The history of motor racing, particularly the class bias, is whole lot more complex and interesting than that. The technological aspect of racing tied it closely to working class enthusiasms, as much as to aristocratic and mercantile capital. And there were no circuits until street racing (esp. the death toll on the Paris to Madrid) proved both popular and dangerous.
The traditional marxist approach to history (ie. that economics is the primary driving force) is flawed, in that money and power are nothing without cultural support.
There are lots of interesting things yet to be written on the subject of motor racing history. That the sport did not originate on the streets is not one of them.
Which V8 Supercar race driver is that? With DRIFT plastered down the side of his car? I'd say that's actually a "drift racer" putting his mad skillz on display there.
Because the political and social influences on history now are very different to those at the end of the nineteenth century... But I don't see how it is possible to argue that circuit racing does not have its roots in the 'streets'; both in a metaphorical sense (that it evolved from popular, public drives and impetuses) and physically (there simply were no circuits for the first car race to take place on).
While in 1900 (or whenever) it was probably not on a race-track, the origins of modern autosports simply cannot be compared in any way whatsoever to contemporary bling street racer idiocy. My guess (correct me if I'm wrong) is that this very same contemporary bling street racing scene is where "drift racing" originated. In comparison, I think you'll find that the origins of F1 etc. were organised, legal, controlled events relative to their time in history. That they may not have been on closed-circuit race-tracks at the earliest moments of conception is completely besides the point.
What is closed circuit street racing?
Name me one motor sport that wasn't first implemented on the streets. Well off-roading doesn't use streets but lets not be so picky.
The reason racing and street racing are seen as two seperate and very different phenomena is the amount of media coverage racing gets. Everybody knows racing and street racing are totally different.
Drifting, as a sport, has very little media coverage. Where as the dorks who "drift" in the streets get plenty. Nowadays anything with big wings and flashy graphics are labeled as drifting by the media. F&F:TD really did a big "favour" to the drifting community. Besides it's absolutely the worst car movie I have ever seen.
In the history of morals and manners that relate to motor racing, I'm sure there will be a section dedicated to quotes on the 'idiocy' and irresponsible nature inherent to drivers of the horseless carriage.
It was the bling of its day (indeed early cars are referred to as 'brass era' cars). I'm not making a direct comparison here, merely stating that your dislike seems to be more about modern manners than a contemporary sport. why not just say so, instead of attempting back it up with technical verbiage about tyre conservation.
I think we're getting off point. Where closed circuit racing originated is irrelevant. Suffice to say it was around the 1900s in very old an relatively slow cars by an aristocratic upper class as nobody else could even afford cars!
I've said so already. Part of the reason I don't like drifting is because of the bling culture that goes with it! I've said it a thousand times. But then people say, "but the bling culture goes with circuit racing too" and then we all get way off the topic!
If you want to argue about my personal tastes and why I don't like drifting, I can briefly outline the reasons if you want me to, but then don't get defensive or tell me to shut up. I don't like rap music either, that's not an insult to people that do like rap music. It's just my personal opinion.
nihil has obviously already talked about the origins of racing, so i dont see much point on touching on it, so i will talk about drift. drift did originate on the street, but not kids powersliding, it started deep in the hills of Japan along side racing on the touge (term for mountain roads in Japan), theres a few different stories on why it started being used, not thats its really important but one of the origins is that it was actually a technique that slowly was adapted from racing, minor amounts of oversteer were induced to prevent understeer and it slowly became more and more about the drift rather than simply a technique for racing. what was seen here was a lot different from today, as the sport progressed it obviously changed a lot.
oh and drift is just quite simply not primarily a "street racing thing", in fact id argue that the ratio of people that drift on the track and people that drift on the street is more favourable towards the track than people that grip race, as mentioned i see people all the time racing through the hills, but rarely do you see people drifting through the hills.
and to put things into perspective, at a drift practice there is about 30% more participants than at a grip practice, and not that its overly relevant to this point, but at drift practice they charge an entry fee for spectators, whereas at the grip practice they dont, even so drift practice reels in at least 4-5 times the amount of spectators.
what bling? im within the drift scene, and the cars on street are either stock looking cars with performance mods, or ghetto looking cars with damage and mismatched panels, rarely do you see a "blinged up" car drifting. these people that sport the big chrome rims, neons, all that BS drive down a main road and try and pick up underage girls, they are not affiliated with any motorsport.
the fashion u see sometimes in Japan is simply some Japs having a crazy taste for cars. as for drift cars on the track, you will see body kits, wheels, decals etc, just like any circuit car, they need to be presented well for sponsors etc.
oh and BTW, you cant argue that street racing is dangerous, whether it be racing, drift, drag racing etc, but once again all motorsports share this side to them. also not all people that race on the street are idiotic kids, even some world famous racers and drifters are seen battling the touge, its a different discipline, but as i said, its often done on closed roads so there is no traffic.
i dont know about slowly...
(id recommend watching all of it, my favourite is at 1:45 where kuroi does a classic kuroi and carries massive angle through the corner) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfWQkkKPKyw
I think that what gets most people is not the fact of your personal taste - it's the fact that you started a thread (with a rather blatant title) about it in what, for all appearances, looks like an attempt to ram it down their throat.
You could probably start a whole series of threads entitled "What's the fascination with ______?!" and make one for each of the things you don't like and the result would be pretty much the same.
his name was warren luff i beleive, it was part of a promotional thing, the car was designed for drift and was drifted competitively by a drifter, but for this event they let warren behind to the wheel to see how he went, the result tells it all.
Your tastes, my tastes, his, hers, whoever's, are only worth one post. Actually, I have to define that a bit better... Individual tastes are not as interesting as how they become mass tastes, how they become historical.
i like to call it the fast and the furious generation, the movies brought an inflated image of the car scene, and drift is simply just the latest in the movie sets so its quite simply just the latest craze for them. it will pass.
Ha ha... I edited that out 'cos it sounded a bit fluffy... But I think it goes a bit further back than FnF, since the car has always been an icon of social as well as spatial mobility.
The first FnF film was quite interesting though, in that, while most of the protagonist cars were Japanese imports, the 'hero' car was all American muscle. There's a whole thesis in that...
So, I will reply to your other points in time. And they're good points BTW.
But setting aside my dislike for drifting for a second ... can you explain to me what it is they're doing? As in the goal? Sometimes I see two cars on the track - they're not actually racing are they? Just competing to see who can get more sideways? If it's the latter (which I am guessing is more likely), how do they know who wins? I'm assuming there are judges or something that judge on angle of drift and speed and award a score or something?
it is a judged sport, the judging criteria varies slightly between each country and event, but the general criteria is speed, angle and line. in a battle the idea of the leader is to generally do as good drift as possible and if possible getting some distance on the follower, the follower is trying to emulate the driver in front, keep close and even overtake under drift if it is possible.
there are plenty of tactics in the way of doing this, but its probably not worth getting into.
I guess it is kind of like other judged sports but there's still something about it that's just ... pointless. That's not quite the right word to express what I mean though.
But each to their own.
Bottom line is I don't care if people do it in LFS as long as it's doesn't impede the proper racing facet of the sim.
why would it? LFS is designed to sim the physics of driving a car, whether people use it for race or drift wont matter.
and most people would argue simply racing around a circuit is pointless, and well, it is, but **** its fun, same as drifting, its not there to have a point, its there to be fun.
