Did you review the footage, duketoaster? Any good LFS racer should have enough common sense to know such situation was potentially dangerous and had to be avoided. Don't blame Ferrari, blame McLaren. They deserved it fully.

And stop shifting attention to Ferrari, it's really annoying, and makes some people look very, very stupid.

Sorry Duke, but can you show me some footage of other teams/drivers idling back to the pits on the racing line? Or was it, as the FIA have decreed, just McLaren?

So come on, if you want to jump on the Ferrari assistance bandwagon, at least show us where your evidence lies... I'll be waiting.

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari have had biased decisions. Just like McLaren, Renault, Williams. Some people only see what they want to see...

Before blaming the FIA for setting McLaren back five places you might want to consider that the only reason McLaren is allowed to compete this year at all is because that same FIA was willing to listen to the arguments of Ecclestone and his fellow 'money-men' on September 13th, 2007. Perhaps they are not so biased after all.

Besides, five places isn't all that bad. McLaren has constructed a good car which should give their two drivers plenty of opportunity to compete. Should it rain as some think, then it doesn't really matter at all.

Quote from dungbeetle :

The FIA don't seem to have thought much about all the possible implications of the rules they have introduced here.

Why ain't i surprised at that

I'd agree, I hate Ferrari as much as the next "OMG FERRARI SUX TEH MAN MEAT" shouter, but Mclaren could be much better at returning. There really could be better designs though, the fuel load does make it semi entertaining, but then creates morons sandbagging back to pits. A true quali session where you can go as fast as you can for the final session would be better though, and allow them to fuel then. Keep the existing format, but change the fuel rules on it.

I think the qualifying needs to be scrapped and completely rethought, partly on grounds of safety, partly on grounds of making it interesting and mainly on grounds of stopping this chain of dumbing down motorsport until we get the grid picked out of a hat. What about a 60 minute session with each driver allowed to do 12 laps on whatever fuel and setup they desire? It was a perfectly good system that gave much more exciting and less predictable qualifying than either of the systems that have followed it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Otac0zh0FGw

Quite clear who the offending drivers are in that video. Two McLarens parked on the racing line, the rest well out of the way on the right hand side...

The onboard camera is impressive, just imagine what Heidfeld might have thought.
This is a longer version with additional footage that shows the situation from the outside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3_GjtJ9SIY

Edit: the video has been removed due to copyright claims, so it's no longer available.

Did I spot a McLaren changing sides after Heidfeld went past, just as Alonso was coming? Or was it Alonso in the background (if so, I thought he was a bit further back).

It was a McLaren.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Did I spot a McLaren changing sides after Heidfeld went past, just as Alonso was coming? Or was it Alonso in the background (if so, I thought he was a bit further back).

Looks like one of them went to pull over after Heidfeld went past, possibly as he realised there was quick traffic coming.

That, or he was trying to get in the way of whoever it was coming from behind. It was definately a McLaren, though.

It was Lewis, and Alonso was too far behind to be hindered by him.

Thing is, if the two Macca's were penalised, why not the car on the corner exit at the start of these clips ?

Quote from ajp71 :

What about a 60 minute session with each driver allowed to do 12 laps on whatever fuel and setup they desire?

yes yes YES
but 1 session instead of 2 and timing it in a way that makes the track conditions change randomly during the session

The cars were both on the racing line when Heidfeld passed them. The fact that one of them (not sure of the identity, I've read controversial reports) moved off the line after his passage demonstrates some kind of awareness of being in the wrong place, but only after Heidfeld passed.

Whether this grants a different level of punishment for each McLaren driver or not, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. And if it is, should the 'more offending' McLaren driver be punished for more than five positions, or should the other one have a reduction to say, two or three positions on the grid? Not that I care to know since I'm fine with FIA's decision about the punishment; but like many others I feel disturbed by FIA's apparent lack of awareness.

Quote from mythdat :

Had do be done, the McLarens were just plain dangerous...

I think they deserved the penalties.

Quote from mythdat :

p.s. I forsee another Trulli Train

And at least a month into the 2008 championship before we see the Ferraris and McLarens actually race eachother for more than half a lap. I'll be doing my rain dance - I suggest you do the same.

If it rains it'll be the race to see who can get out of the sandtraps first. Sorta like it was at The 'Ring last year.

My guess is that the first pass of the year will be at Istanbul.

This rain looks really hard though, I wonder if the race will even commence.

I hadn't seen the video before, that's scary from the onboard and I wouldn't be suprised if a better system was demanded mid-season if not the next race on grounds of safety a rear end shunt with that closing speed doesn't bare thinking about and they were weaving through virtually stationary cars not just passing one

I think individual blame isn't really relevant in this case, you simply cannot drive a car round that slowly safely and the rules shouldn't be encouraging drivers to do so.

Anybody know what time the race starts? The TV coverage starts at 6.15 GMT so I guess the race start is at 7.00?

yep, 7am gmt

Bloody hell cant believe im still awake, went out on this piss last night, got home...put lfs on, looked at clock and it was 5am!!! Man i might aswell stay up and watch f1, but that means no sleep untill 9am

PS... have you seen the snow

Quote from ajp71 :

I think the qualifying needs to be scrapped and completely rethought, partly on grounds of safety, partly on grounds of making it interesting and mainly on grounds of stopping this chain of dumbing down motorsport until we get the grid picked out of a hat. What about a 60 minute session with each driver allowed to do 12 laps on whatever fuel and setup they desire? It was a perfectly good system that gave much more exciting and less predictable qualifying than either of the systems that have followed it.

Quote from Shotglass :

yes yes YES
but 1 session instead of 2 and timing it in a way that makes the track conditions change randomly during the session

Yeah. Let's go back to the waiting game of someone to appear on the track to do one or two fast laps. It was always the same. Waiting half of the quali time to just see the cars do the 1st safe fast lap and then going back to pits. Then 20min more waiting and then the more risky attempt for the best lap. Sorry but it wasn't as good system as you make it .

The current system is quite good but the last Q is just plain stupid. Just let them drive with as light cars as possible in the 3rd quali.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Did I spot a McLaren changing sides after Heidfeld went past, just as Alonso was coming? Or was it Alonso in the background (if so, I thought he was a bit further back).

Heidfeld was disturbed by both McLarens. After he passed Hamilton moved off the racing line and Alonso was disturbed only by Kovalainen.

And I agree with Hyperactive. The old 60 minute free quali wasn´t really good. It was just backmarkers showing their sponsor logos for the first 30-40 minutes. And a real madness in the last few minutes.

Awesome pass by Heidfeld

loved the start