seeing as you asked, I closed my workshop this morning because I wanted to go to a rail business show at the nec (being in the rail industry), Then on the way back myself and my colleagues (i do beg your pardon) went karting then before heading back into derby we went to donington park for a look at the gp museum. Not a bad day all things considered.
seeing as you asked, I closed my workshop this morning because I wanted to go to a rail business show at the nec (being in the rail industry), Then on the way back myself and my colleagues (i do beg your pardon) went karting then before heading back into derby we went to donington park for a look at the gp museum. Not a bad day all things considered.
How many colleges do you own? 
"No missing the point at all"
Good English Mr perfect
:fence:
ooh, heated discussions.
Somebody that has no licence and was learning to drive (using a G25 + LFS) would indeed accelerate their understanding of driving a car.
If LFS simulated a real-life track, a person could practice on-line. They could then go to that track (first time) and be confident in getting a good time.
This said, although there are inherent differences between a game and life. The similarities and what LFS has to offer are close.
Somebody that has no licence and was learning to drive (using a G25 + LFS) would indeed accelerate their understanding of driving a car.
If LFS simulated a real-life track, a person could practice on-line. They could then go to that track (first time) and be confident in getting a good time.
This said, although there are inherent differences between a game and life. The similarities and what LFS has to offer are close.
I think andy thinks you should have said "not" instead of "no". He didn't understand your sentence.
only karting have done i think that the forces could be considered foundamental.
not when u are learning, and u honestly think daily driving see's anywhere near the forces of at the track? lol
im talking about learning here, u dont get to step straight into a perfectly setup car. also even in a race car you will have changes in controls with heat etc, as well as a gear box which isnt as simple as just clicking a plastic knob up into place.
once again, not everyone can step into a full race car, hell stepping into a full race car straight out would probably be more daunting. as i mentioned it isnt such an issue with a full race seat and harness, but most beginners start off with less substantial setups without full blow racing seats and harnesses. also quite simply the G-forces are very disorientating even if your not being thrown around in ur seat.
lol, no.
u cannot be serious can u? of course u dont want to crash in LFS, but its a bit different when the difference is possible death and simply having to restart the race. i guarentee you when people are learning LFS they have a lot more crashes than they would if they were on a track in real life.
it's quite simple really, im talking about when your learning to drive, the statements ive been targeting have been, "im good at LFS and i could step straight into a car and transfer my skills from LFS to real life". my point is that when you are learning, you are overcome by so many different things, doing 150kmh's around a sweeping corner is a lot more ****ing scarey than u think, let alone doing upwards of 200. the sense of speed, the forces pushing on ur body, the reality that if u hit something hard enough u could die, or at least **** ur car up pretty bad, this is when shit gets real, this is when you need to build up confidence.
after a while these things become secondary and you can start focusing on pulling down ur times, and i think maybe at a level where you can simply concentrate on ur lines, braking etc, LFS might be able to help you discover which ways you find faster around a corner and maybe a slightly advanced understanding for the physics of a car and even then, by the time you have learnt to get comfortable in a car, you have probably developed an understanding that has surpassed what you have learnt in LFS.
but once again, if you want to be a good driver in real life, go out to a real track and start practicing, no point sitting on ur arse in front of a computer telling ur friends ur better than schumacher because u can pull a good time around blackwood.
no. i dont know how i can make it any more clear, so im going to just say, unless you have done both i dont see how u can make a statement like this without even really knowing what both are like.
First time, as far as I can see, that you've stated that you were talking about learning to drive. Seems like you're shifting your position after the fact. Tighten that harness, yeah? 
I agree with Tristan, that LFS mirrors real-life driving in that it simulates physics behaviours closely. I also agree with him that the differences, rather than similarities, are down to personal experience. Not meaning learned experience, but meaning immersive experience. Things like the willing suspension of disbelief, your ability to become involved DESPITE the lack of physical forces exerted on you, etc. Tristan's point is that LFS, as a simulator, closely mirrors real life handling. Any individual may have a different experience due to many things, including the size of your monitor or the volume/quality of your headphones/speakers, but if you let it, LFS can be very accurate as a simulation.
What I don't get is why anyone is having difficulty latching on to that, unless they're deliberately determined to NOT understand Tristan's point. That's something I've seen from people before.. but when they do that, it just makes them irritating people to read posts from. If you're actually capable of taking on the inferences in Tristan's posts and simply CHOOSING not to, please stop it. The forum is asking nicely.
I agree with Tristan, that LFS mirrors real-life driving in that it simulates physics behaviours closely. I also agree with him that the differences, rather than similarities, are down to personal experience. Not meaning learned experience, but meaning immersive experience. Things like the willing suspension of disbelief, your ability to become involved DESPITE the lack of physical forces exerted on you, etc. Tristan's point is that LFS, as a simulator, closely mirrors real life handling. Any individual may have a different experience due to many things, including the size of your monitor or the volume/quality of your headphones/speakers, but if you let it, LFS can be very accurate as a simulation.
What I don't get is why anyone is having difficulty latching on to that, unless they're deliberately determined to NOT understand Tristan's point. That's something I've seen from people before.. but when they do that, it just makes them irritating people to read posts from. If you're actually capable of taking on the inferences in Tristan's posts and simply CHOOSING not to, please stop it. The forum is asking nicely.
Well, Live For Speed...it seems to offer everything it can for racing besides having to be in a car and on the track, and being able to communicate much more proficiently and easily with others. (Still waiting for VoIP though <_<!)
Although if set up well it will simulate the skills and co-ordination needed for racing, it will never give the feeling of being there.
Although if set up well it will simulate the skills and co-ordination needed for racing, it will never give the feeling of being there.
Quite so. Nobody could genuinely claim that. I don't think anyone actually is. But if Tristan says that he can and does cross-apply experiences and principles in LFS and F3 to their mutual benefit, it's a bit strange/whacky if someone then comes along and says that he doesn't. If Tristan does, he does. That's not really something anyone can contradict.
lol u cannot be serious can u? brakes overheat, clutches overheat, this affects both the biting surface (clutch pads, brake pads) as well as the fluid, these factors change the biting point, pedal slack, and braking/clutch force. this is just one of the many little issues u face on the track and a good driver is able to overcome.
dont suffer fear? um, thats not good, fear is what makes driving so fun. fear causes a natural reaction in ur body with adrenaline and all those lovely drugs which make you feel good inside as well as sharpening your mind and extra physical strength, this is why you race your car at high speeds and not play golf instead.
i guarentee you the top level drivers have fear, everyone has fear, if you dont you have a defect, simple as that, fear is built into the human genes to help, not hinder. the difference is the top level drivers have the confidence to counteract the fear, having over confidence as an inexperienced driver is not safe, they are still not really experienced enough to be driving with massive confidence, it can often lead to crashes, going in harder but not really having the skill to deal with the extra speed etc.
this is why it is normal to lack confidence, as well as beneficial, it allows you to slowly get used to the track and build up skill and familiarity with driving at the same time as you build up ur confidence. the only thing that can really change this is simply build up ur confidence at the same time as you build up your skill.
nisskid, I don't get it. Is this the old black is white debate transposed onto whether or not Tristan exists? I've seen the videos, I'm sure it's really him racing F3.
shifting my position? no. elaborating on it? yes.
i have never criticized LFS so much, i believe it is a great simulator, one of if not the best, closest you can get to driving through a video game. but thats just it, its just a video game, it cannot properly simulate all aspects of real life driving, it can only touch on a few. obviously as you add on things like steering wheels etc it helps with some of those aspects, as well as advancing the game to feature things like clutch fade, brake fade, tyre wear, things that you deal with during racing, but it still cant simulate some of the most important things, things which will dramatically affect your driving in real life. once again, things like sense of speed, forces, safety etc etc.
i dont doubt it, i think the post u are referring to, is the one about fear. im not saying he doesnt race, but i think it's naive of him to think he doesnt suffer from fear, thats the kind of statement id expect from a 15 year old.
But nobody actually IS arguing that it's an alternative to real-life racing, or that it simulates every aspect. Even LFS, good though it is, doesn't simulate every aspect, let alone do simulate them accurately or not. It doesn't pretend to. As has been said, it simulates the more important ones.
You seem to be intent on contradicting some real-life comparisons and observations, though, and it's not bolstering your argument at all.
How can you say that Tristan is naive to think he doesn't suffer from fear. I mean.. how arrogant do you have to be to tell Tristan what he himself does or doesn't experience?
