Yeah, I gather they outlawed extra-marital relationships with sheep in Scotland.

Poor goats.

guys iRacing isn't going anywhere...if it was, it'd be gone already.

I think you can take your monetary concerns and throw them out the window.

John Henry is pretty well off...and he wants it to happen. He only invested $690 million into the redsocks in 2002...

I really doubt it would have gotten to this point if they were just going to shut down. They aren't stupid...no one was expecting any more than what they have. The feeling I get is that they're very happy with the way things are going, and its getting better all the time. They have yet to even launch their full advertising campaign yet...I've seen minimal press stories, and the occasional magazine ad.

About all these thread ruining arguments, I really don't care to get into debates about it. To all the angry people who can't afford it...bummer. Don't hate iracing because you don't have the extra money.

If you hate the subscription deal, but like the service and the sim itself...then either don't race or just deal with it and subscribe...because its not changing, and no amount of bitching/slamming/defacing will.

iRacing is no different than an MMO. World of warcraft. $15 a month, now has 2 expansion packs. $40 per game or more + 150 a year with the reduced price for longer subscriptions. gee....$300 for the first year for a game...imagine that.

Quote from SamH :

Even if all the 5000 subscribers were paying per month rather than annually, you're looking at $100K/month. FTR, that isn't enough.

At least the Pro series elements should be ready within a year. Financially they'll survive until then and probably a while longer no matter what. If it became apparent that there's not enough interest for the competition to work, then they'd have to rethink.

Iracing is good, and I resent the terms that we use sheep




some of us move up in class and have cows.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Lots of different opinions in here, some reasonable and some questionable.

Questionable is what people say to justify the pricing/structure/content.

"I like iRacing because it's a wonderful piece of software and I reap a lot of enjoyment out of it" is absolutely reasonable. Heck that could be me in a month.

But when people start telling others that they're cheap, or poor, or not hardcore enough, or John Henry is rich and powerful, Dave Kaemmer has a long legacy of success, they spent $goggggilllions on it and therefore you should feel priviledged that it's such a good bargain, iRacing is some sort of new sports entity that is like real life except on the computer, it's cheaper than other MMOs because that's an apple-to-apples comparison even though I thought you people don't regard iRacing as a game, and finally it's a bargain to the real thing because it's almost a perfect substitute. Bullocks.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Iracing is good, and I resent the terms that we use sheep




some of us move up in class and have cows.

Well some of 'we' are short, cows are just too high up for us stumpy folks.

Quote from rjm1982 :

I just don't play it because the differences make it difficult to jump back and forth.

I'm surprised to hear you say that.

I've found that racing iRacing has made me faster at LFS and netKar Pro. I can jump between all three of them with no problem at all.

iRacing will make you a better sim driver. I can transfer those skill to my other two sims with great results.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Another thing is RSC, we shouldn't even have to bring up that place into the conversation because it's known for having some ridiculous posts on there

Aye, fair point The level of stupidity/fanboyism/resistance to change on the iRacing section of RSC was crazy. Maybe it's better now...i cant be arsed to look these days. But, that is probably where most non iRacers get their iRacing info from. I developed a (probably unjustified) hatred of the community from that place in the early days after release. I was wrong to label the whole community as being snobbish based on RSC. Apologies for that.
The official iRacing forum isn't anywhere near as bad. But non iRacers will never know that.

Quote from AlienT. :

Well some of 'we' are short, cows are just too high up for us stumpy folks.

Well you can have my ex..

(seriously I thought I had set this one up)

Quote from The Moose :

I'm surprised to hear you say that.

I've found that racing iRacing has made me faster at LFS and netKar Pro. I can jump between all three of them with no problem at all.

iRacing will make you a better sim driver. I can transfer those skill to my other two sims with great results.

Maybe I'll give it another try... If nothing else, the skippy has taught me better car control... even though I still struggle with it... im going to be a road race rookie for a while (and im happy with that... i don't try to fudge the numbers to get my SR up to race cars above my head).

I just tried at first, and I felt wierd saying this: I don't know if it's the force feedback being so much better in iRacing, or the surface of the tracks being so much more detailed, but when I came back to LFS, I didn't feel like the car was "connected" to the road.. if you know what I mean.

