Still you keep comparing LFS to Nk PRO, and now you're even bringing Nk Namie into it, which was just a free [game] / [test] basically to see what they could achieve.

If you dont like netkar or netkar pro, you dont need to come to this thread and tell us, i for sure dont give a **** what you think, and would rather find out info about Nk Pro than listen to you lot acting like 8 year olds!

Tweak, which tracks are half done? I was talking about Falkenberg, only Falkenberg, Spa and Donnington are worth looking at, most of the NK namie tracks are converted from either Toca Race Driver or various ISI games from a few decades ago, neither of which are very graphically pleasing. I know others may like 3D spectators and so on but I feel that GPL can look fantastic, it may all be 2D graphics, so no they don't look correct from some angles (but you should be going along each piece of road at the same angle every lap ). The Papyrus tracks don't have to look like old tracks, have you ever seen the tracks that came with the GTP mod? They use this unsophisticated, old fashioned technology and look absolutley stunning with good frame rates. LFS's tracks don't look bad at all, but they don't capture an atmosphere like the GPL tracks, there's no reason why they should, they have no history and all look like they've just been built, this isn't a critisism of Eric's artwork, I don't think he ever intended to create historic tracks with such an atmosphere.

Quote from VALE 46 :

Still you keep comparing LFS to Nk PRO, and now you're even bringing Nk Namie into it, which was just a free [game] / [test] basically to see what they could achieve.

I'm comparing NK namie to LFS, IMO the single seaters in netkar are perfectly comparable to LFS.

I will try and make this clear one last time, my comments are entirely based off namie and S2 P2. I am only trying to compare the F3000/FO8 and Formula Renault/FOX. The road cars in namie just don't feel right, I don't know how realistic they are but they just don't have the same feeling as they should do.

Funny VALE, something about Netkar posted in the LFS forum... what do you expect, that we ignore it? Let Netkar have no comparison of another great sim? Surely the thread is about the new screenshots, but one people about LFS in a reply leads it in the wrong direction.

It is not that this isn't wanted, it is annoying to see these threads turn up and have us try and be defenseless in these threads, therefore we leave ourselves to word-to-word combat over various simulations, there is not much else you can do.

That is like putting a Lamborghini in a Ferrari Dealer's showroom.... Ferrari fans would come up to it and talk about what is nice, what is not. Same situation here. Blame the damned thread creator for crying out loud, you'll never get a decent thread about a different sim in another sim's world.

At least this is not as bad as RSC... where RSC fills itself full of GT4 vs. LFS, rFactor vs. LFS, GTR vs. LFS, the list goes on. I grew tired of that, and this thread is nowhere near those moments.

Quote from ajp71 :

LFS's tracks don't look bad at all, but they don't capture an atmosphere like the GPL tracks, there's no reason why they should, they have no history and all look like they've just been built, this isn't a critisism of Eric's artwork, I don't think he ever intended to create historic tracks with such an atmosphere.

No shit! GPL was 67 era... Plus, Eric's work is fantasy tracks, of course they don't have any historic 'edge' feel.

lol that list of tracks you said.. were conversions.. the ORIGINAL tracks from Namie. graphically looked like something from CART precision racing back when i was like.. 8 lol

the tracks themselves though (layout) i think were pretty good though.. one of them was atleast.. cant remember which, havent played netkar in soooo so long

Quote from Tweaker :

It is not that this isn't wanted, it is annoying to see these threads turn up and have us try and be defenseless in these threads, therefore we leave ourselves to word-to-word combat over various simulations, there is not much else you can do.

Who's attacking LFS ... lol illepall
Posting pictures of another game isnt going to do any harm to LFS, so why does everyone turn round and start engaging in "word-to-word combat" lol

Quote from steve :

http://www.drivingitalia.net/articol...software&id=55


must say looking pretty good :eek:

Quote from Tweaker :

Blame the damned thread creator for crying out loud

It's not the thread creators fault, he just seemed to be impressed by the screenshots, its the people that followed, such as yourself!


:uglyhamme

You're not getting the point of my post. Nevermind then.... :rolleyes: This thread has 8 year olds in it remember.

Quote from ajp71 :

Having watched the video I'd have to agree that it doesn't look real. LFS simulates road cars better, but TBH the attempt at single seaters is rather WIP when compared to NK or the N2003 GTP mod.

indeed. thats correct. and thanks for quoting the other sim i participated in making of . gtp mod is indeed the product of over 1 year efforts with 6 months finetuning. it had way more work (and research and testing) than lfs singleseaters. why do i know? nothing the credits of both games wont tell ya.
thanks for aknowledging the other side valid points here and there, its always a refreshing meeting people willing to listen the other side.
peace

Quote from durbster :

Hahahaha! That still bothers you, after all this time!? Didn't you ever wonder why you were the only person who had an issue with it? :spin:

Incomplete software tends to have incomplete elements in it, that's what defines it as incomplete. Slating it for that is beyond ridiculous.

hi durbster. it doesnt bother me cause i dont drive nk. simple as that.
i mentioned it in reply to someone that was saying its driving experience was more realistic. im sure u agree thats a valid point?
incomplete? at 0.99 its incomplete? is the 0.01 thats missing the car upside down?
its not me who does version numbers. also it was never stated officially it was incomplete and that it had all those errors people discovered.
yes he accepts them nowadays, but didnt then, just like so many other things he changed after seeing that the route others followed and he so harshly dissed, became more sucessful.
no harm in changing our opinion and i congratulate him for that. and believe me it wasnt his fanboys that made him do that smart philosofy "tweak".

