Well back on RSC I suggested to have the banners as they are now, but also to have some, which could be skinned the way the cars are skinned now... This would make it much easier for teams to get a server for ads...

And another thing is a MOTD screen upon conneting to a server...

So far it seems to perculate down to those who find advertising offensive BECAUSE it's advertising, and those who see the reality/immersion of it as a plus. Both perspectives, I totally empathise with.

To clarify, in my own mind I'd considered the real advertising around real tracks as the actual product, which I proposed to place in LFS. Thus, Valvoline, Shell, Cooper Tires, Dunlop, RBS, SAP etc would be the ads I'd consider to be genuine product placement because they're present AT real tracks, whereas online casinos, enlargement products (except Viagra, of course!) are irrelevent to the sport, not present as products (ads) at real tracks, and therefore wouldn't be what I'd consider to be ads we'd ever see in LFS. Fortunately, LFS being what it is, accepting advertising from such sources is unlikely ever to happen, because it's not in the spirit of LFS.. simulated realism.

Maybe I'm just a motorsport nut, but often I join servers not to race but to spectate. I just enjoy motorsport, and I do see the advertising billboards, as I would if I were watching the F1 GP.

Companies might consider a little extra investment to step into the virtual world. Since the majority of their audience is already principally seeing them on-screen in peoples' homes and since statistics bear out that people (at least here in the UK) spend more hours in front of their PC, these days, than in front of their TVs, it would take a fairly narrow-sighted marketing department to not see the benefits. And let's face it, how totally cool must a company be, to have their ads in a PC game like LFS!

If the devs were to choose a selection of ads of relevant things that would be fine. If each server can skin itself I can just see a load of stupidly bright colours advertising casinos and viagra.

I'd rather that all of this was optional, as I can't see auto download ads being low res and not everyone wants high res everything.

Bump! (this is the oldest thread I've ever bumped deliberately! )

But a new slant, actually. This time, specifically for server operators and league organizers. Since I started this thread back in 2005, I've learned an awful lot more about LFS and so I know that the master server is definitely not at risk!

While we've been chasing sponsors recently, it's become apparent that our inability to distribute relevent billboards around the circuit to the racers/spectators is definitely a missed opportunity and, in its own way, it's a bit of a hindrance to the progress we want to introduce.

We're not at all desperate for cash at CTRA in order to keep going. The server is sufficiently funded etc., and I have to say that the support and commitment from UKCT is fab.. but we could do more than we are doing if we had the extra bit of appeal to offer potential sponsors. The trackside billboards are *the* obvious way to be able to secure the bandwidth we'd love to use (~1TB/mo, pre-X) and, if we did a good enough job of selling our system, to offer something tangible to achievers on our servers.

Ideally, server operators could host their own packaged versions of select billboards around the track. As you join the server, you automatically download the latest (unix timecoded?) JPG or DDS files as you do skins.

Anyway.. I wanted to throw it out there. It's just a wall that could be a door or a window for opportunities, for server hosts and leagues

I, personally, do not like the idea. I don't even like seeing Michelin, Castrol, Credit Suisse, and Intel in the game since it takes away from the cosey nature of LFS. (I'm fine with ATL since 90% of the community don't even know that it's a real company :P )

I've begun work on an Aston ads change to remove all the real companies and replace with fictional ones (mostly LFS companies) to keep the fictional feel to the sim. I like it better.

As it is now, it already takes a while to get into a medium-sized server, with all the skin downloads. I don't want to add more to that with dynamic ads that are shoved in my face. Heh.. typing this I've thought of an improvement suggestion myself....

res can be fixed at a size or provided in low/high res or whatever, but what this would enable is server operators to recoup some cost. In the case of UKCT with the CTRA servers, it might possibly make the difference with having a second server or not.

+1 to this idea (btw. http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=1462 )

Sure, implement ad downloads from third party servers (or actually just from the host, which downloads the ads by itself) - no problem. This would definitely work as long as they are downloaded before joining the host, like the current skins. Which does of course mean that the user would also be able to disable ad downloads altogether. I don't think anybody would have any objections against that - it's not like the ads would be animated or otherwise distracting (*cough*).

Though, the more professional it gets, the more the sponsors probably want statistics about ad viewing time and angle or similar, and I can't see Scawen waste any time for that.

Then there is also the issue of content control. Right now the devs don't allow automatic third party skin downloads because they have no control over what is being displayed, and I guess the same issue would arise for third party ads.

i think server side ads would work ... sort of
id still prefer the fictional world of lfs though and the moment we get a bf2esque spyware to place the ads is the moment ill uninstall lfs for good even if discussing where exactly a crash occured might turn out to be fun with it http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20061019.jpg

Quote from SamH :

Bump! (this is the oldest thread I've ever bumped deliberately! )

But a new slant, actually. This time, specifically for server operators and league organizers. Since I started this thread back in 2005, I've learned an awful lot more about LFS and so I know that the master server is definitely not at risk!