THe reason I felt weird thinking that, is I said the same thing about LFS before iRacing in comparison to other sims previous...

Quote from rjm1982 :

im going to be a road race rookie for a while (and im happy with that... i don't try to fudge the numbers to get my SR up to race cars above my head).

Personally i think the Skippy is by far the hardest car to drive well. Get that safety rating up and try the Mazda and Radical

Quote from rjm1982 :

I just tried at first, and I felt wierd saying this: I don't know if it's the force feedback being so much better in iRacing, or the surface of the tracks being so much more detailed, but when I came back to LFS, I didn't feel like the car was "connected" to the road.. if you know what I mean.

I certainly do know what you mean The FF in iRacing is a combination of the best bits of LFS and nKPro. You get the feeling of weight transfer that LFS gives you and all the lovely subtle feedback that nKPro gives you + the detail in the track surfaces as an added bonus . It does take a few laps to get used to the relitively dead FF in LFS in comparison, but i'm absolutely sure iRacing has made me a better driver in LFS + nKPro. Car conrol and accuracy have both been improved since driving iRacing.

I guess it's whether you can live with the lack of good FF in LFS that will ultimately decide if you can still enjoy it. I just think of it as driving the Solstice instead of the Skippy, feel wise.

Quote from Mattesa :

Questionable is what people say to justify the pricing/structure/content.

"I like iRacing because it's a wonderful piece of software and I reap a lot of enjoyment out of it" is absolutely reasonable. Heck that could be me in a month.

But when people start telling others that they're cheap, or poor, or not hardcore enough, or John Henry is rich and powerful, Dave Kaemmer has a long legacy of success, they spent $goggggilllions on it and therefore you should feel priviledged that it's such a good bargain, iRacing is some sort of new sports entity that is like real life except on the computer, it's cheaper than other MMOs because that's an apple-to-apples comparison even though I thought you people don't regard iRacing as a game, and finally it's a bargain to the real thing because it's almost a perfect substitute. Bullocks.

Where are you reading this? Honestly, because it isn't on here or on the iRacing forum.


@Moose: Gotta agree with the FFB thing. Always felt certain aspects missing in LFS, and when I switch to LFS from iRacing I see the huge difference.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Where are you reading this? Honestly, because it isn't on here or on the iRacing forum.

RSC probably. It's all there, he's not making it up.

Quote from The Moose :

RSC probably. It's all there, he's not making it up.

There certainly was some "if you don't like spending 13 dollars every month you're cheap" in this very thread just prior to/at launch, but that thankfully stopped...

Quote from PMD9409 :

Where are you reading this? Honestly, because it isn't on here...

Like this...

Spanks, I'm going to use you as an example. I mean no ill will, and you're entitled to your opinion. Flame me back as you see fit. We cool man? Alright, we cool:

Quote from spanks :

John Henry is pretty well off...and he wants it to happen. He only invested $690 million into the redsocks in 2002...

Reciting names. Hero worship? Not impressed he's rich, and I don't see the relevance.

Quote from spanks :

To all the angry people who can't afford it...bummer. Don't hate iracing because you don't have the extra money.

There we go... cheapness.

Quote from spanks :

If you hate the subscription deal, but like the service and the sim itself...then either don't race or just deal with it and subscribe...because its not changing, and no amount of bitching/slamming/defacing will.

So we should bend over, take it, and stop talking about it.

Quote from spanks :

iRacing is no different than an MMO. World of warcraft. $15 a month, now has 2 expansion packs. $40 per game or more + 150 a year with the reduced price for longer subscriptions. gee....$300 for the first year for a game...imagine that.

On the one hand it's no worse than an MMO. So by that logic it's just a game. On the other hand it's a lot cheaper than the real thing, and by that logic it's some sort of real life analog league thing that's very very serious with sporting codes and such. Oh, and another jab at cheapness.

So it's these sort of opinions that I have a problem with. Yup, more at RSC indeed.

I wil try Iracing when i eventualy get the money for it.

Im not stating Iracing is bad i believe it must be verry good for al thye things poeple are saying about it.

But i hape to face the fact that i a 17 year old graphical school student cannot afford this.
And this even makes me want to try Iracing even more sadly.

But again the cost for somebuddy at my age impossible maybe when im 30 years old il be able to finaly try until then il stick to LFS

Quote from Mattesa :

Like this...

Spanks, I'm going to use you as an example. I mean no ill will, and you're entitled to your opinion. Flame me back as you see fit. We cool man? Alright, we cool:


Reciting names. Hero worship? Not impressed he's rich, and I don't see the relevance.


There we go... cheapness.


So we should bend over, take it, and stop talking about it.


On the one hand it's no worse than an MMO. So by that logic it's just a game. On the other hand it's a lot cheaper than the real thing, and by that logic it's some sort of real life analog league thing that's very very serious with sporting codes and such. Oh, and another jab at cheapness.

So it's these sort of opinions that I have a problem with. Yup, more at RSC indeed.

1. somewhat cool, you're reading way too much into my post...using it for what you want.

2. I'm saying he's the primary funding behind the project. $20 million is not a big deal to him. He races actively in the service...he's doing this because he wants to. Its not going to disappear in 3 years like people say because of a lack of income. How many times have I heard that we shouldn't be bothered by the SNAIL ****ING PACE lfs is developed because theres only 3 people making it with no money. Thats not my fault! This is the first and probably only time I'll jab lfs for that reason. I paid my money, and I'm extremely satisfied with the program. Same with iracing.

3. Lol no. Never did I criticize anyone. I said it was too bad if you can't afford it. I was lucky enough to get a $250 scholarship in check form...silly them.

4. It was said previously prices may change, but the subscription model won't. Its as simple as I said, use it or not, no one is forcing you.

5. I don't care what the **** its called...game, sim, waste of time money and resources WHATEVER. Its fun and I enjoy it.

And yet again, I never called anyone cheap. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I can't go to the store and demand to only pay $35 for a $50 item. I can't call my magazine subscription and tell them I'm only going to pay $1 an issue instead of $2. This is no different. Its a game, and a service. It has a price. You either pay it, or you don't use the service.

Quote from Mattesa :

Like this...

Spanks, I'm going to use you as an example. I mean no ill will, and you're entitled to your opinion. Flame me back as you see fit. We cool man? Alright, we cool:


Reciting names. Hero worship? Not impressed he's rich, and I don't see the relevance.


There we go... cheapness.


So we should bend over, take it, and stop talking about it.


On the one hand it's no worse than an MMO. So by that logic it's just a game. On the other hand it's a lot cheaper than the real thing, and by that logic it's some sort of real life analog league thing that's very very serious with sporting codes and such. Oh, and another jab at cheapness.

So it's these sort of opinions that I have a problem with. Yup, more at RSC indeed.

Ok ok, so one person screws me up, that's cool.

I honestly was one of those people who thought at first I could not afford it. Instead of sitting around chatting about it, I instead just kept the change I had at the end of the day (like quarters, dimes etc.) and put them in a jar. After about 3 to 4 months and I had a year of iRacing. I went straight for the year because I thought of it as 156 dollars - 60 iRacing dollars. So basically I was only paying 96$ for the year, and the other 60 dollars I was spending on extra content. To me, it's well worth the money, but everyone thinks different.

Quote from spanks :

1. somewhat cool, you're reading way too much into my post...using it for what you want.

Somewhat cool, okay I'll take it. Yeah I am pretty much using your post to illustrate my point, thanks for being a good sport about it though.

Quote from rjm1982 :

Don't forget, iRacing was a $20,000,000 investment from the beginning. The "dues" recoup real life costs of continued development, of servers, of staff.

The amount involved isn't an issue. EA and other game makers typically spends $5 to $15 million per year per game they release. It's not an issue because there's a huge market for these games that sell from 5 million to 10 million copies (such as the NFS series, or more so the Sims and some of the first person shooters).

However sim-oriented racing players are a niche market, and with the higher pricing, iRacing is only going to get a fraction of this market.
They're hovering at around 6,000 players when they probably need around 30,000 to 40,000 to break even. I don't know if or when this will happen. Perhaps with more content and more advertising, they'll acheive a working business model, but my guess is that it will undergo a drastic change during it's first 3 years of operation.

Finally got to try it for the first time yesterday evening.

