Quote from kieran20 :

everyone says this but really, 4 wheel drifting does not happen. people complain about holding drifts etc, go get in a car now and go and hold a drift. when you get side ways if you can correct tit you will correct it, but it will be back in line if you do if you dont, you get speared off.

In real life, or in LFS, If you turn the steering wheel in opposite direction of where the car's nose tends to turn when rear end is sliding, the car actually starts to straighten out.

Couldn't resist!

I don't think that the rFactor Sauber sounds better whilst you drive (samples... shudder), and whilst the 3D model is more detailed, the graphics engine makes it look rubbish. And the handling is pants in rFactor (in my opinion as a non-F1 driver).

I'll stick with LFS. Not that I drive either Sauber much as the racing is crap.

Edit: I don't see rFactor improving. The mods are a little more polished, but most that I have tried are still fatally flawed as driving machines. I won't uninstall it, and I'll keep trying it periodically for a few hours at a time. But I just cannot see why ANYONE likes it, having driven real cars or not.

Quote from Tweaker :

Yet time and time again, when you can so easily pass this comment to try and stop an argument in its tracks, it fails to recognize the fact that the word "finished" is such an overstatement with how current development is progressing, and if you look at the overall value of truly 'waiting' until it is 'finished'. LFS will always be a 'package' you have to look at. S2 Final seems to be nearing more and more, and what else are we getting that is new besides the usual grooming of this old cat?

Have we had any new track environments in the past 3 years? No. Have the cars been given more external detail, so they don't look like matchbox cars? No. Has Scawen been doing a good job keeping this simulation alive? Yes, indeed. Other than that, the only hope for this game to not drag on and on with the same old stuff is to make it look better... and give us some new tracks. Then you get the usual "oh that is what S3 is for" crap. Gimme a break, I'll probably have a family to take care of by then. Quite a long outlook.

What does this have to do with the BF1? Everything. The BF1 looks rushed, hasn't been touched since, looks terrible, and can be improved in so many ways, including the physics. Furthermore, if you put it versus rFactor, you can see the obvious differences that LFS falls short with... no matter how many times you can say what is finished or unfinished, it stills says a lot about efforts. And to be so ignorant and think LFS looks fine already as it is, you should really explore around more.

How impressive do you think S2 is really going to be? How full of shit are you?
(not directed at you, but a serious note)

EDIT: I am sure all of us here get a good LFS fix every now and then, I do too. It's just that there are certain things which are getting older and older... Imagine from an outsider's perspective: It's like a senile old man saying his work-in-progress wood carving is superior to anything else out there. Keep carving old man!!!

Good post Tweaker!

The thing is, Rfactor is improving at a much faster rate then LFS is. There are good mods out there with decent physics and they will keep on coming. Mainly what keeps me in LFS is the ease of pick-up races, something that doesnt really work in Rfactor. If LFS doesnt improve, soon we'll be stuck with something like GPL, great phisics, but just too outdated.

I'll never understand people who say rFactor has better graphics than LFS. Hi res, high poly =/ good graphics. Or how come GT4 at 720 x 288 still looks more life like (or maybe TV like) than just about any PC racer today? But LFS is definately closer than rFactor. Things like resolution are way overrated otherwise watching F1 on TV would be horrible.

And I can't hear the "OMG everyone is catching up" argument anymore after all these years. There will be a sim some day that will be better overall than LFS but if you look at how ISI, nK, and DR have come along since the last time they were "about to overtake LFS" then I don't think there's any reason to worry at this moment in time. Some may be better in some points but there's more to it than that. I agree that LFS needs some new tracks though, preferably real ones.

rFactor is NOT improving Lococost! LFS is improving slowly, like the gearbox improvements we have now. rFactors base code has been the same for years, most of it comes from F1 2000 which came out in 1999..

The quality of the mods might improve a bit but the actual physics code has basically remained the same for years.

I play both LFS and rFactor and both have considerable flaws still. You'd be surprised that rFactors devs *ARE* aware of the tyre physics flaws; so lets hope they eventually pull off a rF 2.0. Until then however, we won't see changes.

With LFS its likely that there will be some changes to the physics as time goes on..

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

rFactor is NOT improving Lococost! LFS is improving slowly, like the gearbox improvements we have now. rFactors base code has been the same for years, most of it comes from F1 2000 which came out in 1999..

I always thought that the first in the series was Sports Car GT?

Well I use R-Factor out of fun, and that's all it is for me, fun. I mainly drive F1 1979 mod also online, I'm doing my own sets (like I do in LFS too). I know you're gonna think, wth has that to do with the BMW Sauber, well it has nothing to do with it. But I wanted to talk about driving on the limit in both sims.
No matter what I did in R-Factor in terms of controllers and or setups, I never "felt" the car (even with real Feel). It's just a matter of how fast I can react to the visuals rather than to what I feel on the steering wheel. In LFS it's the other way around, first I "feel" what the car is about to do and then I see it. Which means in LFS I can react to the car rather then to the visuals. And in that matters I like LFS over R-Factor.

Quote from kieran20 :

the mojority of lfs players are biased against rfactor. they have only given it a try once or twice, and because it feels so different to lfs they say its rubbish. im sorry but its just not.

I've played rF quite a bit offline with the better mods (Neil's Corvette and the W196 are the only mods I've really liked) and I've tried to like mods like the '79 mod, but none of the cars will slide like the real things, it's all this grip until it falls off nonsense and the GTL conversion seems to be let down by a total lack of body roll and realistic suspension movement. I'd really love those cars to be accurate but for me they're not, the fact some aliens can be quick in them doesn't mean they're realistic at all. I used to race in N2003 road course leagues and only moved over and found LFS when people started moving over to rF, in fact the original N2003 league ran both in parallel for a couple of years because so many people either couldn't play or refused to play rF.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

rFactor is NOT improving Lococost! LFS is improving slowly, like the gearbox improvements we have now. rFactors base code has been the same for years, most of it comes from F1 2000 which came out in 1999..

The quality of the mods might improve a bit but the actual physics code has basically remained the same for years.

OK Niels, sorry, I expressed myself wrong then, I meant that the good newer mods seemed to handle better, for me that's improvement.

For the 'feel' thing, you'll find as many Rf drivers saying LFS 'feels' wrong as you have LFS players saying RF 'feels' wrong, but anyway, just wanted to backup what Tweaker said, now I'm out before this turns into another useless Rf-LFS bashing thread.

Unfortunately you'll see more rFactor players saying that the Mod of the Moment is teh bestest than LFS drivers believing them. Then, 2 months later, the same people are saying the same mod is crap. Even though it's the same.

I found that with F3, Meganes, a Caterham mod... Of course, they've all been updated since then. But the "so good it's included in rFactor" F3 mod is, simply, rubbish.