I expect nKPro to be less compromising than LFS but I'm sure the policies will have been tamed from the approach taken for Namie. The inability to reset, or turn damage off was one thing that I always felt was wrong, for example. It's all very well saying that's because it's a hardcore sim, but when you're learning a new track and the gravel traps and grass doesn't work as they should, it's incredibly frustrating to find yourself sliding towards the wall for the 10th time.

Quote from durbster :

I expect nKPro to be less compromising than LFS but I'm sure the policies will have been tamed from the approach taken for Namie. The inability to reset, or turn damage off was one thing that I always felt was wrong, for example. It's all very well saying that's because it's a hardcore sim, but when you're learning a new track and the gravel traps and grass doesn't work as they should, it's incredibly frustrating to find yourself sliding towards the wall for the 10th time.

If you ask him nicely maybe he´ll put a "They will learn" TM FFB electroshock device into the box. Hardcore sim for hardcore racers.

As appreciative one can be of ajp's fandom, I politely ask the ones reading this thread to not take everything he says about what kunos (nK's coder and main dev) would do or wouldn't do as gospel. That's left to kunos himself and I haven't seen any pamphlets yet proclaiming his policies written by himself.

nKpro's physics model is indeed a complete vehicular physics framework and not tailored towards specific classes or cars. It just happens that kunos is, as he stated in some posts on RSC, basically an open-wheeler fan so most of his energy probably went towards getting access to open-wheeler cars and he didn't bother with tintops. One of the teams working with him is the italian F3 Target Racing team for example.
As the development kit nK|dK is scheduled to be released some time ("2-3 months") after nKpro, tintops or any other car can be included at will.

While there may be similarities to LFS in terms of car choice or focus, nK seems very much its own thing to me. There will neither be AI, nor rain nor complex damage beyond suspension damage as for as I know in the first release but development on those has already progressed and looks like it's going to be just a matter of time.

nK 0.9.9 aka namie, often referred to as the demo is already 3 years old and I think only in so far indicative of nKpro that one might expect the strengths, what is already good about it, to be strengthened more and polished and the weaknesses dimished or eliminated.

I hope everyone interested in sims will give it a fresh, unbiased try and chance to really evaluate if it's to his liking and give honest and fair feedback.

Hope to see you on the track, guys!

Quote from Satorian :

nK 0.9.9 aka namie, often referred to as the demo is already 3 years old and I think only in so far indicative of nKpro that one might expect the strengths, what is already good about it, to be strengthened more and polished and the weaknesses dimished or eliminated.

What you've said is true, but I would like to forget completely about NK Pro, as far as I'm concerned I've been comparing the FO8 in LFS S2 P2 to the F3000 in Netkar 0.99 namie

I just played couple of hours 0.99 namie for the first time. I kinda liked the FF feel as this is this kind of unpolished beta, at least it doesn't feel like ISI/SimBin. The most negative thing is the feel of speed. I thought it was a minor problem in LFS but this is just way too slow. 150 km/h feels like 30 km/h. Changing the FOV doesn't really help. Because of this it's almost impossible to catch the braking points. Well it was fun to test drive some real tracks, altough teh 'Ring version from GPL was buggy as hell.

netKar Pro website is lauching soon:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=239147
http://www.netkar-pro.com

"Professional online racing simulator". They stole our slogan!

Quote from deggis :

"Professional online racing simulator". They stole our slogan!

Nah, LFS is just an "Online Racing Simulator", so were no professionals

Quote from ATHome :

Nah, LFS is just an "Online Racing Simulator", so were no professionals

I know but they still copied it from us.

When I was searching for a update for the netKar Nordschleife GPL conversion I found these:

http://70gtmod.no-ip.com/index.php?showtopic=341
http://forum.racesimcentral.co ... =2386212&postcount=45
http://forum.racesimcentral.co ... =2304809&postcount=26

F*CKING AMAZING! \o/ Pics are from last spring but I've never seen those. Those are from that 70 GT Mod for netKar Pro. Of course it's an unofficial (I mean not licensed) version. Finally we can have a proper and accurate version of the Ring (other than that rather "crappy" and old GPL version).

Those Nurby pics are renders, not in-game screenshots. I'm sure it will look better in the game

Also, I think netKar always had the strap line of "Online Racing Simulator", they just added a Pro to it because this is the pro version.

Quote from durbster :

Also, I think netKar always had the strap line of "Online Racing Simulator", they just added a Pro to it because this is the pro version.

I dunno bout that... I don't even think netKar lived up to having a motto like that... where can you even go online and play people? Nowhere afaik :zombie:

Quote from Tweaker :

I dunno bout that... I don't even think netKar lived up to having a motto like that... where can you even go online and play people? Nowhere afaik :zombie:

No it didn't but that was the original aim and that's where Pro comes in. It is called netKar after all.

From Kunos:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... =2757928&postcount=25

I dream of having a ring like this in LFS

But right now, we just have to wait until S3 is out. Oh man, I wish I could travel in time or just sleep until S3 is with a good unoffical Nordschleife is out

does nobody else think those track screen shots just look a bit 'flat'??

fair enough the track and kerbs look nice, but the barriers and tree look crap.

i dont know how to pin it down, but netkar and many other sims just seem so 2D, especially the environments.

imo this is very important in a game, and create the right/wrong feel for the whole game.

Keeping one eye on the development of NetKar, it has to be said that in terms of the list of features, Netkar looks like it's gonna be the daddies. Of course, having lots of features, and actually being realistic and playable are very different things, but I hope that LFS keeps an eye on the competition - Netkar and rFactor are, gradually, adding some extremely desirable features to their sims (not that LFS isn't, I'm just used to LFS, so my perspective is somewhat different).

The Nordschleife screens posted aren't that great. For one my graphics card ain't going to like them Secondly they are over complicated, I don't want to see that much detail when I'm racing, sure it would be nice to read the writing on the track, but when your driving on it at 150 mph you really aren't going to notice it.

I know some people say the GPL 'ring is 'crap' that's just because you haven't tried it recently with the later updates. The 1970 conversion for N2003 is pretty amazing, although by no means as graphically good as the best GPL addons. Anyway to me the graphics are irrelevant so long as you can get immersed in them. The GTR press demo always used to give me good frame rates and a very detailed image, yet I could never actually read them and just found myself crashing off all the time.

Graphics can go two ways: Letting the user become part of them without to much visual rubbish. I recently tried the original GPL tracks, yep 8 year old graphics, which I can still connect with just like I can with LFS. Obviously I downloaded updates after trying it in original spec, but tbh the updates just make it look nicer on the replays, when your actually in the car it doesn't matter how bad it looks.

The other way is to try and fool the user with GT4 style stunning visuals, yes they can give a sense of being there but your still only looking at a computer screen. IMO super high res everything is not needed.

As for anyone who says the GPL 'ring is crap they really should actually try it again, it's not about flashy graphics it's about the track. Sorry Eric but I'd choose the 'ring over all the LFS tracks anyday

The Netkar conversion of the 'ring was just awful, it was just about ok in geometry, far too bumpy, but the fact you kept seeing over the edge of the world just put me off.

For those who don't love the GPL 'ring I'd say you've either never driven it or you really aren't determined to keep trying and learn it.

Quote from durbster :

Those Nurby pics are renders, not in-game screenshots. I'm sure it will look better in the game

Damn. I didn't read that thread on rscnet.org that well, just fastly scrolled and saw the pics. Actually I saw a post saying it's a render but I confused because someone had just posted an edited picture. But who cares because the ingame version will possibly look even better. Here's the proof that it's really under work for nkPro: http://forum.racesimcentral.co ... =2793558&postcount=60

Those pics really look very screenshot-like but the mip mapping is a bit weird when you closely watch them.

Quote from ajp71 :

The Nordschleife screens posted aren't that great. For one my graphics card ain't going to like them Secondly they are over complicated, I don't want to see that much detail when I'm racing, sure it would be nice to read the writing on the track, but when your driving on it at 150 mph you really aren't going to notice it.

As usually you have really weird opinion. Even the ingame version could look something like those renders those are still far away from super-fancy graphics. So you basicly want that the new remake of the Ring looks graphically like the GPL version remakes?

You should really buy some new hardware and stop whining. I have actually pretty low-end computer too but I don't have any problems running LFS with 4xFSAA/AF.

Quote :

Graphics can go two ways: Letting the user become part of them without to much visual rubbish. I recently tried the original GPL tracks, yep 8 year old graphics, which I can still connect with just like I can with LFS.

Never heard about nostalgia? Give Wolfenstein 3D for someone who has never played it before and guess what he thinks about the graphics.

Quote :

The other way is to try and fool the user with GT4 style stunning visuals, yes they can give a sense of being there but your still only looking at a computer screen. IMO super high res everything is not needed.

I have never played that GT4 Ring but isn't it concerned as the most accurate version? Too bad that the problem is it's only in GT4. This nkPro Ring version could be best version ever, at least on PC.

Quote :

The Netkar conversion of the 'ring was just awful, it was just about ok in geometry, far too bumpy, but the fact you kept seeing over the edge of the world just put me off.

Yup, it was awful because of that. The author has been (afaik same "si3v") working on a far better version... seems like he forgot it and moved to work on the nkPro version.

Good enough for me

http://hem.bredband.net/klafje/track_updates.htm

I know some people may like having the flashest graphics but IMO they are just one of the methods of outputing information to you. Sound and a decent method of input are as important IMO. I'm not whining at all, I personally can play LFS with fairly high graphics settings (bad at starts) and I think LFS does look good, but not as good as these GPL tracks IMO. Yes they are 2D everything, but do you actually ever notice some 3D caravan or spectator and would the time not have been better spent revising the physics?