I've been an AMD fanboy for years. Always had much more bang for your buck.

The fact is the latest Intel processors are in a different class to what AMD currently offer.

yeah, youve changed my mind guys. that and using tomshardware to look up both CPU's clocked to 3.0 ghz and seen how much faster the intel is.
Few problems now though.....:
amd overclock was a simple matter of bumping up the multiplyers, no heat or voltage or fsb difference.
Intel chip is fsb up to 3.0ghz, and it seems lots more heat too, i dont like heat seems a more "dangerous" overclock for someone who cant afford extra fans etc, also, this thing has gotta last 6 years like my last one. will it do that while overclocked? also the overclocked review seemed to keep mentioning how the ram speed was changed with the fsb. seems the intel overclock is much more technical and confusing so can someone put it simple and in a bit of a "how to" speech WITHOUT just linking me to a site and saying "read here" as i know what im like and ill need to ask questions as i go along lol.

I really don't think you'd need to overclock a 3.0 Ghz Core2Duo... it's PLENTY fast as is. Plain and simple.

Quote from robt :

the "mighty jakg" drives a moped, who of any respect has a moped?!

Below the belt!

Quote from robt :

Also, the AMD cpu with the multiplyers increased sits at E6xxx range on most benchmarks, id rather just click the multiplyers up then fiddle with fsb's and voltages. seems "safer" and doesnt make a diffrence to heat and voltage use it seems.

Erm, Upping the Multipliers is ONLY an option on the Intel Extreme, AMD FX or Black edition chips - on ALL the other chips the multi is locked. Overclocking the CPU by upping the FSB OR the Multi is just as "safe", and DOES make a difference to heat and voltage (in fact More Multi makes a chip run hotter compared to upping the FSB).

Lets take a CPU Benchmark like SuperPi (calculates 1 million digits of Pi), which is a bit Intel biased (but not that much). I had an AMD 3700 which I overclocked to 3.07 GHz (I actually LOWERED the multiplier so I could get even more FSB to get more bandwidth). That, linked up to some top-of-the-range DDR400 (overclocked to DDR566) memory could calculate Pi in 27 seconds. That AMD chip is actually VERY similar to the AM2 ones - they may have a memory controller for DDR2, but they are still just as fast speed wise...

I then upgraded to a Quad core Intel CPU (Xeon X3210) which I overclocked to 3 GHz - That did the Pi run in... 16 seconds.

Bearing in mind that SuperPi uses only ONE core, and that I paid the same amount for the Quad Core (admitedly used) as you'd pay for the "top end" AMD CPU (AMD 6400+ Black Edition) I have to admit that atm AMD suck.

I would LOVE to use AMD and run a Spider platform with ATi graphics cards, but it just isn't worth it.

EDIT - When you up the Multiplier you still need to up the Voltage. Core 2's are very effecient, and so you can get away with some overclocks with no voltage increase. Intel and AMD overclocking is very similar (although recently boards started giving a lot more options to cater for more overclockers like CPU PLL, vMCH etc), you seem to misunderstand that AMD is all about upping the FSB as only certain chips let you up the multi. Upping the Multi makes heat, too. The Build i listed will let you run that CPU nice and cool at 3 GHz, if you can overclock. You wont need to overclock the memory if you bugger about with dividers and multi's. If your worrried about heat the 6400 Black edition chucks out the same amount of heat as my Intel Quad core does (!).

I don't mean to offend you rob but you are a few years out of date on knowledge, both with CPU and overclocking.

Forget looking at the Ghz as performance level when you try and compare AMD and Intel, it doesn't tally and hasn't for a long time. Also forget the multipliers thing, even with my AMD I never used it to overclock that way, it's always been tweaking the FSB.

I went from years of AMD to an Intel E6750 (2.66Ghz) with the stock cooler, even flat out it runs as much as 10 degrees or more cooler than my old AMD did, with a MASSIVE heatsink and fan.

When I've been testing the overclocks I can get with my Intel I've taken it up to 3.8Ghz by just upping the FSB but that was only for SuperPI and nothing more, I've run 3Ghz with no problems, stock heatsink and fan, and would expect it to do more.

At the end of the day, you don't need to overclock at all (I dunno why it’s seems to be so important?), you'll have more then enough CPU performance for anything, AMD or Intel. The thing you need to be worrying about is the graphics card, you NEED to be spending at least £150.

so the base E2200 is going to run everything fine is it? and i need £150 card to run.......lfs? lol. there may be a few other games but *shrugs* from what ive heard (which is where most of what im saying is coming from) a "normal" E2200 wont be the best to run games.....
So from what you're all saying, get the E2200, itll run anything. and if i do need to overclock i just come back and nag you all? thanks again guys, but just clarify im not talking rubbish for me.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ - £86.70
ASUS M2N-SLI DELUXE - £78.08
OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 - £29.99
Coolermaster Elite 330 Black C ... 460W PSU *SPECIAL OFFER* - £42.99
Power Color HD3870 XT PCS 512M ... DVI PCI-E Graphics Card - £139.99
Seagate ST3250410AS 250GB Hard ... pm 16MB Cache - £45.21
Optiarc AD-7200S 20X DVD±RW/DL/RAM Internal SATA - £16.00

TOTAL (including P&P) = £445.89

You could go with that black edition 5000+ and save a bit and a cheaper motherboard, got those 2 from a bundle kit but went with cheaper, but just as good RAM. You could also go with a sub £100 graphics card if you wanted, think it's a good base with the CPU, RAM and MB.

Just looking at the options you have.

