Its crazy the way this forum is evolving.
Everyone thinks they have the solution for realism. This is a game!! If you want realism then go race in real tracks with real cars. Oh by the way, i drive in cockpit view only...

edit: let them enjoy the game as it is. i dont think follow view is better for racing, not for me. i dont like the way some ppl say they know the secret to enjoy lfs at maximum

Quote from tiagolapa :

Its crazy the way this forum is evolving.
Everyone thinks they have the solution for realism. This is a game!! If you want realism then go race in real tracks with real cars. Oh by the way, i drive in cockpit view only...

I drive real car on real track, problem is that there are no tracks at winter, there is snow and ice so those are closed

This is online racing simulator, aim is towards realism in racing and if you don't like it, then I'm afraid future development won't be very good from your point of view.

edit: Yeah, some people like to take away force cockpit view, they should indeed let me enjoy simulator way it is now

Quote from Blackout :

Ok, after you've done that you can compare with a second experiment. Train two pigeons to carry video camera behind your car, paint all your windows black and drive it with a monitor in front of you.

Which one seems more realistic?

We all know what is more realistic and what is less realistic, but that's not the point here. You are selfishly demanding to downgrade the experience of 7500 (25%*30000) people because they have an unquantifiable advantage over you. Let's be honest, the advantage is not that big. And make no mistake about it, you are pushing your view on the minority... Demanding a change that will drastically affect how thousands of players experience LFS so that your gaming experience could improve by 0,2%. I can understand you views and I can sympathise with them but seeing your jealousy and egoism on display here, you mocking people with your silly comparisons of some pigeons and black windows makes me want to say to you a big F*CK YOU!

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

So let me get this straight, you spend this whole time arguing here because you prefer the cockpit view. However, since you think others gain an advantage over you due to useing other views you want this view banned from the whole game so that you can enjoy your prefered view without losing out on any competitiveness. And this competitiveness is not even quantified. We've seen a couple of screen shots and we can all imagine certain benefits. And you really think these benefits are so huge that you feel it is necessary to demand for a change that will affect 25% of 30 000 people (= 7 500 people btw).

So basically it boils down to you lobbying to ruin the experience of 7500 people because they have an unquantified benefit over you. That's pretty egotistic.

I'm all for realism, but if you take the fun out of it then you are downgrading the experience in my opinion.

No, I just tried to note that saying cockpit view is equally unrealistic than chase isn't right.

I don't care what view people use, however I can't stand it's defended and claimed as realistic as the cockpit view. I mean come on, simulator? Never have heard anyone ever play GTR from chase view, never.

It's the same thing with controllers, mouse and keyboard drivers complaining their controllers aren't supported well enough anymore because they have lift while shifting. They are not a method of controlling an automobile in the same way you don't fly behind your car while driving. I do not understand how this concept of more realistic view can be that hard to understand.

And where the hell is the hardcore people when you need some support? Come on..the volvo man already turned his coat..bloody swedes.

edit.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

We all know what is more realistic and what is less realistic, but that's not the point here. You are selfishly demanding to downgrade the experience of 7500 (25%*30000) people because they have an unquantifiable advantage over you. Let's be honest, the advantage is not that big. And make no mistake about it, you are pushing your view on the minority... Demanding a change that will drastically affect how thousands of players experience LFS so that your gaming experience could improve by 0,2%. I can understand you views and I can sympathise with them but seeing your jealousy and egoism on display here, you mocking people with your silly comparisons of some pigeons and black windows makes me want to say to you a big F*CK YOU!

Smooth edit, I would've stick by with the first version. It was much more nicer. I even bothered to quote it.

I'm off this thread now.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

We all know what is more realistic and what is less realistic, but that's not the point here. You are selfishly demanding to downgrade the experience of 7500 (25%*30000) people because they have an unquantifiable advantage over you.

Why those 7500 can't race together?

And we are not going to downgrade anything, it is you who are by demanding force cockpit view to be removed if I understand your intentions correctly?

And why you are so angry that you have to use dirty words? We can discuss subject politely even opinions might differ as we are intelligent beings, right?

Quote from fujiwara :

Guess when we will have the <feature> "Force wheel controller"....

Would be a good feature to be honest

Well i totally understand Blackout's post. That it is more realistic to have a in-car view.
But for me tbh, the incarview like we have it now is lacking certain things for me to be driveable. And as i will never be able to solve these things at my home/office pc i prefere chase view.

