WTC 7 may be a small issue in and of itself, especially compared to WTC 1&2, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania, but it's still an unanswered question. As such it's one of many unanswered questions regarding 9/11 and is also symptomatic of the massive culture of inexplicable governmental secrecy and enormous pressure to find a scapegoat & go to war that immediately sprang up in response to it. Once you think about the "2+2=5" of WTC 7 you start noticing many other questions haven't been addressed sufficiently and before you know it, you're not sure who to believe - but you know you can't believe what's being pushed at you, whether you want to or not.
One of the main reasons I don't believe conspiracy theorists is because the US government would never kill 5,000 of our own people. Period. It is as likely as Australia deciding to nuke Perth, despite what people would have you believe about the US. Al-Qaeda took took responsibility for the attacks and the identities of the Saudi attackers are known. People died that day and all people want to do is trivialize it with puffs of smoke and use American lives as ammo for argument against the government. The governments of all of our countries have to make decisions every day that we would loathe to have to make. True, bush has made a lot of wrong choices, but I like to think that even he always has the best interests of the citizens of the US in mind.
Then you have more faith in Bush than he deserves.
9/11 theories aside, you said it yourself: al-Qaeda took responsibility for the attacks (not the Afghan regime - and no, the Taliban sheltering al-Qaeda does not consitute grounds for an invasion any more than Iraq's non-existent WMDs or non-existent links to al-Qaeda did) and the hijackers were Saudi (not Iraqi, not Afghani) - so why the hell are there a million dead Afghans & Iraqis and why have 4000 more Americans died in those countries? People opposed to the war(s) want those questions answered and they're angry that a straight answer from the Whitehouse is harder to come by than a bacon sandwich in Jerusalem. When people are angry and denied the truth, they start asking themselves why the truth isn't forthcoming. A side-effect of not knowing and really wanting to know is providing one's own answers, filling in the blanks in the form of speculation and theorising, which can sometimes get out of hand. Religions do that kind of gap-filling all the time - got a hole in your knowledge? God can fill it. But that's another thread.
9/11 theories aside, you said it yourself: al-Qaeda took responsibility for the attacks (not the Afghan regime - and no, the Taliban sheltering al-Qaeda does not consitute grounds for an invasion any more than Iraq's non-existent WMDs or non-existent links to al-Qaeda did) and the hijackers were Saudi (not Iraqi, not Afghani) - so why the hell are there a million dead Afghans & Iraqis and why have 4000 more Americans died in those countries? People opposed to the war(s) want those questions answered and they're angry that a straight answer from the Whitehouse is harder to come by than a bacon sandwich in Jerusalem. When people are angry and denied the truth, they start asking themselves why the truth isn't forthcoming. A side-effect of not knowing and really wanting to know is providing one's own answers, filling in the blanks in the form of speculation and theorising, which can sometimes get out of hand. Religions do that kind of gap-filling all the time - got a hole in your knowledge? God can fill it. But that's another thread.
yadda yadda blah blah
What really bugs me is how neatly the towers fell. It was amazingly astronomically good luck that they didn't fall over. Kind of unbelievable if you ask me. Still it might be inheritant to the way the towers were build. I dunno. I'm not a building engineer.
What really bugs me is how neatly the towers fell. It was amazingly astronomically good luck that they didn't fall over. Kind of unbelievable if you ask me. Still it might be inheritant to the way the towers were build. I dunno. I'm not a building engineer.
Yeah my first thought when i saw the towers fall was "oh come on!".
And a (corrupt part of) government killing it's citizens does not seem unbelieveable to me at all. It's all just a little bit of history repeating..
And a (corrupt part of) government killing it's citizens does not seem unbelieveable to me at all. It's all just a little bit of history repeating..
Of course the US government would never take any action which may put it's citizens at risk then lie about it. Or would they ?
Exactly 54 years back, on January 27, 1951, the U.S. carried out its first nuclear test. The site was the desert State of Nevada that borders Salt Lake City. Earlier tests had been done in the Pacific Ocean. The Korean conflict in 1953 required a cheaper testing site to maintain superiority of the U.S. nuclear weapons. The decision to test nuclear bombs in the desert was based on both strategic and economic reasons.
Similar tests were carried out subsequently with the assurance that all steps had been taken to ward off any health risks to the citizens living in these areas. While the tests were successful, it put in danger the lives of thousands of Americans and the generations that followed.
The most affected are those living in the neighbouring state of Utah, who have been exposed to radiation. Facts from official bodies are people's claims in wanting a nuclear-free zone.
