Quote from wheel4hummer :

What about a bigger turbocharger, intercooler, methanol/water injection, propane injection, nitrous, cams, pistons and other engine internals, intake manifold, increasing bore/stroke, bigger injectors?



They make midgets come to your house at night and piss in your gas tank.

Nope, the only tuning that gets done is maybe a higher flow air filter and a chiptune. I'm talking about young people, starting with a family and stuff, so no big changes to their cars. They just chiptune it because it'll drive smoother and will run more economic.

Ok, I think I know where some of you are coming from with the "anti-mod" attitude. It is always funny to watch heavily modified ricers at autocross events fail horribly because they modified their cars to "look cool" and not actually perform properly on a track.

Whilst I do trust the engineers who are designing the cars, I don't trust the manufacturers who say "If we put on this cheap crap part we can save x amount of dollars". Which is what happens to every vehicle out there (save some of the super cars out there - which is why they are so damn expensive).

Now we come to the point of modifying. I've done some light mods to my car and have noticed a HUGE difference. I have replaced the stock sway bars with larger ones supplied with better endlinks. I then decided to install a better exhaust system in order to go "stage 2". I replaced the DP and installed a turbo-back exhaust. I've installed the Cobb stage 2 ecu map running on 93 octane and currently produce around 300awhp with 19psi of boost. I'm working on replacing the springs and don't plan to stop there!

So in summation, there is nothing wrong with modifying your car as long as you know what you are doing and what the results are.

Quote from flu1d :

So in summation, there is nothing wrong with modifying your car as long as you know what you are doing and what the results are.

But I've not heard of anyone in this thread that 'tunes' their car and DOES know what they are doing.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm not denying that perhaps it gives a little more top end power (5hp), but it will come at the expense of low down torque, which competition cars don't need so much... If it was better all the way across the rev-range then surely they'd have fitted it as standard, especially if the improvement only cost £150 (cost price).

You think they was fussed about putting a top spec, high performance exhaust system as standard on a vehicle that was bottom of the line, smallest in the range and cheapest to buy?

A small minority of small hatches like 106's, Saxo's etc are driven by either chavs that put giant Ripspeed stickers in the windows, an even smaller percentage are driven by people who dedicate a lot of time to the car, and care about the affect of every single component. Most are driven by people who don't give a toss, and just want something small, cheap and easy to drive to get to work in. So why would these people want a harsh sounding, noisy exhaust to gain 5hp? Even if it is a work of art

I may be slightly biased though, my last 2 cars before my Focus were both 106's And I did play around with it, changing the carb for a different size and having it retuned, changed the exhaust bits, stiffers bushings etc.

...except the 106 in question is an S2 Rallye - not a bottom of the line standard car by any means.

An S2 rallye is still a basic car in the bottom end of the market. Most of the chassis components are still the same as any standard trim, the S1 was rather unique but the S2 is basically a stripped down GTI with an 8v and fettled suspension from what I remember. They were not exactly track-day only things either.

There are a lot more Peugeotsport parts you can purchase, not just an exhaust system. They clearly chose to try and profit more from the people who wanted such parts that didn't compromise, and sold the "basic" car so as to reach as broad an audience as possible.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

I'm talking about young people, starting with a family and stuff, so no big changes to their cars.

You said that you were talking about turbodiesels, and made no mention of their owners. And a methanol/water injection kit is definitely not a big change, nor is it expensive. I have no idea how well methanol/water injection actually works, but it is a modification that is out there on the market. You stated that "aren't modded in any other way except chiptuning." That simply is not true.

lol about the meth/water injection i dont know much about it in desiel aplications but a few people i know run it on their drag cars and it can help give a extra 100-400 HP on a 800/1200 HP engine so its very good depending on ur engine setup

and it is A BIG mod to set a engine up properly for this.

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

a few people i know run it on their drag cars and it can help give a extra 100-400 HP on a 800/1200 HP engine

There is NO WAY you can get 400HP from dumping water and a little bit of methanol into your engine.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But I've not heard of anyone in this thread that 'tunes' their car and DOES know what they are doing.

lol man ur opions are you own. not many people do fully know

i will say this most people dont have access to telemtry read outs and that so they do most of their mods based on feel and what they wish to achive.

ok let me say this
when i first got my car i didnt know anything about it it come standed with 200 FWHP and it was auto,after geting the track bug i decided to clean up the air system cause it didnt have a intercooler,
i did a bar&plate 650x400x90 cooler with cold air intake and a 3.5inc dump from the turbo to a 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust with new high flow cat.
then i knew id need to do the suspension i replaced all the shocks and springs with lower ones. after driving it for 1 week i noticed the rear end was alot stifer then the front so after alot of hard work i convinced King Spings to make me a custom progressive sprint with 450 to 700 LB rating. this made the car alot more even and gave me better turn in. after that i noticed way to much over steer on exit of corners so i losened the rear sway bar cause the locker was causing problems.A and i allso changed all my tyres to 245x45x17 anything lower profile will cause to much issues with the crappy suspension.
now my car isent that fast but its all trial and error for me atm i got 340hp at the wheels and its SO much fun on the track id prefer to be scared and have a hard time controling the car then having a car that drives like its on rails

PS. The Most over looked think in any car is brake pads i still need to replace mine but dont have the 1800$ for the new pads
my current pads arnt cheap but they only lasted 2 laps befor they were faded

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

id prefer to be scared and have a hard time controling the car then having a car that drives like its on rails

Please don't drive anywhere near me, I beg you.

