Any chances to punish those who disabled restrictions earlier on UFbR...? Read here. I know that X-system was down at that time, but there´s a replay on my HDD.
It's almost funny. Redline seem to have the worst reputation on here for doing everything that everybody has asked or spoken about.
On Redline Racing servers, you get banned if you cause an accident and don't apologize. They will go away and check the replay for a good 5/10 minutes so they know exactly what happened and who was at fault.
The rules at Redline are enforced at the highest level, yet people moan their asses off at that?! "I got banned for no reason" When I was infact in the same race and I saw everything they done.
People need to work out if they want strongly enforced rules, or slack rules. They moan at the ones that are enforced 100% then moan about the ones that are not enforced.
This may seem pointless (as everything apart from CTRA is
) but the one reason I have not joined the Redline team yet is because I know my reputation (if I have one) will be left in tatters because of the team I wouldn't mind joining if the opportunity arrived. Yet, if I sold websites, I would join UKCT/CTRA and be given a God like status. Yet, in the world of wreckers and general idiots in this race sim of ours, I would be looked down on if I joined Redline, who enforce their rules with a punch, but I would be looked up on if I join UKCT/CTRA, who quite clearly lack in the enforcing rules department.
Justice? I think not.
On Redline Racing servers, you get banned if you cause an accident and don't apologize. They will go away and check the replay for a good 5/10 minutes so they know exactly what happened and who was at fault.
The rules at Redline are enforced at the highest level, yet people moan their asses off at that?! "I got banned for no reason" When I was infact in the same race and I saw everything they done.
People need to work out if they want strongly enforced rules, or slack rules. They moan at the ones that are enforced 100% then moan about the ones that are not enforced.
This may seem pointless (as everything apart from CTRA is
) but the one reason I have not joined the Redline team yet is because I know my reputation (if I have one) will be left in tatters because of the team I wouldn't mind joining if the opportunity arrived. Yet, if I sold websites, I would join UKCT/CTRA and be given a God like status. Yet, in the world of wreckers and general idiots in this race sim of ours, I would be looked down on if I joined Redline, who enforce their rules with a punch, but I would be looked up on if I join UKCT/CTRA, who quite clearly lack in the enforcing rules department.Justice? I think not.
Being a german I´m very sensitive about the Nazi-word. It´s for sure a very strong word and should not get out of context for gods sake!
BTT:
It´s very clear for me: Their server, their rules. Love it or leave it.
That is of course the main reason why I never will join any Redline-server. Simply because after two years being involved in LFS-racing and LFS-forum/community I can´t see a straight line in Redline´s so called rules. Take a look. No affront made, it´s a fact.
CTRA, on the other hand, is much more clearer, the rules are few but simple. The report-interface is simply the best in the known universe these days (except Arkon #3). There´s no need of an admin staying 24/7 on the server to judge over human stupidity.
What happened today:
X-system went down and several morons disabled restrictions on UFbR (replay on my HDD) and possible on CTRA3. That´s what I and the majority call cheating. TBO I highly doubt that a single person on CTRA3 had the idea to go on with a GTR with a silver/gold-license, just because he/she is using commom sense and is fully aware about the punishment...
We germans have a saying for that: "Stupidity does not protect for punishes"!
(Holy shit, this must be my longest post...)
Edit:
That´s true: Checked your stats on CTRA. You have no idea whats going on here, so please be quiet!
[edit] @ The General Lee [/edit] I'm curious.. in what way do you feel that we lack in the enforcement department? It seems extraordinary, to me, that with the system we've created and deployed, someone can actually believe that we are lacking in the rule enforcement department.
How much time have you spent using CTRA? How much with the reporting system? Is there some problem with the way that the reporting system works? Does it fall short? If so, in what way? Is there something to your statement, or is it just some more rhetoric?
How much time have you spent using CTRA? How much with the reporting system? Is there some problem with the way that the reporting system works? Does it fall short? If so, in what way? Is there something to your statement, or is it just some more rhetoric?
Anyone who does that should be banned.