The National Cancer Institute (NCI) in its 1997 report admitted that fallout from the 1950s atomic bomb tests blanketed the nation at levels far in excess of what the government has admitted now or in the past. According to the NCI study, the worst case scenario is that 2,12,000 cases of thyroid cancer alone are likely to be related to testing of the Iodine 131 radioactive isotope — the basis of this study — which is only one of many produced by the processes that powered these tests.
Or you could try looking at Operation Northwoods, which bares some surprising similarities to 9/11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[13]
Exactly 54 years back, on January 27, 1951, the U.S. carried out its first nuclear test. The site was the desert State of Nevada that borders Salt Lake City. Earlier tests had been done in the Pacific Ocean. The Korean conflict in 1953 required a cheaper testing site to maintain superiority of the U.S. nuclear weapons. The decision to test nuclear bombs in the desert was based on both strategic and economic reasons.
Similar tests were carried out subsequently with the assurance that all steps had been taken to ward off any health risks to the citizens living in these areas. While the tests were successful, it put in danger the lives of thousands of Americans and the generations that followed.
The most affected are those living in the neighbouring state of Utah, who have been exposed to radiation. Facts from official bodies are people's claims in wanting a nuclear-free zone.
The National Cancer Institute (NCI) in its 1997 report admitted that fallout from the 1950s atomic bomb tests blanketed the nation at levels far in excess of what the government has admitted now or in the past. According to the NCI study, the worst case scenario is that 2,12,000 cases of thyroid cancer alone are likely to be related to testing of the Iodine 131 radioactive isotope — the basis of this study — which is only one of many produced by the processes that powered these tests.
Or you could try looking at Operation Northwoods, which bares some surprising similarities to 9/11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[13]
Northwoods is a grim, evil chapter in American history and considering the paranoid secrecy and depraved indifference to life, foreign or domestic, of the current regime (which puts even Nixon's reign to shame) I really wouldn't put any nefarious, Machiavellian machination past them. But, naturally, I reserve judgement until evidence is presented 
I'm a student at uni doing civil engineering so I figure I know a little about this stuff.
But to get a proper and accurate answer you'd need to sit down, with all the data, and work it all out. and only the guys on the commision have that.
From what i've read though, the two towers story seems legit. As in i don't feel there would've been a need for explosives.
WTC7 though, is another story, that's got dodgy written all over it and really doesn't make much sense.
The "hi-jacker" story, also has plenty of holes, though I've got no idea what the truth is, i know that the official story simply doesn't add up with the fact that some of the alleged people are still alive.
Also, did everyone forget about the pentagon? Now that one is really weird...
The telephone or power poles that got knocked down cause the plane was flying so low? that just sounds so wrong... but whatever, the main thing i'd be pissed about is that all video footage was confiscated.
I mean they could shut everyone up if they just released it.
Although since it's been so long i'm sure some nutball would say they were just stalling for time to edit it.
Anyways, the whole thing is dodgy, but i don't really care anymore, it's not my country, hopefully the total story will come out one day.
But to get a proper and accurate answer you'd need to sit down, with all the data, and work it all out. and only the guys on the commision have that.
From what i've read though, the two towers story seems legit. As in i don't feel there would've been a need for explosives.
WTC7 though, is another story, that's got dodgy written all over it and really doesn't make much sense.
The "hi-jacker" story, also has plenty of holes, though I've got no idea what the truth is, i know that the official story simply doesn't add up with the fact that some of the alleged people are still alive.
Also, did everyone forget about the pentagon? Now that one is really weird...
The telephone or power poles that got knocked down cause the plane was flying so low? that just sounds so wrong... but whatever, the main thing i'd be pissed about is that all video footage was confiscated.
I mean they could shut everyone up if they just released it.
Although since it's been so long i'm sure some nutball would say they were just stalling for time to edit it.
Anyways, the whole thing is dodgy, but i don't really care anymore, it's not my country, hopefully the total story will come out one day.
:ices_rofl
But your government thinks that US soldiers dying to "liberate" Iraq and Afghanistan are well worth, uh?
You would like it or not, but soldiers are for that
how exactly would anybody be able to do a controlled demolition of a building within 1 or 2 hours considering it normally takes weeks of calculations drilling holes and placing charges?
Just to play devil's advocate, here is what a controlled demolition of a tower looks like.
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/f ... rk-tower-implosion-p1.php
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/f ... rk-tower-implosion-p1.php
Do you really think that soldiers are just pawns in a chess table?
Only there to die for a bigger cause?
I don't think that to die will be a soldier work. Obviously is one of the risks, but anyway... what I wanted to point is that U.S. are leting his soldiers die for the liberation of a country that (probably) will not be liberated.. so killing them for nothing.... That, or maybe there are some powerful motivations to keep them there...