I cant feel the acclerations in certain directions from the cockpit view as i can in a real car. So if i cant "feel" them i will at least see them (chase view).
Then there is the limited view i have with my 17'' monitor, which i too cant solve or make it halfway realistic untill i have like 3 monitors sitting here on my desk.
For those reasons i drive the chase view.
That it has certain advantages and disadvantages were already mentioned by myself and others.

If people want to split the lfs community by setting their servers to FCV feel free to do so. My personal opinion is it wont be for advantage of the LFS-Online-Racing-Community untill its forced by the masterserver, to split up the online racers by this.

I think that it is just one step on your career as sim racer, probably one starts with keyboard/mouse/gamepad, then gets wheel, perhaps something else then to get more real feeling, after some time comes better display among other things and then simracers sees things from different point of view, then it is good there is possibility to get better feel out from it and that includes having others near similar thoughts, ways and equipment on same track.

In every stage of career one finds best racing from those that thinks similar way and that of course relates to what equipment is used and this relates to what options are wanted to.

I think everyone wins with such options, it is not a loss even very small amount of sim racers might feel so.

Quote from Doorman :

There aren't any 'distances' in LFS, you simply look as far as your monitor.

sorry bud, you're so wrong. if this were tru, why does lfs (and most other racing games/sims) have marker boards leading up to corners? is it so that the driver can guage the distance to the corner? or is it because there on the RL track so the game must have it too?

Quote from Blackout :

..And where the hell is the hardcore people when you need some support? Come on..the volvo man already turned his coat..bloody swedes.

We're here, holding your coat.
What I find amazing about this perennial argument is that out of 3-400ish servers, only a dozen, tops, have enabled FCV.
So chase view jockeys are being denied the use of 12 servers! If anything we are the put upon minority.

Quote from JTbo :

I drive real car on real track, problem is that there are no tracks at winter, there is snow and ice so those are closed

This is online racing simulator, aim is towards realism in racing and if you don't like it, then I'm afraid future development won't be very good from your point of view.

edit: Yeah, some people like to take away force cockpit view, they should indeed let me enjoy simulator way it is now

Hi. Dont get me wrong. Im very happy with latest LFS development. I love this game.
I dont see how driving in follow mode can be an advantage over cockpit drivers like we. Personally i cant drive the car with that view, and to tell the truth i think its funny how someone can drive a sim with that view mode.
The thing i dont agree is this kind of reality police saying people the way they should play the game
Happy holidays

-> First of all, I just want to make clear that I'm for the realism in LFS, it is a simulator, and not an arcadish game with pretty shinning licensed cars, and a crappy feeling...

-I'm for the improvements in the phisics, no matter if it makes it harder to drive.

-I'm for the new clutch "system". That makes LFS more realistic, even if some have to adapt the driving style to save the clutch for a long race.

-I'm for other improvements like oil and water heating, mechanical failures, etc. etc...

Now, please do not confuse things!
An option to force drivers to use a designated view, is not a way to make LFS more realistic!

Servers and Leagues using this, are just pseudo-ellitists - There are probably drivers using the forced cockpit view and driving with keyboard or mouse... how realistic is that?!

I do not even use chase view, I use a "near cockpit view" -I explain- a costumised view from inside the car, but it goes out of range from the default cockpit view, and is more comfortable to drive with, shows the two mirrors, and is still a cockpit view. I cannot compete in servers or leagues with forced cockpit view because of that?

Do not get confused with improvements trough realism and discriminatory options that will only be negative to the LFS comunity.

Quote from JTbo :

Why those 7500 can't race together?

They are not organised. You know your solution is not a real solution but an excuse.

Quote from JTbo :

And we are not going to downgrade anything, it is you who are by demanding force cockpit view to be removed if I understand your intentions correctly?

Forced cockpit view is a limitation. You take away a limitation, you add more options. If you switch on a limitation then you are taking away options. It's really that simple.

Quote from JTbo :

And why you are so angry that you have to use dirty words? We can discuss subject politely even opinions might differ as we are intelligent beings, right?

The dirty words were directed at Blackout mainly for his mocking post. They have no business with you.

Quote from eRaptor :

Now, please do not confuse things!
An option to force drivers to use a designated view, is not a way to make LFS more realistic!

I agree, not everyone agrees that the current cockpit view is the most realistic one.

Quote from dadge :

sorry bud, you're so wrong. if this were tru, why does lfs (and most other racing games/sims) have marker boards leading up to corners? is it so that the driver can guage the distance to the corner? or is it because there on the RL track so the game must have it too?

