Seeing as the thread was closed for other reasons, apart from looking at a comparison between CTRA and iRacing, I think it's a valid thread and as far as I see CTRA was first in many of the aspects.

Couldn't the posts that take it out of context be deleted instead of closing a valid thread. Would be nicer to delete the comments rather than gloat over someone's comments....

Actually, I agree. I think debating the similarities and differences between the two systems has merit, and could benefit CTRA (he said selfishly) or LFS as a whole (if it did, in some small way, that'd be great).

So, Sam, Becky, with respect, I am going to take "ownership" of this thread. I will moderate it, and remove or edit any posts that I deem unconstructive. If you want to PM me about it, I'll be happy to explain why, but I don't think it's either on-topic or constructive to discuss here. My moderating of this forum so far has been limited to locking threads, but things are going too far.

To everyone: If you don't agree to this, don't post in this thread. It's that simple.

Now, have at it!

I think it looks like a great concept but I dont think I will be inclined to spend the money, personally, whilst there is the LFS alternative. But we'll see, LFS lacks atmosphere and immersion sometimes and if iRacing delivers that maybe it will be worth it?

I think Sam hit the nail on the head in the last thread.......

When people are paying monthly for a game, I think the accounts department will be very careful who is banned and who isn't as that has a huge affect on their revenue

I think it's a bit early to be tarnishing them with the money grabbing brush, they may take it extremely seriously and even post report results for anyone to view like the CTRA.

It's easy to be judgemental because we know we already have a good thing here, but that doesnt meen iRacing wont produce a good thing either. They've had plenty of time to get their product right so i'd rather judge it when I see it.

It's definately something to think about. What are the motivations of those that are enforcing the rules? What are the conflicting interests?

With real life motorsport you get rumours that the governing bodies are pressured by high-profile teams that bring a lot of money to the sport. At the moment this isn't something that's a problem for LFS.

For gaming it's a little different. At least with things like Steam, if you're caught cheating they ban you and they've already got your money. You've got to buy it again to try cheating again. It soon becomes an expensive pursuit.

I wonder how this will work for a subscription service - will they ban your credit card from just signing up another username? Will they block it for just a month? On a Pay-Up-Front payment model it's far more expensive to keep cheating and getting caught than it is just to play fair.

On subscription based services it won't cost any more to just sign up a new account each month.

It's really had to say about iracing.

1. It seems it will be for hardcore simracers and people that want to use it for practice in the real world. Kinda like a no noobs allowed policy without saying out right with big bold lettering at the top of their webpage.

2. As much time and money they have put into to make a hardcore sim community I don't think they will have any problems banning people that attempt to ruin it. But, there is always that bottom line that has to be met and I think they have millions invested in this project. From my understanding John Henry loves simracing with a passion and wants to be the best. I think he is privately funding iracing. Honestly though anybody who is going to pay to play a game like iracing isn't going to mess about too much I would think.

WOW bans and deletes accounts all the time for people that get caught selling them on Ebay or other mediums. Then again WOW has like 10 million active accounts so they aren't hurting.

I suppose we will wait and see. I haven't decided if I'm even going to try it yet. I still have some improvement to make in LFS. I've only been racing 3 months.

It's just too expensive. Launching a subscription service like that - especially in the current economic climate and with such a niche market - just doesn't seem practical.

Anyone who's got an LFS license can use the CTRA servers, and they've had what - 10,000-ish unique users? That's based on a product that has been steadily growing a userbase for four years. How many would it have been if they'd charged a monthly subscription, and the tracks/cars on offer were as US-centric as the iRacing offering?

I know it's not out yet so any judgement is premature, but it seems like a really bad idea to me. They need to have an absolute genre-defining world-beater of a sim in development if they expect people to buy into it like that.

Kev, try doublicating your figure. In my opinion though, I don't think that iRacing will work too well, seeing most people who play sims are either in the ISI bin or the LFS bin, and that's the thing. Some people like the modability of the ISI parts, and some like the entire online experience of LFS. iRacing brings no modability, an absolutely ridiculous business model, and because of the former points, chances are high of a bad online experience because who has 180$ a year to spend on a Sim, and that's not even with the enmasse of tracks you could need to buy for any number of leagues or other such events.