You seem to be intent on contradicting some real-life comparisons and observations, though, and it's not bolstering your argument at all.
How can you say that Tristan is naive to think he doesn't suffer from fear. I mean.. how arrogant do you have to be to tell Tristan what he himself does or doesn't experience?
Well I am sure that you can apply skills from each to the other.
When someone does push ups, they don't do it because they want to apply it to doing more push ups, or at least most of us don't.
LFS could be seen as a contained training session that is convenient.
I think it becomes more of a matter of opinion and how a person reacts to both racing and LFS. I know that if I played a soccer-ball kicking simulator for a long time, I would do fine. But on the field, I might get nervous or anxious and mess up. Others might not be affected by the pressure of the game, making the simulation a bit more effective.
I think I made a point, but if I am rambling again you should just disregard everything, I'm tired today.
That's your opinion. I just happen to share it. So does Tristan, I think. At least, if I read him correctly.
Some people who watch a film become very immersed in it. Even blokes have been known to lose sleep after a proper horror movie. This is all about the willing suspension of disbelief. LFS can, for some people, offer a similar depth of experience. There are races in LFS that I remember as if I were there, in real life.. much less to do with anything other than how involved I was in the race, and how absorbed I was in the action. One point that Tristan's made either here, or in another thread recently, is that LFS very rarely wakes you up with a response or characteristic that makes you think "Waaaait a minute.. that shouldn't have happened..." Of course, hitting moonride barriers are the exception
no, ur not getting it, im targeting the people that say they will be good drivers and instantly be able to get good times in real life on their first day out just because they have played LFS. this is the same as saying that LFS is so closely related with real life that u can simply get up from ur computer, get in a race car and transfer ur skills from LFS straight to real life.
its like saying someone doesnt shit, its inbuilt to the human gene to fear, it helps with driving, if he doesnt experience fear then something is defected in him, not having fear will hinder his performance.
Ahh okay.. I've missed these folks' posts completely. I didn't know anyone was actually claiming that, because they can drive in LFS, they're experienced track racers and able to take on the world or whatever. I've seen what I think is probably 11-year-old mentalities, but they apply to everything, not just LFS and racing, and their points are entirely moot. You just think.. "kids" and roll your eyes.
Well who knows if that is true, we can't really say for sure whether it is possible or not.
I have read about a study showing that surgeons performed better on their patients after playing skill and co-ordination challenging games for about an hour on the Nintendo Wii.
After repeating an action often, your muscles seem to store memory of them, and when the situation arises, you react to it any way you know how. It's entirely possible that LiveForSpeed CAN affect your racing positively, in my opinion.
EDIT - ARGH misread, sorry, I am quite tired. I mixed up "That say they will be" with "They are".
I think people must experience fear of different types or at different levels. I'm perfectly happy to accept Tristan at his word. I know I wouldn't get in his F3 and race because I have more fear than he does.. I look at those front suspension struts, and I can see them trying to stab me in the leg at the first corner.
It holds no appeal for me.. fear factor, and some people experience it more and some less, and that variable level is as much a part of the genome as the existence of fear at all.
Depends on what you mean by "good times", but didn't Chaos just say that you can? Not everybody of course. And the best LFS'ers aren't necessary the fastest learners for real racing. But there are people who could adapt those differently placed controls and g-forces in less than a day.
Seems to me that in fact the skills ARE transferable. They HAVE BEEN transferred. If you can't transfer them, nisskid, look within.
Im with nisskid, because you are a good driver on LFS, it doesn't mean you're a good driver in RL, in RL, you have fear, and if you damage your car, it costs, you can't simply Shift+P and get it fixed, or if you crash, you can't Shift+P and everything's fine, and away you go. In RL, you crash, chances are, at least, it hurts, and you constantly have this in your mind (be it at the back of, or front of), whereas in LFS, at all times, whether you try to make it feel as though its RL, you are constantly aware that if you crash, woopdidoo, Shift+P, s'all good.
One point I would like to make however, is that LFS definately increases understanding of physics, and how the forces affect the car, however, you don't see how the physics affect the driver, and so, how you'd react to the different maneuvers.
One point I would like to make however, is that LFS definately increases understanding of physics, and how the forces affect the car, however, you don't see how the physics affect the driver, and so, how you'd react to the different maneuvers.
Simple Question : LFS = REAL LIFE ?
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