I find it really hard to report people, especially on the baby_r server. It's an entry level server and as such we are bound to see new people coming in and not understranding the "CTRA way". I think it would be a shame for new people to get banned for not understanding the way its run....
I do think that with baby_r changing to Bronze and above this will ease some things and also make it much more fun for the people that have achieved bronze
I do think that with baby_r changing to Bronze and above this will ease some things and also make it much more fun for the people that have achieved bronze
You missed the very first race on it. 
And it´s no more an entry-server, you need bronze to be part of the fun.
And it´s no more an entry-server, you need bronze to be part of the fun.
FTR, we have a policy of educating newer drivers with simple warnings etc, rather than banning them outright. There are rare situations where it's quite clear that a driver's sole interest is in disrupting and wrecking, but even these usually only get a mid-term ban for their first offence.
You should report offences for the content of the offence. We always make admin decisions in proportion to the driver's intention and experience
btw.. regarding last evening's outage.. I can confirm that no individual who won races by removing UF-BR restrictions will keep any points earned during that period of time.
This is because the system was down, and it's the system that adds the points
When the system falls over, CTRA servers behave in the same way as any other public server. Perhaps more like Practice Mode than anything. No points are earned, and effectively no CTRA rules are broken until the system is restarted. With a little bit of luck, some people were even inspired by the UFR to work harder towards their Silver licences, so they can head for the GT2 server
This is because the system was down, and it's the system that adds the points
When the system falls over, CTRA servers behave in the same way as any other public server. Perhaps more like Practice Mode than anything. No points are earned, and effectively no CTRA rules are broken until the system is restarted. With a little bit of luck, some people were even inspired by the UFR to work harder towards their Silver licences, so they can head for the GT2 server
A lot of people on there at the time were inspired to act like a bunch of complete cocks
VoiD, I do apologize. I obviously forgot where I was or something, I just kind of said it without thinking of the deeper meaning behind that word and the damage it could cause. Again, I am sorry.
I admit, I don't play on CTRA very much at all. In fact, I don't even need to look at my stats, because are know there barely is any. But I have done some laps, and I have spent most of those few laps being rammed off the road. I also spent a week with someone who plays non-stop on CTRA. I may not have driven there, but I have watched someone race there pretty much all day, every day for a week. He is a high flyer, and I watched 8/10 races being wrecked by an idiot.
Very little, racing. But I do have a well enough knowledge to steer clear knowing I will be taken out.
Compared to the racing I've done there. A lot. Compared to the hardcore fan boys, pretty much zero.
Your reporting system is all well and good, but talk about locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. That racer could be on the same server all night, causing the havoc all night till an admin bans them. Most servers have plain and simple admining techniques. Vote kick/ban, admins policing the server and so on. I understand you guys n' gals have lives, a job (well, Sam doesn't he is working full bore on CTRA) family and so on, but don't the other admins of other servers?
This whole thread is full of claims of the above lacking. 95% of my post in this thread are based on what I have read, the other 5% is what I know from my own experience.
This is part of what my post is about. 2 days to ban someone?! Come on Sam, 2 days is a long time for a wrecker or general idiot to carry on doing what they are doing. 2 hours is an annoying amount of time, but 2 days is edging towards taking the mick. VoiD even put a thumbs up after it, after reading his other post, I dont think it was sarcasm, but he obviously seems quite pleased with the order of service he has received. Me? Doesn't do it for me to be honest. Hence, I'm not on your server, and why I'm posting.
Please Sam, I really hope you don't see this as a dig to you, CTRA, UKCT or anything you or UKCT has done for the LFS community, because it really isn't. I love, despite my comments, what you have done for the community.
But I am a firm believer in respect. Respect goes a long way, further than friendship, you can hate someone, but you can respect them. You can disagree with everything that person believes in, but you can still respect them more than anyone else you know. As the saying goes, respect isn't bought, it's given.
