I said the comparison was stupid. I didn't say you were. And I said you looked silly, I didn't say you were silly. Please note the difference between the two states in each case.

There is no attitude. I just don't like stupid comments, or people writing rubbish about technical things. If you'd notice, I get on very well with those that either understand technical things, or don't invent silly arguments for things. There is just no need to state that highly paid professional racing drivers on custom made tracks with medical support and what have you race 1250bhp/tonne cars, and therefore joe public never driven anything on a track can cope with 1000hp/tonne in a car that's not much stronger than the stuff you get a takeaway in. If you think that's a valid argument, then you don't have much brain.

Tristan of course means 1000bhp/ton. He's right too, you can't make the comparison.

I'm sure Caterham will do a pretty good job at making it as drivable as possible on the road. 500bhp isn't a stupid amount, I expect it would be better at normal speeds than the Caparo thingy they are obviously having a pop at with the 1000bhp/ton figure (as Ariel have). I suppose if you're good enough it will lap faster at a fast circuit than a CSR260 or R500evo, but for most people it might as well have 2000bhp/ton, they won't be any quicker or have any more fun. Least you can say 1000bhp/ton down the pub, though.

Quote from sinbad :

Least you can say 1000bhp/ton down the pub, though.

And you only needed a few beer before it quickly drops under 900bhp/ton.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I said the comparison was stupid. I didn't say you were. And I said you looked silly, I didn't say you were silly. Please note the difference between the two states in each case.

There is no attitude. I just don't like stupid comments, or people writing rubbish about technical things. If you'd notice, I get on very well with those that either understand technical things, or don't invent silly arguments for things. There is just no need to state that highly paid professional racing drivers on custom made tracks with medical support and what have you race 1250bhp/tonne cars, and therefore joe public never driven anything on a track can cope with 1000hp/tonne in a car that's not much stronger than the stuff you get a takeaway in. If you think that's a valid argument, then you don't have much brain.

And you finish your post with "If... then you don't have much brain."
Seriously, your posts are sometimes written in a pretty much offensive way (no offense taken, no worries... i'm just saying...).

And i don't see why the comparison is actually that stupid. Sure, it was an extreme example, and of course i made that "silly" comparison to provoke a little, but it's not completely out of context.

Sure, if you drive the car on public roads, you'll have too much power to use if you want to stay within the speed limits. But hey, even with the 944 Turbo i had, the 300hp and 400nm torque was already too much to really use it... i had to step off the gas pedal not long after putting it down usually (if i wanted to stay within the speed limits). But you know what, the power of the car was actually fun (sight)!

If you want to use the "public roads and their speed limits... average joe... etc" argument, then you should maybe use a Smart with 50hp for driving on public roads. Since more power basically makes no sense (beside that more power could actually be fun).

And did you ever think of the possibility, that the few people who will get to purchase one of those cars, will actually use it on tracks (aswell)?

I think most people would find a Seven with 200hp plenty fun enough. The extra horsepower isn't for more fun, or even more speed, but it's about marketting and winning sales from the countless other Seven manufacturers (Westfield, numerous kitcar people, and then alternatives like Ultimas).

Is a Caterham with wings quicker on a track? Probably. Is it more fun? Possibly, but for a lot less you could buy and run a proper F3 car for several years. Will the 500hp make that much difference? No, not really. But it's too much for the road. With 200hp (or even 300hp) in a 500kg car you can at least use quite a lot of the performance at times.

My opinion is that 500hp is overkill, and they've ruined the looks.

As for the "If... then" statement, you can decide if it was meant as an insult. Did you think it was a valid argument? I see very little correlation between highly skilled drivers in very controlled conditions and road users. I like 'supercars' as much as the next guy, and I would be very cross is mentalists tried to ban them, but I still think the comparison you made is worthless.

But don't take insult. My posts are directed at the posts (and the image they give) 99.9% of the time, not the postee. I don't ask for thick skin, but normal thickness will be required

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think most people would find a Seven with 200hp plenty fun enough. The extra horsepower isn't for more fun, or even more speed, but it's about marketting and winning sales from the countless other Seven manufacturers (Westfield, numerous kitcar people, and then alternatives like Ultimas).



Is a Caterham with wings quicker on a track? Probably. Is it more fun? Possibly, but for a lot less you could buy and run a proper F3 car for several years. Will the 500hp make that much difference? No, not really. But it's too much for the road. With 200hp (or even 300hp) in a 500kg car you can at least use quite a lot of the performance at times.



My opinion is that 500hp is overkill, and they've ruined the looks.



As for the "If... then" statement, you can decide if it was meant as an insult. Did you think it was a valid argument? I see very little correlation between highly skilled drivers in very controlled conditions and road users. I like 'supercars' as much as the next guy, and I would be very cross is mentalists tried to ban them, but I still think the comparison you made is worthless.



