment is taken as being offensive and people use it to fan the fire, and people are wrongly branded as being bigots. As a nation there certainly feels like a 'Us vs Them' attitude is adopted whenever an opinion is expressed about something with any American association. Its 2nd only to religious outcry such is the level of sensitivity around anything Americans hold close to their heart.
Seriously though, maybe sometimes a less bias interpretation on peoples comments would help matters, Mazz and a couple other people arent being Anti-American, they're pretty much pulling your leg, possibly not helping matters, but if your stop taking peoples silly comments as geniune insults and then start up the 'Europe is Anti-American' comments (particularly when people chose to quote comments and intentionally cut out a section clearly highlighting its a joke!). Its quite bizarre how many of the 'Anti-American' comments are as discriminative as those they're accusing people of.
"F1 has always been insanely selective, and that's because of the prestige of the sport. Remember Sebastian Bourdais had SUCH a hard time getting a ride in F1. I mean it even came to the point where I though F1 teams were actually biased against ChampCar, Indy guys.
Remember Michael Andretti also competed in F1 with Ayrton Senna. While Andretti was no where near successful, he did land a podium in his last race."
If Bourdais was that good, he'd have got a ride, team managers dont pass up a good thing because of the stars & stripes, lets be clear on that!
Andretti provides the perfect example, championship chasing chassis, multiple world champion teammate, 8 (i think) pittyful results for what the car is capable of. 1 race is 1 race, ironic that about 14 years on (1993 IIRC, Senna's last year at Mclaren) another rookie is paired with a multiple world champion, and sticks his car on the podium of the first 8-9 races of the season. Apples & Pears i know, but when you carry the Andretti name, get an extremely capable package handed to you, and a pretty wage too, your expected to do more than 'land a podium' after half a dozen races. Take ol Nige, back to back F1 & Indycar titles, you get given the perfect package, your expected to hit the floor running.
You have a right to your own opinion, as does everyone else, maybe some people are unfairly stereotyping (is their ever fair stereotyping??), but then your not helping much from what ive read so far. Try not to typecast nations, whether others do it to yours or otherwise, and just tell them to bugger off, dont reply back with 'thats exactly the attitude i'd expect from a xxxxxxxx'.
Im quite happy to wind up mates about being american (or whereever theyre from) on matters such as holding world series events and being kind enough to only invite yourselves, the overweight junk food eating attitude, stealing the English language and then re-writing and re-labelling stuff as you see fit, and stuff like that, but its done to people who i know will give as good as they get, and know its all in jest. Take some comments a little more light-hearted, dont adopt a 'us vs them' mentality unless they're making that perfectly clear as chances are that isnt their opinion. There are things about many nations that you'll have a completely different attitude towards, but it doesnt make you Anti- anything, it means you have a differing opinion. Spread the love a little
I would like to see MG come back to NASCAR.
Alright, thxs for the apologies. But you guys are probably right, I may have overreacted too much and it's probably I who should apologize.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the ONLY NASCAR fan, but I'm probably the most active. A few months back, I had some great discussion with others, but recently I have been the only guy to mention anything about NASCAR.
You'll have to forgive my excitement. NASCAR has never had this many attention before and with Montoya, Villeneuve and Speed NASCAR's gotten very very interesting.
I can however contain my excitement and hold my tongue if that's what you guys want. (I get NASCAR news daily)
As for the Andretti situation, it's unfair to compare Mansell to Andretti. Mansell came directly from Formula 1 to INDY. Andretti came from INDY to Formula 1
How is this significant? Formula 1 cars are technologically superior to any other series's open wheels. Formula 1 is also a big step up talent wise. I would expect Mansell to do well in INDY considering how well he did in F1. But in Andretti's case, highly technical aspects which he was not used to in the more simple Indycar series such as active suspension and traction control hampered Andretti's chances for the 1993 F1 season.
Whether Michael Andretti's talented enough to be in F1 is debatable.
I don't know really, the fact that 2 former F1 drivers who enjoyed much success in US motorsports and another who is American himself have all defected to NASCAR doesn't really say much. If Montoya had been bumped straight up to Williams from F3000 in 1999 I doubt he'd be in NASCAR today. When the succesful drivers who have spent there entire careers in Europe/Asia start going to NASCAR then we can say something about it's popularity increasing.
It is getting more popular (compare now to before), however, it's not gotten THAT many international interest. The interest is still mainly in the America continents, it's just expanded from the America south to other American countries
or if he didn't switch to McLaren perhaps he will still be in F1 now~
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The Official Word: Speed/Villeneuve
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