While we've been chasing sponsors recently, it's become apparent that our inability to distribute relevent billboards around the circuit to the racers/spectators is definitely a missed opportunity and, in its own way, it's a bit of a hindrance to the progress we want to introduce.

We're not at all desperate for cash at CTRA in order to keep going. The server is sufficiently funded etc., and I have to say that the support and commitment from UKCT is fab.. but we could do more than we are doing if we had the extra bit of appeal to offer potential sponsors. The trackside billboards are *the* obvious way to be able to secure the bandwidth we'd love to use (~1TB/mo, pre-X) and, if we did a good enough job of selling our system, to offer something tangible to achievers on our servers.

Ideally, server operators could host their own packaged versions of select billboards around the track. As you join the server, you automatically download the latest (unix timecoded?) JPG or DDS files as you do skins.

Anyway.. I wanted to throw it out there. It's just a wall that could be a door or a window for opportunities, for server hosts and leagues

This was one of the main reasons I didn't even consider looking at RACE. If this becomes a part of LFS, then I'll drop it like a hot spud.. I don't mind static advertising with the billboards etc as they currently are, I can change them if I so desire.. forcing me to see 3rd party ads regardless will result in me 1:> null-routing the ad server(s) IP address(es), 2:> finding a new game, 3:> forgetting all about S3



Regards,

Ian

Quote from SamH :

This thread is very much directed at the Devs.. but what does everyone else think to this? (and apologies if it's been discussed before. I did search and didn't find)

It's weird! Everywhere else on the Internet, I'm doing my damndest to kill ads, avoid popups, and not click on click-thru banners. So why do I find myself, in the case of LFS, WISHING to see REAL ads from REAL companies around the track!?

I'd REALLY like to see, in LFS, sponsorship from real companies on the billboards around the track. I'd be delighted to see Vodaphone banners, Dunlop banners, Goodyear, Orange.. ANYthing, actually, that's real. I know there are companies out there who are introducing the concept of live banner advertising to game developers, and into online gameplay, and in the scenarios I've seen, I've found the idea largely unattractive. But LFS is entirely different, because the scenario begs for reality, and current and relevent, dynamically updated advertising IS a reality that I think is VERY achievable in LFS.

When we (my friends and I) set up our dedicated server to play LFS, one of the other games servers we installed was Battlefield2, and in the config is an option for "Server Graphic". In there, we dropped the URL for our own banner. KEWL! It would be nice to be able to advertise your LFS team on the pitwall, or on the wall facing you at turn 1, or on the bridge. At the moment, the only place you get to promote your server is in the list of multiplayer servers before folks pick and join one. It would be nice to get a bit more screen realty inside the game too!

The fundamental aspects of the mechanism exists already, in LFS, with dynamically updated car skins (kickass!!!).. and I see billboard advertising as a mere step away.

On top of everything else, it could guarantee the longevity of LFS beyond S3. While I do very much sense a philanthropic aspect to Scawen, Eric et al, and the business model of LFS and its supporting gaming community is most definitely a departure from traditional concepts, I do sometimes worry how long the servers that support LFS (Master Server, LFS Desktop etc) could coast in coming years.

It's a discussion that's getting coverage in the UK at the moment, with companies bidding for products' placement in TV programmes. I've been thinking about the thing since joining the LFS community this year. What do you guys think?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15868....ya didnt search hard enough

:doh: :rolleyes:

You quoted a post from 2005 and directed him to a thread made almost one year later...

Quote from CSU1 :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15868....ya didnt search hard enough

Look at the Date. Acutally you're the one that didn't search.

WoW1eleven...still though tis all relevant ...is'nt it?

E: *reads rest of thread* laughs my ass off* /*gets coat*----> goes to lunch feeling like a twat*

Quote from Ian.H :

This was one of the main reasons I didn't even consider looking at RACE. If this becomes a part of LFS, then I'll drop it like a hot spud.. I don't mind static advertising with the billboards etc as they currently are, I can change them if I so desire.. forcing me to see 3rd party ads regardless will result in me 1:> null-routing the ad server(s) IP address(es), 2:> finding a new game, 3:> forgetting all about S3



Regards,

Ian

Ack. That'd be a travesty!

I guess you could save yourself the bother of null-routing the IP by just not joining the server. Especially since you'd lose connection to the host as soon as you did that anyway

I'm quite sure that very few people are as OCD about appropriately placed advertising as that, frankly. It would make it very difficult indeed (read: absolutely impossible) to watch a motor race on TV, or in fact anything other than ANYTHING on BBC. You must be more glad than ever that you live in the UK, and don't have to subject yourself to anything visually offensive like ITV or Sky.

Advertising is a core aspect of motorsports. Without it, barely any of it would happen except the ricing at Brighton and other street events. I respect your position, Ian, as much as it is possible to do so, but I have to say that in the REAL world, it's utterly unsustainable. LFS may be a game (say it with me, G.A.M.E.), but it still exists in the real world.

I understand Sam's position on this and am with him. For the larger server operators such as UKCT (of which Sam and I are a part) it might enable us to open a second server. We can't do that with our own funds alone, so our maximum capacity is fundamentally limited.