I have a huge amount of respect for you Sam, I like you as well, I don't dislike you at all. I also have a huge amount of respect to anyone who does any behind the scenes work on the CTRA system. I would like some kind of respect from you. You don't know me from Adam, but just an ounce of respect is all it takes.*
Like I said earlier, I would love to join Redline Racing. I enjoy racing in the FOX and the FBM. They host many servers that I enjoy racing on. No dis-respect to the CTRA Single Seater server, but I would rather race not win points for a license. If the chance arose, I would like to join Redline Racing. But then, any respect for me that anyone had would disappear right in front of my eyes and after reading some of your posts, whatever respect you do have for me would be gone in an instant. In actual fact this would probably stop me joining Redline Racing. They seem to be hated for enforcing their rules with a punch. Yet, have a report system that takes 2 days to ban someone (give or take) and you get the utmost respect from every man and his dog.
I hope, for my sake that you can see past this as "just another rant/dig/moan" because it isn't. I hope that you see the real meaning behind it.
*After reading this back, it sounds like I am moaning you don't pay me any respect. I am not. You have not really been given the chance to show me any respect, so like I said, this also isn't a moan.
Mucho respeto, Sam. Mucho respeto.
No sweat mate
I think (and if I'm wrong, I trust anyone familiar with the CTRA's basic standards will correct me) that you have to understand that the people who race in CTRA have an established and very high expectation when in our servers. This expectation, that regular CTRA drivers have, may be seriously different from the expectations they have of another public server. While there's a bit of a rant going on here, it's because there *may* have been a deviation from an already huge standard of behaviour. Having read over the thread, and looked at some replays from the same time-frame, I'm personally satisfied that the problem is very much a case of someone having something to get off their chest, far more than it is about an actual issue of driving standards. There has been an issue, specifically in the UF-BR server, and that has been properly and fairly addressed.
As far as CTRA admining is concerned, we have some very strong and fundamental principles. What we will never accept is admining from the driving seat. We will never accept that an instant ban is, in any way, better than a reviewed replay from an objective position, after the fact and taking into consideration *all* factors. Given the choice between the two, we will *never* accept racing-admin. When I race on the CTRA, if I have an issue with another driver, I will file a report like anyone else. I will *never* handle that report myself, because I cannot be impartial. These are just some of the principles upon which the CTRA is built.
I have a replay, which was sent to me for a laugh a week or two ago, purely because the admining in the replay was so absolutely offensive that it was effectively comedy. I won't name the server, nor will I name the admin. I will PM you a link to the replay, and ask you to watch it. It's simply known among the community as the "Bosse incident".
I will also include a fairly random link to an example of one of our reports. All of our reports are filed and the replays are kept as permanent records. (Around 20GB so far). I'm not asking for a response, either here or by PM. I just want to try and convey to you what it is we're trying to achieve with the CTRA, and exactly what it is that we're *not* willing to accept.
Respect to ya
[edit] btw, the person who was banned after 2 days was not what I would consider a wrecker. The last wrecker we had in a CTRA server must have been a good 7 weeks ago, and was dealt with pretty well immediately. If someone is actively wrecking, you can bet yer bum one of the admins hears about it within a minute or two, and the problem is addressed.
I think (and if I'm wrong, I trust anyone familiar with the CTRA's basic standards will correct me) that you have to understand that the people who race in CTRA have an established and very high expectation when in our servers. This expectation, that regular CTRA drivers have, may be seriously different from the expectations they have of another public server. While there's a bit of a rant going on here, it's because there *may* have been a deviation from an already huge standard of behaviour. Having read over the thread, and looked at some replays from the same time-frame, I'm personally satisfied that the problem is very much a case of someone having something to get off their chest, far more than it is about an actual issue of driving standards. There has been an issue, specifically in the UF-BR server, and that has been properly and fairly addressed.
As far as CTRA admining is concerned, we have some very strong and fundamental principles. What we will never accept is admining from the driving seat. We will never accept that an instant ban is, in any way, better than a reviewed replay from an objective position, after the fact and taking into consideration *all* factors. Given the choice between the two, we will *never* accept racing-admin. When I race on the CTRA, if I have an issue with another driver, I will file a report like anyone else. I will *never* handle that report myself, because I cannot be impartial. These are just some of the principles upon which the CTRA is built.