But don't take insult. My posts are directed at the posts (and the image they give) 99.9% of the time, not the postee. I don't ask for thick skin, but normal thickness will be required

Fair enough.

Quote from jibber :

According to Wikipedia, the 2006 F1 cars had roughly 1'250hp per tonne. I guess that was just useless ammounts of power... basically just to show off (since too much power is useless, right?)?

An F1 car has a very long wheelbase (the best part of a metre longer) and has a high downforce aerodynamic package designed for huge high speed stability with massive slicks. A modern F1 car is very stable and predictable to drive and isn't going to produce snap oversteer caused by loss of grip due to aerodynamics or the tiniest bump in the road. In the event of a crash a modern F1 car has a huge nosecone that has been shown to allow drivers to survive 170mph near head on impacts. The bag fuel tank is located between the engine and cockpit bulkhead meaning serious fire after impact is now almost unheard of and F1 cars are only raced on tracks with huge run off areas and the best rescue teams anywhere in the world.

The Caterham has a very short wheelbase, resulting in great low speed chuckability at the expense of high speed instability. Its aerodynamics are based on the shape Mr Chapman drew fifty years ago before aerodynamics were a major consideration and almost certainly never went near a wind tunnel. To overcome the issues of high speed lift they just shoved a few wings onto it and I very much doubt they did proper computer modeling of the air flow let alone took it to a wind tunnel or have any idea what would actually happen at very high speed, which must be nearing the double ton. The Caterham has a very solid engine in front of the drivers legs that won't allow much deformation and a relatively exposed fuel tank that in a large impact with an object such as a tree is likely to be ruptured. The Caterham also leaves the drivers arms very exposed in the event of a roll, broken arms are a common injury even in low speed rolls.

In short an F1 car is pretty safe at the tracks it races at, not completely but in the event of a large crash, nearly always by drivers pushing far too hard or hitting each other, the chances of walking away from a big accident are high. The Caterham is going to be very unstable at high speeds and you will not walk away from a heavy impact with the wall at 100+mph in a Caterham, the chance of fire is also greatly increased and given that a car like this can be used on the road or more likely track days at local circuits with smaller run offs, harder walls and usually only one fire car on the entire circuit that would stand a chance at tackling a big fire. I think it's also safe to say that the chance of mechanical failure in an 8 car run from a low volume manufacturer which won't have had extensive testing near the limits of the car is substantial.

This car also wouldn't be nearly as fun to drive as a much less powerful Caterham because once you've got used to the acceleration you wouldn't actually be able to drive it safely as near to the limit as you can the less powerful car. I certainly wouldn't go near one or want to share a track with one

TBH, I love the looks of the car, with the exception of the h/lights, which, as stated previously, should be big round h/lights on a Caterham, but other than that, I feel it looks moody, and reasonably stealthy.
As for the figures, wow, some great performance, coming from a great (imo) british company, and tbh, comparing to an F1 car is something that Caterham should be proud of, it shows they're devoted to building cars that hold their own as much on track (either in motorsports, or trackdays) as they do on the road.
Just my 2 pence.

Quote from spacedskunk :

Caterhams are already the sex but this IS THE SEX..

If that is so where are the boobs

I can pass that thing with my UF1

Quote from Maukkade :

I can pass that thing with my UF1

I can pass a Formula One car on a moped.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I can pass a Formula One car on a moped.

Well i can pass a space ship by walk.

OWNED.

Having more and more power will eventually have negative effect on how much fun you are actually having. It is very easy to test, even in LFS. Just start the tweak, put some 400hp in the XRT and test it. If want more add some hp and test again. Eventually, depending on your starting point you will come to a figure at which the car is not much fun anymore. Wheelspin at every gear, at every gear certainly sounds fun but after you have driven such car, even a virtual one, you will quickly understand that there is a limit how much power the car/you can take before it gets annoying and frustarating instead of fun and challenging. 500hp on caterham is just silly. Even half of that is plenty handful if you drive it flatout.

500hp in a car like XRT is perfectly nice but in a caterham it is just a massive overkill. All that being said, a road going LX8, with some 300+ hp would be a perfect machine

Quote from tristancliffe :

What is 4tw?

I'd imagine that the car is slightly less fun than a 'normal' Caterham that can be relatively exploited with it's low power and decent torque.

Thr 150mph limiter is almost certainly there for aerodynamic reasons, and you don't want to experience major front end lift in something as bendy as a Caterham.

At £115 it does seem like a bargain though. Put me down for 6.

You can build one for fraction of price + make it stick to road in high speed so no need for limiter, it is then bye bye overlypriced Caterham that has ugliness kit

500hp...500KG!AMAZING insane power should be fun!oh look 1st gear wheelspin,2nd,3rd gear wheelspin fun!but after few hours at track with spinouts and zero grip all you want to do is to sell that overpowered crap and get that 200hp one