I'm sure if Scawen ever bothers to implement something like this then he'd also add the option for users to turn it off. No reason to fear it at all.

Quote :

It's just a wall that could be a door or a window for opportunities, for server hosts and leagues

I understand your point Sam, but from a general guy/racer perspective (ie, most of us), without responsibilities of maintaining a server etc, I can't see any attraction at all in this idea. Hmmm.. I just grew up believing that advertising was the devil, so I'm just naturally against this type of thing in general.

From a realism standpoint, how can you make sure that the ads will be always contextually appropriate?

Maybe I'd be happier if they were of the type that you see at the top right of the forum here. They're directly informative to sim-racers. But how can a RL tyre-company really reach through to someone who operates his vehicle from an office chair? I'm sure these companies would be of the same opinion, so I don't think you'll see a giant Yokohama ad prop arching over the track, officially. It would be a simply waste of money, from their POV.

Someone mentioned back, that if RL companies started gaining a footing within LFS, they'd want to influence development and wield more power. I think that this would ultimately prove true. Not so long ago, I was helping Axus put together a special promotional copy of LFS for a SA computer company, on the proviso that their logo would be used in the trackside ads. Fair enough. But all too soon they wanted their partners logo's included as well (there was a giant list). So, great. You get RL ads, but now they're all computer brands- and how realistic is that? Not very.

Quote :

add the option for users to turn it off.

Uhuh. Not. (you can't choose advertising)

-1 (with emphasis)

-9999999999999 for any option for server side ads in LFS which can't be turned off by users.

LFS is supposed to cater to wide audiances, but it's like motorsport and films at the middle of the night on ITV4, you'll just get adverts for 18+ services which no-one wants whilst racing.

If LFS wants any texture and crap downloads, suits and pit interiors need to be done first. Then consider it - provided the user can turn it off. I'd love someone to make a PVR which automatically deletes ads when recording, and auto flicks to news 24 or similar when the commercial break starts and goes back when it finishes. Excellent

Quote from duke_toaster :

-9999999999999 for any option for server side ads in LFS.

LFS is supposed to cater to wide audiances, but it's like motorsport and films at the middle of the night on ITV4, you'll just get adverts for 18+ services which no-one wants whilst racing.

If LFS wants any texture and crap downloads, suits and pit interiors need to be done first.

you too sir have greatly missed the point here...im sayen nout more for fear of stuff....now shut up

Quote from Becky Rose :

For the larger server operators such as UKCT (of which Sam and I are a part) it might enable us to open a second server.

well s2 currently has ~500 servers of which max ~100 are pupulated at peak times so the last thing we need atm is more servers

When it comes to product placement in LFS, I'm still mostly for it. A compromise for any server operator though, would be to create a set of buttons via InSim whereby advertising could be placed.

Not ideal, I'll agree, but potentially worth while as you could periodically clear the "buttons" and so forth. For example ensuring they come up at the end of the race and just prior would be a good compromise imho.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Not ideal, I'll agree, but potentially worth while as you could periodically clear the "buttons" and so forth. For example ensuring they come up at the end of the race and just prior would be a good compromise imho.

like a commercial break between races ? tbh that would make me disconnect and never come back ever again

Quote from Shotglass :

well s2 currently has ~500 servers of which max ~100 are pupulated at peak times so the last thing we need atm is more servers

Think of it in the other way I suggested.. LFS leagues offering actual prizes. If we received an abundance of cash at the CTRA from advertisers, the excess would be passed on to the racers. In fact, the reason I re-ignited this ancient thread was because UKCT were talking about how we'd go about getting into a situation where we could give something tangible to CTRA winners.

It gets my full support, in principle.

However it must have option to turn off. Most people here will be on broadband so occasionally downloading an extra jpg (assuming that billboards get stored locally just like skins) can't really be a problem, but for whatever reason there will be times you don't want to download stuff.

Otherwise, I think it would add greatly to the immersion and realism. Real tracks change. Thinking of things like the British GP at Silverstone for example, the general "look" of the track can transform dramatically between years if the primary sponsor changes. Imagine if LFS tracks had the same capability, and (eg) the Redline Racing server looked noticeably different from a ConeDodgers server.

The other caveat I can think of is some kind of content filtering system. mainly to prevent inappropriate adverts. In the world of online advertising, LFS is to BF2 what ITV4 at 11pm is to ITV1 at 8pm. And the only adverts on ITV4 at 11pm are all for sex phone lines and other random crap. With skins the content is controlled by virtue of it all being on the LFSW server. So billboards could be added to the list, but then the bandwidth costs go up again so the devs would need paying by the advertisers, and it gets rather complicated.

But what other techniques could stop abuse or inappropriate ad placement? Having them hosted on the race server itself would be convenient, but wouldn't there still need to be a check via LFSW/master server about the content? How does EA/BF2 police the in-game advertising?

I think it's a great idea, just can't quite envisage at the moment how it'd work.