I have a replay, which was sent to me for a laugh a week or two ago, purely because the admining in the replay was so absolutely offensive that it was effectively comedy. I won't name the server, nor will I name the admin. I will PM you a link to the replay, and ask you to watch it. It's simply known among the community as the "Bosse incident".
I will also include a fairly random link to an example of one of our reports. All of our reports are filed and the replays are kept as permanent records. (Around 20GB so far). I'm not asking for a response, either here or by PM. I just want to try and convey to you what it is we're trying to achieve with the CTRA, and exactly what it is that we're *not* willing to accept.
Respect to ya
[edit] btw, the person who was banned after 2 days was not what I would consider a wrecker. The last wrecker we had in a CTRA server must have been a good 7 weeks ago, and was dealt with pretty well immediately. If someone is actively wrecking, you can bet yer bum one of the admins hears about it within a minute or two, and the problem is addressed.
Thanks for the reply Sam. I actually got out of bed to see if you had replied 
Obviously after your recent reply, it seems we, as everyone does, have different expectations on how servers should be admined. Each server has its own rules, each server also has its own way of dealing with pain in the ears. For me, when an admin is not around, a vote ban will have to suffice, if I or anyone else believes that what they were doing deserves longer than just the '24 hour bug' then I will go to the teams forums, armed with replays. In this field, CTRA's report feature saves me or others going to the CTRA forums. If a server admin is about, then of course it gets brought to their attention.
Like most things, no matter which way you choose to admin your server, there will always be pros and cons. With thje knowledge you have, I don't need to list them as I'm sure you know them all.
I would really appreciate those replays. After having this discussion, I can see how I only have a 1 field view as it were. I have done a few thousand miles, but a majority of those have been spent on rather my teams servers or racing on a certain teams servers (I think you know who) so a small incite on other admining ways, like CTRA and this so called Bosse incident would maybe widen my view a little.
I thank you for the discussion but I really must be off to bed now. I have to be out the door before 8am.
I hope there is no bad blood between us, considering some of the things I have said.
Obviously after your recent reply, it seems we, as everyone does, have different expectations on how servers should be admined. Each server has its own rules, each server also has its own way of dealing with pain in the ears. For me, when an admin is not around, a vote ban will have to suffice, if I or anyone else believes that what they were doing deserves longer than just the '24 hour bug' then I will go to the teams forums, armed with replays. In this field, CTRA's report feature saves me or others going to the CTRA forums. If a server admin is about, then of course it gets brought to their attention.
Like most things, no matter which way you choose to admin your server, there will always be pros and cons. With thje knowledge you have, I don't need to list them as I'm sure you know them all
.I would really appreciate those replays. After having this discussion, I can see how I only have a 1 field view as it were. I have done a few thousand miles, but a majority of those have been spent on rather my teams servers or racing on a certain teams servers (I think you know who
) so a small incite on other admining ways, like CTRA and this so called Bosse incident would maybe widen my view a little.I thank you for the discussion but I really must be off to bed now. I have to be out the door before 8am.
I hope there is no bad blood between us, considering some of the things I have said.
None at all
Sleep well!Well, if I file an appeal (which I did just recently) and get an admin response, it would be nice to respond back again, rather than it being a done deal. There is more I'd like to say, not to argue on the ruling, but to reinforce the situation, which I did not get to state in my first appeal message.
Hint: Look at a few race replays before and after (forget when it was) the reported incident of me, and you make your call on who should get penalized........
Quite frankly, I think the reporting is starting to become somewhat of a "befriend the admins" tool... so those people can have their way. I truly thought it was for SERIOUS race incidents... but now it seems people's interpretation of one's driving mistakes is just a game of fighting with reports to try and get people banned. Personally, it is NOT fun for knowing you've done quite well coming and going on CTRA... to then find an admin message that says you have a report against you -- and ultimately not have a fair say of the story at all. Huge turnoff, coming from someone (me) who is NICE enough not to be cocky and report people.... because I can accept that accidents happen.