I could write a long and detailed post about how good it is, but i'm sure most of it would have been mentioned in here already. So i'm going to keep it short.

For me, iRacing feels like the first time i've seen/played LFS. It's like something you've never seen before, and it's clear immediately... It's simply the best there is at the moment, without a doubt. Period.

I think it's bloody expensive and that there are no real interesting cars, but still, it's VERY impressive and feels even better. I don't know if i can be bothered to pay a shitload of money for this in the future, but it's quite possible... i feel like i've spent those 20$ for the one month subscription very well (just one day of racing with the solstice was well worth it already).

EDIT: A little example of how good iracing actually is:

A good friend of mine has always tried racing games/sims at my place. He actually does have an S2 license, but somehow never liked to play with a steering wheel (he always used a controller). Whenever there was something new... a new patch for LFS, a new game (GT5P, Ferrari Challenge, whatever), he always had a go at my place, but was never convinced.

Yesterday he tried iRacing with the G25 at my place. He called me just before... to tell me he's going to buy a new PC, including a G25 and iRacing. Kind of speaks for itself... doesn't it? Hehe!

Quote from jibber :

Finally got to try it for the first time yesterday evening.

I could write a long and detailed post about how good it is, but i'm sure most of it would have been mentioned in here already. So i'm going to keep it short.

For me, iRacing feels like the first time i've seen/played LFS. It's like something you've never seen before, and it's clear immediately... It's simply the best there is at the moment, without a doubt. Period.

I think it's bloody expensive and that there are no real interesting cars, but still, it's VERY impressive and feels even better. I don't know if i can be bothered to pay a shitload of money for this in the future, but it's quite possible... i feel like i've spent those 20$ for the one month subscription very well (just one day of racing with the solstice was well worth it already).

Haha.. so you tried it after all! I told you it was good but you didn't seem very impressed by the price. Well, as we both know, it's definitely worth it for the while being, until you get bored of it.

I've made a drifting setup for the Pontiac Solstice and the Legends Ford '34 Coupe. The last one is a beast, but it sure is fun to get sideways!

I can't resist to swing the back end out a little now and then (during races, yes ). It's good fun. IMO, they made the transition from "grip to slip" really good in this sim. Real "drifting" (yes, real drifting, before you lose traction that is) is actually very possible (and lots of fun).

I just couldn't be bothered with what is available to play anymore... GT5P, Ferrari Challenge, Forza 2, outdated LFS.... it's all the same sh*t! I needed something new... something good!

And even tho the cars are a joke (i'd love a proper RWD road car), it actually is still great to play because it is so darn good.

Another thing that held me back is that i still don't have a credit card (and am not planning to get one). Otherwise i would have tried it earlier. However, i thought i'll just ask my dad and pay him the money back when i see him next time. My name is Johannes now...

Haha, you can get that changed. I e-mailed them to change my full name into my regular name and they changed it the same day.

And yep, the sudden transition between grip and loss of grip is one of the things what makes this sim shine above LFS. And even if you lose grip, you still have control over it, unlike rFactor or GTR, which just activate SPIN™ mode the moment you push your car too far.

They're working on more cars that will appeal to us Europeans more. I forgot which ones, but I got pretty excited when I read it.

Most of the current tracks are a joke. If you look at the tracks overview, you see little example layouts. I see half a dozen of... circles, ovals. None different from the other. I mean, why would you get a 800bhp car and only drive the final gear holding the steering wheel slightly to the left until you reach the finish line?

My guinea pig can do that. And he's dead. And his name is Coco. And he was a lousy driver.

I think oval racing requires quite some skill and concentration, but let's be honest... it's as boring as racing can get (IMO)?

I must say tho, i like the other tracks. Laguna Seca is awesome anyway, sure. But i also like Lime Rock a lot... and that other one is nice too (summit point or something like that)! Lime Rock is my favourite without a doubt.

I've seen they are working on a Corvette, but that will be a racing version (LM). I would wish for something like an M3, or an RX-7, Porsche GT3, etc... and please not a racing version.

If you're going to buy a track, buy the Watkins Glen International. It's the best racing track I've ever seen in a sim.
If you're going to buy a car, buy the Radical SR8, a very fast, light and grippy car that is a blast to drive.