So would never the U.S. government kill 5.000 of our people?
FACT:
2 towers + 2 planes = 0.
There is no conspiracy, why would there be one?
I mean, a conspiracy isn't needed to invade Iraq or something, the USA just does that because they think they will create peace... (that's not working though, just get the hell out of there)
2 towers + 2 planes = 0.
There is no conspiracy, why would there be one?
I mean, a conspiracy isn't needed to invade Iraq or something, the USA just does that because they think they will create peace... (that's not working though, just get the hell out of there)
FTR, "pull it" can easily refer to a team or a crew of firefighters. Pull the team, or pull the rescue attempt, or pull the firetruck back to a safe distance. Use of the words "pull it" may be "fuel" for a conspiracy theory, for those that have a desire to place faith in such things, but not to the extent that it could remotely be called "evidence".
Yes. That's what they sign up for - to be used by the powers that be in a military capacity, either to police dangerous regions, fight invaders, or defend our country.
They don't sign up to have an easy life, to make their own decisions about what is right or wrong, or to be a bit cool. Well, some sign up to be cool, but don't last long.
What else are a countries military for if it isn't being used to fight wars, regimes etc?
I have the DEFINITE proof the "conspiracy theory(ies)" are all wrong.
The people that made these conspiracy theories. if they still breathe, the theory is wrong.
Or do you think a government that would destroy a world landmark, a prestige-giving landmark and kill 3000 citizens would bat a friggin' eyelash about fabricating an "accident" that would kill/make dissapear the makers of such videos/webpages?
Jeez. Grow a brain.
The people that made these conspiracy theories. if they still breathe, the theory is wrong.
Or do you think a government that would destroy a world landmark, a prestige-giving landmark and kill 3000 citizens would bat a friggin' eyelash about fabricating an "accident" that would kill/make dissapear the makers of such videos/webpages?
Jeez. Grow a brain.
Which is exactly what the person in question has said he meant: (source)
Of course, this is all part of the conspiracy though :hide:
Overall, I dont see anything "suspicious" with the main wtc collapses or the pentagon plane, so even if the WTC 7 collapse would seem odd any kind of conspiracy as the cause of it doesn't make much sense. Just because something like it has not happened before doesn't mean there is a conspiracy behind it. Unique, "mysterious" events still occur simply because there are too many variables in the real world to take everything possible into account when designing something or when trying to find out why it failed afterwards.
Well, that makes one of us.
It's all about the money. Al Qaeda, CIA, Shell. They're all in for the money.
Why Afganistan? Look around the neighbor countries, it's all mountains. Afgan plains will be used to ship oil from the Black Sea to the US for export. Exxon, Shell, Chevron and the lot didn't appoint that monkey Bush Jr. as the president to see him perform. They are all in for the oil and money.
Why Afganistan? Look around the neighbor countries, it's all mountains. Afgan plains will be used to ship oil from the Black Sea to the US for export. Exxon, Shell, Chevron and the lot didn't appoint that monkey Bush Jr. as the president to see him perform. They are all in for the oil and money.
tristancliffe answered for me
Yeah, it is sad, but it´s the reality. US army is one of the few armies in the world that is used for what it must be used, not like the crappy Spanish army, which is more an NGO than an army. I hope nobody invades our country my friend, because if it depends on our army...
And no, I don´t like wars, I hate wars in fact.
9-11 did a lot of things.. Not least showing how incredibly stupid so many people seem to be...
Indeed, indeed.
WTC 5 I believe was the building that held vast amounts of information related to finance and tax and who knows what else?
Destroying this building may also have destroyed a lot of incriminating evidence at the same time.
Edit: not Saying that this is the case -I am speculating, But I am qualified in engineering and can easily see how the two towers could have collapsed as they did.
for those that don't understand - may I point out that the main supporting steel in the centre of the buildings would have actually guided the debri down in a straight line - just like a cotton bobbin with a rod running through the centre hole.
Also yes as the floors pancaked on top of each other as they came down is perfectly understandable.
But to me this could also have assisted with an intentional demolition, so I'm personally still back at a sceptical square one.
I do agree some things on 9/11 are a lot suspicious. And i dislike the fact how some people try to make fun of these theories, calling them "conspiracy", and saying the government would never do anything to hurt their citizens, etc etc, instead of taking them seriously and try to debunk them. It's as if they rather want to believe that the government didnt do it, which i can understand since its much more comfortable.
9/11 Conspiracy Theories - How the Towers Fell
(1218 posts, started )
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