I don't play often on CTRA, but it does feel very uninviting to be shafted by self-proclaimed "report warriors", who can't even drive cleanly themselves.
You do know that revenge wrecking is not allowed?
On the voting for a ban. I does not work on any server where I have seen it.
An example: Two people (A and B) have an incident. Let's say it was B's fault. B quickly votes to ban A and calls him a crasher. A tries to defend himself but still everyone presses "1". A gets banned.
Is it fair to ban the innocent person just because the quilty one was faster to start the vote?
I never said anything about revenge wrecking? And why would I do such a thing?
Your hint of looking at the other replays seemed like you were justifying some actions you had taken.
Sorry if I got it wrong.
Sorry if I got it wrong.
Tweak, best thing to do is PM "do0f". The reason we changed to an appeal-once setup is because some drivers regarded the appeal button as some kind of green light to try to negotiate their penalties down. I realise that that isn't the case for you, at all, so the best thing to do is go straight to the boss and PM do0f directly.
[edit] Tweak, I've just realised something that may be pivotal to your perception. The person who raised the report in question was *NOT* the person you had the incident with. It's in no way a revenge report (which we do handle as revenge reports, btw), but an observed incident reported.
[edit] Tweak, I've just realised something that may be pivotal to your perception. The person who raised the report in question was *NOT* the person you had the incident with. It's in no way a revenge report (which we do handle as revenge reports, btw), but an observed incident reported.
(VoiD)
DELETED
by VoiD
That's absolutely 100% the issue that we wanted to address, with our system. Our feeling is that it is *never* okay to ban an innocent driver.Here's a quick history lesson...
Way back when UKCT was still called TeamCCUK, we ran a very popular FOX server. It ran SO City Classic, all day every day. Vote-banning was enabled, and it became clear that way more than 50% of the people vote-banned off the track were either 50% responsible for a racing accident, or were completely innocent. To us, that kind of number was absolutely unacceptable.
We began to work on addressing that problem by disabling vote-banning, and introducing a web-based reporting system. This, ultimately, became the basis for a thing called the Wrecker Barricade.
There were failings in the Barricade too. Some of the failings were collossal, but we learned massive lessons, and we used all the knowledge we'd gained from that experience, and combined it with a lot of real-world race stewarding experience and knowledge when we built the X-System.
Honestly, I think we're close to cracking it. But as we always have, we always will want to improve things if short-falls are found. But I can say one thing for sure.. we are a million miles away from power-wielding racing admins and vote-banning, today, and we believe we're a lot better for it!
:rolleyes:
What a load.
SamH has already addressed these points in an earlier post. The very reason the web-based system exists is so that 'revenge reports' can be analyzed by an unbiased third party and the appropriate action be taken, rather than immediate bannination as per the vote-kick system. Reason, rather than angry unjustified bans. If someone reports a good driver for a simple mistake, there will be no punishment. Not so with a vote-ban pile-on.
To imply that the system is biased towards people who 'befriend' the admins, and that it is designed with some sort of inherent unfairness because of drivers who report frequently is complete crap and rather insulting to the admins who spend a lot of time sifting through reports in order to make CTRA a great place to race. All one has to do to know that such bias doesn't exist is to spend a few minutes reading the posts of SamH, Bob Smith or other CTRA admins to know they're level-headed, sensible, fair-minded people who just want to make CTRA as good as it can be.
So true. A great post.
Exactly. My thoughts exactly. And they won't stop working 'till its perfect.
Bob Smith isn't a CTRA admin.
Befriending the Admins is rediculous, especially as without research i doubt most people could name all of the admins...
Befriending the Admins is rediculous, especially as without research i doubt most people could name all of the admins...
Hmmm yeah you're right.
Top bloke though.
what is the best way to report the "start grid removers" ? taking the replay from the first race on new track or the last race on old track ?
i'm shocked that this happended nearly everytime on UF-BR since only opened to bronze, but only if there is no UKCT-guy on track
i'm shocked that this happended nearly everytime on UF-BR since only opened to bronze, but only if there is no UKCT-guy on track
This thread is closed
poor attitudes lately on CTRA
(98 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG