I don't know where to post this, but this is hardware/controller-related.

After searching all possible ways to feel G-forces in racing simulation, I realized that there is no way to get convincing acceleration cues for less than $1000 if you DIY, or $2000 for commercial products. (I do not consider seat vibration is enough). But acceleration cues are badly needed in racing sims.
As I am currently unemployed, and I have some potentially interesting design for a motion simulator device, I would like to ask you:

If one day, there is a device with the following characteristics:
- less than $500
- small, portable, easy to mount/unmount
- does not require a racing seat or a cockpit
- provide very convincing acceleration cues, so you can physically feel the car
- robust
- less fancy-looking than mass-products but not ugly. Rather discrete. (fancy aluminium profiles and materials already cost hundreds of $ alone)
- works with LFS and rFactor first, and later other racing sims, flight simulators, and if possible all games where there is action/movement...like FPS!

would you like to buy such a device?

if it doesn't require a racing seat then what are you goign to sit in?

If I could find the money, then yes. Simple as that.

(UncleBenny - I think he means you use your usual seat, on to which the 'device' is attached).

in that case, i would not want to be getting moved around in my big office chair. if you are going to buy something to let you feel g-forces in a sim, i think anything other than a racing seat would cheapen the experience.

I voted "Yes", but it depends somewhat on the kind of feedback you mean. Is it a motion simulator or is it a back massager?

I'm not interested in sitting on a plastic cushion that pokes me in the arse. Not for $500 anyway, when I can get the same thing for £20 down by the docks.

But anything at all, racing seat or sofa, without a g-force thingy will be a cheaper experience anyway... If it's designed to work on an 'average office chair', then great.

Obviously it's not going to be a ForceDynamics. and it won't be one of those silly vibrating pads people get conned into buying, but somewhere in between...

If it was possible, which I doubt, then yes.

Instead of a second car, a Force Dyanmics might be the way to go

I wonder if one could actually be fast in an FD?

(ROFL @ Kev BTW.... please keep your dock experiences private :razz

If it was possible, definately yes!

Seeing 1 dollar = €0.75 the price itself isn't really really high.

In fact I ask this question because it is difficult for me to guess what simracers really want. I would like to have a clearer picture before starting this adventure.

I want to make something affordable...$500 or less if I can. Mechanics, actuators, electronics, software...
It is obvious that I can not use carbon fiber, fancy aluminium profiles, parts labeled with well-known brands.

My first goal is to focus on force feedback functionality and robustness for low price, not look. And I wonder wether this is really what simracers want. Most products designed for simracers focus on look and expensive material used, not price. Carbon fiber addons for G25 with LCD display, fiber glass cockpit shell, hand made wheels, real racing seats, gauges...

Maybe I should not try to make it for $500, and rather use expensive and nice material.

UncleBenny: it would not require a racing seat or a cockpit, but it should work with it too!

Quote from Juls :

In fact I ask this question because it is difficult for me to guess what simracers really want. I would like to have a clearer picture before starting this adventure.

I want to make something affordable...$500 or less if I can. Mechanics, actuators, electronics, software...
It is obvious that I can not use carbon fiber, fancy aluminium profiles, parts labeled with well-known brands.

My first goal is to focus on force feedback functionality and robustness for low price, not look. And I wonder wether this is really what simracers want. Most products designed for simracers focus on look and expensive material used, not price. Carbon fiber addons for G25 with LCD display, fiber glass cockpit shell, hand made wheels, real racing seats, gauges...

Maybe I should not try to make it for $500, and rather use expensive and nice material.

UncleBenny: it would not require a racing seat or a cockpit, but it should work with it too!

Why would you want it to look good?

You want to make it work, so that you can race without spending a ridiculous amount of money for some carbon fibre parts on that thing.

I mean, the only thing what matters is that you can sit, and race.
Why would you want to look at it and admire it if you can race?

Quote from Juls :

It is obvious that I can not use carbon fiber, fancy aluminium profiles, parts labeled with well-known brands.

I am definitely not interested in having something that looks cool - I would much rather have something that works well. If your platform provides acceleration simulation and responds quickly enough to inputs, I would be interested. Even if it looks like an instrument of torture.

hm so how exactly are you planning to do this for less than 500 ?
one of the major problems i see with this is that any motion sim that doesnt also move the wheel and pedals (and preferably the monitor too) will completely disconnect you from the wheel

Well, Cabon Fibre and Aluminum are light - and weight is a big issue with transient response... A Force Dyanamics without the monitor,wheel, (seat?) etc would be fine and would cut the cost a lot... Not sure what can be done for under $500 though.

If you build it.. they will come.

If there was a good sim on the market I would already have one. As I would have ECCI wheels and CST pedals along with a proper shifter and 30" screens. I'm not that rich: I'm driving with non-FF MS wheel and selfmade pedals because with the current sims there is no added immersion or any other reason to get the better hardware.

So the answer is no, at the moment. However, if one day we have a decent racing car simulator I'd defenately get one

my view on motion simularotors is that it's just not a good approach to try simulate g-forces, it's just not something you can really do. i'd much rather pay for a platform which simply simulates suspension movement and does it with great accuracy.

Cheap, easy solution: mount your wheels, pedals, screen and seat to a chassis of some form, then get BBT to pick you up and roll you around for an hour. He'll do it for a four pack of Guinness.

Thank you very much for voting. It seems such a product could find some customers, if I manage to do it

The funny (or not) thing is that the most difficult part to do is the part with no functionality...the plastic part for the look.

A few people with a low budget can put together mechanical parts without any problem.
They can do electronics too, and have a small PCB produced too.
They can develop drivers.

But try to have a plastic part produced... as soon as you put plastic in your product, you have to buy molds, order thousands parts.

use sheet metal then, will also look better

Yes you are right after studying about plastic sheet (ABS or Acrylic or even PP) forming, I came back to metal sheet.

This is the best thing for a limited budget, and metal sheet can make the device a lot stronger, while you can not expect plastic sheet to be a strong part of the structure, unless you use very thick sheet that are a nightmare to form.

It's a good idea but i'd prefer to just go for a drive in rl.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Cheap, easy solution: mount your wheels, pedals, screen and seat to a chassis of some form, then get BBT to pick you up and roll you around for an hour. He'll do it for a four pack of Guinness.

I tryed that already Bob, he gets tipsy after the 4th Guinness, and I ended up on my head, even though I was, un-UKCT-like, having my car on 4 wheels

Here's an idea: create the device as an open helmet which covers the user's head and shoulders.

Whenever you need to apply forces, motors inside the device apply the forces on the user's head using the shoulders as leverage point - you can then simulate front, back, left and right forces.

Bonus if you include headphones inside the helmet for sound, and allow the user to turn his head to change POV.

No bonus if the device snaps the user's spinal chord when hitting the wall at 300 km/h

Probably can be made for under $500. And people can finally justify wearing a helmet while driving a sim

You know, that doesn't sound all that bad!

Hmm

Wouldn't that be a tad hard / heavy on the neck after a while?