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VTEC sound?
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(209 posts, started )
#126 - Lord_Verminaard
Quote from alex_nz :Man some people talk some shit.

Honda make amazing n/a motors with fantastic power for their size.


Maybe they do, but Civic's are still slow. An EX runs the 1/4 at what, 17 seconds? An Si runs at 16?? That's slow, at least where I come from. Hell, my V6 Camaro with iron block, iron heads, runs a 15.2.... My little Scirocco runs a 15.4!!! It's got an iron block, only 8 valves, and mechanical fuel injection! That's old technology there folks.

Quote from alex_nz :
It cracks me up when people hassle a b16a motor making over 110kw at the wheels. Thats 110kw at the wheels from a 1600 with I/H/E... not bad power per ltr....

Again, the car could make a million hp, but in the real world, how fast is it? I agree with you to a point, I love anything that makes good power and has some engineering appeal, and I guess Honda's are novel in that respect, but this whole scene where everyone thinks they are the new sport car is so messed up, when you have $1000 in mods to a Civic and they are running like 15.8's.....


Brendan
#127 - alex_nz
Quote from Lord_Verminaard :Again, the car could make a million hp, but in the real world, how fast is it?

I have seen heaps of da6 integra's over here pulling low 14's from a motor i described above. Thats a 1.6ltr.

I have seen loads of them with a b18c chucked in reach into 13's with no stress.

Going on about how an outdated low power per ltr motor makes ok power is nothing special, a smaller engine making much more power per leter is far more interesting from an mechanical point of view, and like I said in a lightish da6 14's is easy with very basic breather mods.
#128 - lrdbsi
totaly agree i used to have a gen 2 '90 xsi b16a2. ya theres alot of performance import cars here, we have few of the near fastest cars that exist,
new zealand is under-rated for motorsport and performance
but gas is to expensive here sold up for a CBR250R mc19, peace
yo alex, where are u at in nz?
#129 - alex_nz
cbr250r?!?!? man im hoping to get one of those this year.

Im in chch. Where you at?
#130 - Viper93
Quote from alex_nz :I have seen heaps of da6 integra's over here pulling low 14's from a motor i described above. Thats a 1.6ltr.

I have seen loads of them with a b18c chucked in reach into 13's with no stress.

Going on about how an outdated low power per ltr motor makes ok power is nothing special, a smaller engine making much more power per leter is far more interesting from an mechanical point of view, and like I said in a lightish da6 14's is easy with very basic breather mods.

import tuners are overrated I ran a 13.77 in my stock SRT-4
#131 - ShannonN
Quote from wheel4hummer :Well, for some reason ricers have orgasms when their honda's VTEC swiches the camshaft profiles. Heres an example: http://videos.streetfire.net/P ... 7EFB47E&kw=37&p=0

Hee Hee sounded like someone sawing thru plywood with a small rotary saw
#132 - keltern
Quote from Viper93 :import tuners are overrated I ran a 13.77 in my stock SRT-4

isn't the SRT-4 more like a wannabe japanese car? lol! i think it's far more rice than any honda!
#133 - Shinanigans
#134 - Munza
rofl Shinanigans
#135 - george_tsiros
Can someone, honestly, give me an explanation why even people with serious car improvements stick the brand names on the doors?

Do they get a discount when they get them installed, or something?
#136 - Viper93
Quote from keltern :isn't the SRT-4 more like a wannabe japanese car? lol! i think it's far more rice than any honda!

It's nothing like a wannabe japaneese car. I actually have an engine that produces torque, with all driveline and engine components being rated for 350+ HP from the factory. They did give it a tuner look, but what else could they do with a FWD car and have it marketable? The SRT-4 engine is a hemi engine, dodge just doesn't say that part too loud. I have not heard of any FWD's from any manufacturer running 13.7's stock in the 1/4. The new civic has a chance at 14 flat I think, but your going to have to wait for the HP, not like my car, at 2400 I have full boost and toque with the HP coming on fast, redline is 6240. Even the new civic, which costs the same new as the SRT-4 did only runs 15.1 in the 1/4. Not to mention that it's running 11.1/1 compression, thats racecar territory.

Have you heard an SRT-4 exhaust? I will get a clip for you right now. Rice? it sounds nothing like a civic with a tin can off the back. those guys might as well go buy a Jumbo can of Cambells soup, cut holes to place in the exhaust and run that, would do the same thingillepall

Edit: srry if I sound like I am a complete civic hater, I do like them but they are not the best choice out there by far for good engines. I made the sound clip but now I have to get it onto my computer I need a USB to S-video cable, I am going shopping tonight.
#137 - Shinanigans
Quote from george_tsiros :Can someone, honestly, give me an explanation why even people with serious car improvements stick the brand names on the doors?

Do they get a discount when they get them installed, or something?

Generally, no.

They put the stickers on the side of their cars to show off. "oooh look i have HKS parts in my engine" when in reality, they probably have a HKS radiator cap or something crap like that.

When it comes to proper racing it's a different story. Sponsors pay the person to put their sticker on the side of their race car. The sponsor gets advertising and the car owner gets money.
#138 - Munza
Quote from Shinanigans :
When it comes to proper racing it's a different story. Sponsors pay the person to put their sticker on the side of their race car. The sponsor gets advertising and the car owner gets money.