*slaps garph round the head* pay attention lol
that CPU is double the price and youve put me about £70 over budget. Just wanted to know if that E2200 would run everything, and if not, how/what should i overclock it to?

I know whats gone on, but you could go a different way, not done yet, Dadge did one for some else. Just pricing it up.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ - £86.70
Gigabyte GA M57SLI-S4 SKT AM2 Nvidia MCP55P PCI-E 8Channel audio ATX - £55.92
OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 - £29.99
Coolermaster Elite 330 Black C ... 460W PSU *SPECIAL OFFER* - £42.99
Leadtek PX8600GT TDH 512MB GDDR2 Dual DVI TV Out PCI-E Graphics Card - £56.58
Seagate ST3250410AS 250GB Hard ... rpm 16MB Cache - £45.21
Optiarc AD-7200S 20X DVD±RW/DL/RAM Internal SATA - £16.00

TOTAL (including P&P) = £340.32

The G-card is a major drop but I know that 5600+ will not need overclocking and it's cheaper than the 5000+ casue you'd need a £30 heatsink and fan.

oh, ok then.

Had to suggest an AMD base, I've gotten so much shit from everyone for going Intel.

yeah, and looking at benchmarks if i leave the CPU's at stock speeds the amd 500+black thrashes the E2200, its only when they are both overclocked to 3.0ghz that the E2200 becomes faster. so what sould i choose

If you had more to spend I'd say Intel but because price is important, you need the AMD5600+

Quote from robt :

well im sticking to AMD lol. i dont care :P only had one pentium n the pc was crap (ok it was a 266mhz pentium 2 but shush lol) the "mighty jakg" drives a moped, who of any respect has a moped?! :P nobody can answer my unclocked multiplyers question? and im guessing you get what you pay for with motherboards? and that grphics card is expensive! ah well. ill see, any sub-£100 options?

So your paying X ammount for an AMD chip that is far slower than an intel chip of the same price. I don't see your logic - Intel have expanded since the Pentium 2 days, trust me. No AMD processor available to this day can match Intel's mid-range processors.

Quote from mcintyrej :

So your paying X ammount for an AMD chip that is far slower than an intel chip of the same price. I don't see your logic - Intel have expanded since the Pentium 2 days, trust me. No AMD processor available to this day can match Intel's mid-range processors.

At stock speeds what Intel for £80 beats the AMD5600+?

To make it worth while he'd need to be lookin at around £120 for an Intel. I agree that Intel have the lead but it depends on what price you can pay.

I KNEW IT! I saw this on the front page and thought it would be you Fobert.

+1 for Garph finding those links, I think any of my suggestions will be laughed at so i'll just keep an eye on this and see what you eventually get.

Psst, go intel :P

Quote from garph :

At stock speeds what Intel for £80 beats the AMD5600+?

To make it worth while he'd need to be lookin at around £120 for an Intel. I agree that Intel have the lead but it depends on what price you can pay.

If he wants unlocked multi then what says there's no overclocking possible? My E2140 @ 2.8Ghz beats pretty much every AMD chip (super Pi Benchmark) and it cost £50.

*sigh* RIGHT!!

Which processor make leaves me the most window for upgrades. and Will i "need" to overclock the cpu's in the next 5 years to keep it running at a reasonable speed for newer games? those are the only two answers i need now. then il start asking overclocking questions

Quote from robt :

Which processor make leaves me the most window for upgrades. and Will i "need" to overclock the cpu's in the next 5 years to keep it running at a reasonable speed for newer games? those are the only two answers i need now. then il start asking overclocking questions

Intel and socket 775 gives you the most upgrade options and longevity, loads more processors to choose from, from low price/performance to high/performance.

5 years is a long time and you have a tight budget, you might be expecting a little too much.

I have an E6750 a Gigabyte P35C-DS3R (both DDR2 and DDR3). I got this because the processor is good right now and has overclocking potential for the future as well as the motherboard supporting 45nm processors and DDR3.

By what you just said that is what you are looking for BUT for just the CPU, motherboard and RAM it cost me £225.51.

....and I dunno why but if you got the same right now it would cost you £245.14.

then i shall have to go for intel and feel dirty lol. i managed to make this pc in 2002 for £250
amd 2400+ xp
512mb DDR 400
Geforce Fx5700le
80gb maxtor IDE drive
52x32x52 cdrw drive
Asrock ks78x motherboard
450W PSU
keyboard, mouse, floppy drive, speakers.

So i dont think im really asking too much as it would stil be running ok if it hadnt been for the psu going funny!


BTW: also found 512MB of giel DDRII 667mhz ram in a pc i got lying about which is broken. might use that for a bit and get a better mobo like yours garph. should HOPEFULLY be getting a job at the end of march. but that moneys going on the capri, but does mean i can probably upgrade sooner then i thought.

Suggested shop - http://www.thecomputerpartshop.co.uk/

Quote from garph :

Intel and socket 775 gives you the most upgrade options and longevity, loads more processors to choose from, from low price/performance to high/performance.

Soon Intel brings out the new "Nehalem" CPU's which will run on a new Socket which needs new motherboards and DDR3. AM2 is even more dead as it doesn't have support for DDR3 and i'm expecting that once again they'll need to bring out a new chip which probably wont be able to compete.

To expect 5 years of any PC is pushing it, but there is no way any PC you buy now will be easily and cheaply upgradeable in 5 years time.

Built my last one in 2002, still ran most modern games ok. and ive decided on a pc, but im goin to run and hide so i dont get flamed thanks for your help guys! has been good.

It's AMD isn't it