Although they've really given themselves a great excuse to get a bunch of money to develop a sim that them and 3 other people will play.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Kev, try doublicating your figure.

Well, even with 20,000 people - how many hours do most of them log? You've probably got a few hundred regulars (LFS only has a few hundred regulars) and if you were charging monthly for access to your servers then only a fraction of those hardcore few would be paying. And that's why I don't think iRacing's subscription model will work. Even with a proven sim like LFS it wouldn't be practical.

This is largely off-topic, so please accept my apologies.. you got me wondering. Since Sept last year we've been storing the date that individuals last connected, so we've got nearly a full 6 month result now. One thing I've learned about CTRAers, since launching the CTRA site, is how much they love stats!

I've just been through the database to pull out some numbers. For anyone that's interested, these are the total number of users in each of the months they last connected..


These are unique LFS licences, not necessarily unique individuals. Fairly close to, though, I should think.

It's a fairly high drop-off rate over six months.. we'd better not show iRacing these numbers, they may be a bit disheartened by that rate.. over 11,000 fall-off over six months is a big %.

Quote from SamH :

11,000 fall-off over six months is a big %.

11,000 would be a very big percentage, were it a percentage.

LOL! Hell yeah!

Well if your iRacing and have set out what the cost to run your sim is you know before hand you better have a top notch product. There are things called "charg backs" for credit card users. Easy to call your credit card company and get the charges reversed if in fact you arent getting what your paying for.

I like this from the iRacing site:
iRacing.com's simulations are not video games. Thanks to proprietary technology, the iRacing.com simulations include unprecedented accuracy of track replication and vehicle-handling dynamics. With curbing, cracks, patches, and other trackside features recreated with precision measured in millimeters, and a physics engine and tire model that reproduce the feel of each particular car with absolute fidelity; the result is an experience so authentic that professional racers and experienced amateurs can hone their skills prior to on-track competition or testing.

Thats pretty heavy stuff...are they acting on a no newb policy?

Tracks with milimetre accuracy and car feel of absolute fidelity.. these are a tall order when..

Quote from iracing.com FAQs :

we expect that the average home PC currently available in stores will be sufficient.

I can't help feeling that something in the promises made, or the PC required to run it, will have to give

But surely a computer game developer wouldn't talk shit in their press releases, would they?

I smell vinegar. No, that's not an obscure metaphor - I really can smell vinegar and I don't know where it's coming from.

Chippy nearby?

The first moon mission and landing was controlled on mainframe computers with a combined power less than a 486 (that's ore Pentium for the kids reading).

Most of the computing power used in modern games is used to drive graphical effects and in the case of sum racing, duplication (multiple cars).

Clever programming, like LFS' use of both a complex (near) and simple (far) physics can achieve amazing optimization, lowering graphics settings (Gp4 couldn't run on max graphics for years after release), and reducing field size can also speed things up (LFS once had much less cars on track).

Accuracy of a Tarmac change is a measurement detail and not a system overhead.

Of course iRacing are in marketting hype atm, but if the physics are as good as LFS' and the cars and tracks are real, then Hell Yeah.

It is a bit hard to compare CTRA and iracing when the other one is just press releases and hype

Quote from Hyperactive :

It is a bit hard to compare CTRA and iracing when the other one is just press releases and hype

I agree, who's going to put the tin hat on and be the guinea pig?

I have a laptop to pay for, so I nominate... Tristan.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I have a laptop to pay for, so I nominate... Tristan.

Hehe seconded, I just bought new tires =)

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I have a laptop to pay for, so I nominate... Tristan.

Ummm...thirded? Passport + flights to pay for here

I nominate Tristan. I can't afford it, since I just bought a classic 1968 Aston Martin DB6

Quote from SamH :

I nominate Tristan. I can't afford it, since I just bought a classic 1968 Aston Martin DB6

You don't actually have a DB6. Note the lack of a question mark - I refuse to look as gullible as I actually am.