What? So how does floating 6' behind your car help you gauge distance? Your eyes are focusing 2-3 feet in front of you and it doesn't matter which part of the screen or which view you're looking at.

Maybe you should ask then cockpit view controls to be extended and not to say, that those that prefer to race from cockpit view so that all others use it too, must loose this option and possibility?
I think old thread for this subject was just fine

Quote from eRaptor :

-> First of all, I just want to make clear that I'm for the realism in LFS, it is a simulator, and not an arcadish game with pretty shinning licensed cars, and a crappy feeling...

-I'm for the improvements in the phisics, no matter if it makes it harder to drive.

-I'm for the new clutch "system". That makes LFS more realistic, even if some have to adapt the driving style to save the clutch for a long race.

-I'm for other improvements like oil and water heating, mechanical failures, etc. etc...

Now, please do not confuse things!
An option to force drivers to use a designated view, is not a way to make LFS more realistic!

Servers and Leagues using this, are just pseudo-ellitists - There are probably drivers using the forced cockpit view and driving with keyboard or mouse... how realistic is that?!

I do not even use chase view, I use a "near cockpit view" -I explain- a costumised view from inside the car, but it goes out of range from the default cockpit view, and is more comfortable to drive with, shows the two mirrors, and is still a cockpit view. I cannot compete in servers or leagues with forced cockpit view because of that?

Do not get confused with improvements trough realism and discriminatory options that will only be negative to the LFS comunity.

I understand what you are saying, but this has been debated endlessly. If you feel your view should be allowed to fall within the "allowed views" when FCV is enabled, then post a screen of the view that you use in a few cars, so that (perhaps) scawen and co. could be pursuaded.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

The dirty words were directed at Blackout mainly for his mocking post. They have no business with you.

Still not an excuse - hundreds may read your post, many of them may be children, and you think its OK to be foul mouthed? - as far as I know there is no option to switch it off.

You may discuss, you may argue, you may even get angry, but bad language has no place on a public forum - even if it is implied.

every league has it´s own rules. and if you can´t deal with them, look for other leagues! if leagues would suddenly loose like 50% of their drivers because they use views like you, i guess they won´t come up with forced cockpit rules.

so if that´s a problem for you, why don´t you just go find a league that doesnt care which view you use? or even better, make your own league, have your own rules!


edit: and yeah, i´m pretty sure as well that there´s an old thread about FCV already...

Quote from Doorman :

What? So how does floating 6' behind your car help you gauge distance? Your eyes are focusing 2-3 feet in front of you and it doesn't matter which part of the screen or which view you're looking at.

read what the guy said. he has a dissabillity in his vision and custom view helps him guage the distances in the game. i know that i can't argue against that because i do not have this dissabillity. but you seem the think you know better so you tell him how to get round his dissabillity using only cockpit view. custom view is different from chase view.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

They are not organised. You know your solution is not a real solution but an excuse.



Forced cockpit view is a limitation. You take away a limitation, you add more options. If you switch on a limitation then you are taking away options. It's really that simple.

Those that use forced cockpit view are not either organized, there will be leagues using that and also leagues that won't be using that.

It would be limitation to remove that option, it would limit ability to choose what kind of racers join to server, (if we use bit loosely term 'what kind of' here) those that use cockpit view and those that don't use it.

Quote from dadge :

read what the guy said. he has a dissabillity in his vision and custom view helps him guage the distances in the game. i know that i can't argue against that because i do not have this dissabillity. but you seem the think you know better so you tell him how to get round his dissabillity using only cockpit view.

What if dissability also would cause problems when racing IRL? Then it would be just realistic to cause problems in sim, don't you think?

But that is why force cockpit view is an option as he can still use other view, removing it would not give him any more help for driving

Everyone should play LFS the way they are used too . I myself always drive in the cockpit view , for me its just more realistic then any other views . So why go through all this trouble ? Just let LFS stay LFS , and let the racers drive the way they like .

Quote from eimer_ :

every league has it´s own rules. and if you can´t deal with them, look for other leagues! if leagues would suddenly loose like 50% of their drivers because they use views like you, i guess they won´t come up with forced cockpit rules.

so if that´s a problem for you, why don´t you just go find a league that doesnt care which view you use? or even better, make your own league, have your own rules!


edit: and yeah, i´m pretty sure as well that there´s an old thread about FCV already...

+1

I tried to read your post, but could only look at your avatar. Sorry.

that's true bud, but we don't know if he even drives IRL. but we do know he plays LFS on custom view