Not just racecars dude, companies like alpine etc will sponsor u if ur gonna go n buy their ultimate sound system and enter sound off comps or wtf ever those pointless things are, they'll then sponsor u therefor letting u have the good shit cheaper as well as paying u to put their logo all ovr your car
#139 - steve
#140 - lalathegreat
lol
#141 - lrdbsi
my brother just brought a 97 integra type r (white duh) and it has mild work
extractors intake chip and injectors, this thing looses hard traction when snapping 3rd gear and still makes squeaks hitting 4th, my mate has a skyline gts4, rb20det (slow peace of shit, but has 4wd/rwd switch which is all good)
my brothers car makes this inline 6 tubro charged doch look like a turtle, and it has work, front mount, filter etc, normal boyracer shit, i have a cbr900rr now hehe im done for cars peace,
#142 - wheel4hummer
You need more displacement in an OHC engine to generate the same power as a DOHC engine with less displacement. For example, the C6 Z06 and the F430 are have about equal engines (well, close enough). The LS7 needs 427ci to output slightly more power then the F430's <5 liter. (I dont know how big the F430 engine is). But, it is much cheaper to develop a big small block V8 then that ferrari engine. So, I'll choose the vette.
#143 - Vain
I would support a variable valve timing engine in LFS. That would nicely show off LFS's sound potential as LFS's sound engine can deal with variable valve timings without further processing.
This makes the honda fans happy and even delights the realism-fans, as the engine's sound will be properly represented.

Oh, and wheel4hummer: Don't be so stereotypical american. Over here you fiddle with compression or aspiration when you want to increase power. Displacement is only for fuel consumption and sound. :wink:
( j/k )

Vain
#144 - Viper93
I am still confused as to why someone would want VVT in a race engine? Can someone help me with this?

With VVT you get less power and less torque than you would if you had a cam that was perminent. With this you get a very peaky power and torque curve, I have never heard of any racers actually wanting peaky power.

It would make sense to be to have a level torque curve with a linear power curve just after the troque curve that is present through all RPM ranges.
#145 - Blowtus
you have managed to interpret the benefits of vvt completely backwards viper

Also - a level (or as close as possible) torque curve would make no sense, from an engine design perspective. You would be making compromises in peak torque and power to attain this 'level' goal, which would serve no real use since race engines spend the vast majority of their time at high rpm. VVT could be put to use in a race engine for more torque down low, while maintaining torque up high.
#146 - tristancliffe
Yeah, it's not so much the fact that the high rpm cams are peaky, but that the pre-vtec cams are very lazy and you're missing out on loads of power. Why not just have the good cams all the way and let the engine perform properly.

VTEC Fanboys - "I love VTEC because it means my car is artificially restricted below 5000rpm to make it easy for me to drive". Big girls blouses, the lot of them
#147 - Vain
Quote from Viper93 :I am still confused as to why someone would want VVT in a race engine? Can someone help me with this?

You take your street car, put a racing cage and new seats into it, rip some more weight from it and declare it a race car - with a stock engine.
That's how these engines get to the track.

Vain
#148 - Viper93
Well this stock engine has a very flat torque curve.

Blowtus: I agree with you on that you have to compromise, but peak power means nothing if you only have it there for a 1-2k RPM. To me it does not make sense to create the most power out of an engine if you can create a smooth power curve that has an even and/or smooth amount of power over many RPM's giving you much more flexability on how you drive and setup the car.

Maybe I am missing on how exactly VVT works. I have always assumed that it was for people that wanted a daily driver that got good gas milage that when you stepped on it gave you some more ponies to work with.

Maybe part of my problem is too that I grew up with American V8's and I never had to wait for the power to come in like you have to wait for in a VVT engine. I hate having to wait, no matter what RPM I am in I want some kind of power, be it either torque or HP.

I looked at some VTEC dyno's they are not as peaky as I thought. I just don't like having to revv the crap out of something to have anything to work with.

Vain: I know they do but I am still confused as to why someone would want to race an engine like that, but alot less confused now. I think it's more down to now that I just hate the idea of waiting. True in racing you would normally be in the higher RPMs, but nobody is perfect and especally with production classes you are not going to be able to change gear ratio's to make sure your in your power band for every corner. Maybe if I took a Civic Si out on a track it might be different but I just don't think the Civic engines are the best solution for a race engine.

Tristian: maybe thats why I thought they were peaky, the new dyno's look good, but you still have to wait until 5k to get any power. I mean jeez I am already close to my peak power by then =) Turbo kicks in at 1700RPM in the SRT-4.
Attached images
SRT-4 Dyno.jpg
#149 - lrdbsi
Quote from tristancliffe :Yeah, it's not so much the fact that the high rpm cams are peaky, but that the pre-vtec cams are very lazy and you're missing out on loads of power. Why not just have the good cams all the way and let the engine perform properly.

why not?, cause the power is only needed in the high rpms and my vtec with vtec controller showed a loss on hp when i changed change over from 5200rpm (roughly) to 2500rpm, honda knows wat the are doing i-vtec works through the intire rpm featured in the newer hondas, *intelligent variable valve timing life electronic controll, lol when i changed vtec change over to 7500rpm it sounded nutz, specialy with my exhust dumping next to my door
#150 - Blowtus
Quote from Viper93 :Blowtus: I agree with you on that you have to compromise, but peak power means nothing if you only have it there for a 1-2k RPM. To me it does not make sense to create the most power out of an engine if you can create a smooth power curve that has an even and/or smooth amount of power over many RPM's giving you much more flexability on how you drive and setup the car.

Peak power over 1-2k rpms is pretty much everything for a race car... if it drops off sharply to either side it will be nasty to drive, but it can still be driven fast. Unlike if it doesn't have that peak power in the first place, it will be easy to drive and slower.
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VTEC sound?
(209 posts, started )
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