Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I wonder whether FZR drivers really think they'd be more competitive than they currently are, were they driving XRRs.

I doubt it, I believe there just is no legitimat reason to penalize the FZR which has no obvious advantages when it comes to race distances.

Quote from rcpilot :

No, I didn't mix up any cars. The FXR was seriously quick at blackwood, although it didn't show as much in our league, while the XRR had major problems exiting the now lower speed corners that BL GP is composed of with its turbo lag w/o the advantage of awd. I'm saying you guys have seen two races, with pretty inconclusive results and are worried about the sky falling. We (or I at least) have incomplete data so far as to whether or not the new blackwood is a good representative track for balancing and I know kyn isn't a good representation of your average track.

I don't think any of us are worried the sky is falling, well maybe the one guy who thinks the XRR is 7 seconds a lap faster than the FZR

KYN seems to be a fairly average track, with SO and FE being twistier, and (other) KY and WE being faster. BW about the same?

I agree with you, the data is inconclusive at best, so why have the added ballast?

Pretty much because of this:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35523
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=36838
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=36992

Can't say for myself yet whether or not it really works but it has been argued to death and worked out pretty amicably in the end. 15 kg is only .15 or so per minute which makes it that much harder to judge its effect.

Quote from rcpilot :

Pretty much because of this:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35523
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=36838
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=36992

Can't say for myself yet whether or not it really works but it has been argued to death and worked out pretty amicably in the end. 15 kg is only .15 or so per minute which makes it that much harder to judge its effect.

Like you said, it remains unclear if it works / was needed at all in the first place.

In my opinion, the patch led to a rush in judgement, "OMG, the cars are back to 0-0-0, they can't possibly be equal!!11!"

The there was an immediate push to race unfounded ballasts, instead of just going through a few races and seeing if any ballast was needed.

Obviously 15kg is such a trivial pentalty (1.2% if the car was 1250kg), that it is out of the realm of having an effect much more than a placebo effect. Except that the spring rates and settings need to be modified.

While I appreciate the spirit of this discussion, let me just say here that the balancing for this season will not be changed unless a new physics patch comes out, and maybe not even then, depending.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

While I appreciate the spirit of this discussion, let me just say here that the balancing for this season will not be changed unless a new physics patch comes out, and maybe not even then, depending.

Fair enough, but I do find it interesting that in one of RC's links you yourself questioned the use of such small ballast, as upwards of 80kgs effected a LOTA driver by only about a second a lap.

There is more than enough evidence to prove that the 15kg is Not needed just from the last MOE race alone, where an unballasted XRR had a stint of 47 laps (hugely impossible in the FZR) and managed to came back from a DT pentalty (admittedly a truely inspired drive, but the point remains). Add in the lack of engine damage and sequential gearbox, the cars are even over a race distance without any unneccessary ballasts.

I signed up for the FZR+15kg in this season's IGTC.

Agreeing to terms and then trying to negotiate for a better deal is simply unreasonable. So is complaining about the deal you got.

No worries Sam, the spirit of this discussion is appreciated

Anywho, its a fairly trivial ballast in the great scheme of things. Warranted or effective, to be determined.

Time to give a bump at this thread, don't you think ?

Yes, I do think. Was just about to make a thread, as you'll see in a moment.

Cross-posted from the other thread:

After reviewing the available data (such as it is) and consulting "expert" opinions, it's clear to the admins that we don't have the necessary information to accurately and fairly impose any external balancing.

We feel that the master server balancing allows for close competition between the two faster cars, and while it may favor one car or the other in some way, it's undoubtedly by a very small margin. The FXR remains roughly where it was with the patch Y balancing, which we also feel to be appropriate.

Therefore, for the remainder of the season we will use the master server/default LFS balancing. All teams are welcome to change their car model at this point, but the car you race in round six will be the car you race for the remaining two rounds.

Looking ahead, we will use the results of the final three races, and similar results from other endurance leagues to determine how to handle balancing for the 2009 season.

Thanks for your patience over this period of uncertainty, and thanks to the marshals, teams, drivers, and friends of IGTC who helped in our testing efforts.