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

when i first got my car i didnt know anything about it it come standed with 200 FWHP and it was auto

Wait... auto? Wow... I don't think you knew what you were doing. Why would you even bother tuning a car with an automatic transmission? Unless by "track" you mean dragstrip, automatic transmissions are horrible for driving around a track.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

There is NO WAY you can get 400HP from dumping water and a little bit of methanol into your engine.

loli never said 400 HP JUST FROM METHANOL your engine needs to be setup to run it ill give u a example

lets say u got a 6cyl engine running a big turbo capable of 45 psi and extream flow rates running 9.5 compression and it detonates cause of the fuel at 17 psi

now u got 2 options lower compression run more boost for more power or change ur fuel

if u go water/meth and run 12.1 compression and raise the boost to 40 psi you will make a SHITLOAD more power examples like that is what i was talking about

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Please don't drive anywhere near me, I beg you.


Wait... auto? Wow... I don't think you knew what you were doing. Why would you even bother tuning an FWD car with an automatic transmission? Unless by "track" you mean dragstrip, automatic transmissions are horrible for driving around a track.

FWHP sorry you miss interprited what i said i ment Fly wheel HP its a RWD and its manual now

and i dont drive the car on the road much

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

loli never said 400 HP JUST FROM METHANOL

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

lol about the meth/water injection i dont know much about it in desiel aplications but a few people i know run it on their drag cars and it can help give a extra 100-400 HP

Could have fooled me! Why don't you tell us the actual car that you own, anyway?

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

lets say u got a 6cyl engine running a big turbo capable of 45 psi and extream flow rates running 9.5 compression and it detonates cause of the fuel at 17 psi

I'm trying to follow what you are writing, but it's very difficult. How do you "run 9.5 compression?" Where is the compression adjustment button in my car?

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

if u go water/meth and run 12.1 compression and raise the boost to 40 psi you will make a SHITLOAD more power examples like that is what i was talking about

Yeah, just hit the buttons on your boost controller and wave the magical compression increasing wand over the engine, and WHAMO! More power! Um, but I thought you said earlier that the car that you are using as en example was having detonation at 17psi because there wasn't enough fuel. At 40psi, surely the engine will be running considerably more lean, and therefore cause more detonation?

lol their is no compression botten lmfao come on i know ur not that dence
and u should know that with water/meth u can run alot more boost and compression and sometimes fuel/ petrol will just detonate cause of the timing befor the spart even gose off. and i never said it was cause of not enough fuel

my car is a RB30ET VL its shit and has nothing to do with what im saying L

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

sometimes fuel/ petrol will just detonate cause of the timing befor the spart even gose off

And that's when you retard the timing...

and then u lose pwr :P petrol can only produce so much HP thats why draq teams and f1 cars and even indy cars dont run petrol they run exotic fuels like nirtomethain/methanol and such


btw for 1L of petrol vs 1L of methanol
petrol creates more power ie bigger explosion and that but it dosent allow u to run such high lvls of boost/comp/ timing and such and those 3 things create more power

Can't we see a picture of your car please?

Quote from flu1d :

So in summation, there is nothing wrong with modifying your car as long as you know what you are doing and what the results are.

But I've not heard of anyone in this thread that 'tunes' their car and DOES know what they are doing.

only pick i have of the car on the net atm

http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=31180524740yn7.jpg

and dam i was slow that day a 220 HP datto 1600 was lapping 3 sec faster then a ultma GTR On NOS

OMG. Just stop, everyone is using loads and loads of argument fallacies about "oh zhe engineers will tune a spring to give it more df" and "fat guy with beer belly will remove a part to make the car faster", you actually proved nothing. Chip tuning done by a guy with a laptop in his mom's garage can ruin your engine, it will run too lean, it will smoke etc etc. Chip tuning done by a professional is a feasible way of improving performance, ofcourse it wont cost u 500 euros (that most of the momma's boys will charge) it'll set you back let's say 1500+ euros if done by OCT (a company that chiptunes all the Subaru's for the austrian/german rallys). There is an argument to be made about efficiency too, if you up the engine power by 10 % and fuel consumption stays the same or even increases by a few %, relative to the new engine power it's still a better efficiency than the one you previously had.

My suggestion Victor, don't write it off just yet, especially for turbo-diesel engines (those get the biggest gains) - rather check out the company which is doing it and their reputation. There are reputable firms employing a large number of "zhe engineerz" who do wonders with engine control managment.

ok, I have an Volvo c70 t5, original 240bhb and 320Nm of torque,

with a chip it could have 310bhb and 420Nm of torque, so pretty detuned ayeh?

Quote from tristancliffe :

But I've not heard of anyone in this thread that 'tunes' their car and DOES know what they are doing.

Yeah I can see that

It's especially scary on lower end cars that probably can't handle the extra power and beating you will dish out on it. I don't think the drive train and chassis on some of these cars mentioned can handle it.

Scipy: your country seems to be very expensive on chip tunes. A company over here will chiptune your car and test it on a rolling road (with climatiser and humidity crap and everything, so the testing happens in the same way every time, it's the most expensive installation in Belgium), and their prices start from 500 euros. These days it's going towards 700 or 900 euros, but it's still one of the more expensive companies.

OCT is actually an austrian company, but they have a division in croatia. I believe in croatia it's around 1-1.5k euros, in austria tuning for powerful cars sets people back several thousand euros. But then again, they are the only ones giving you a 100 000 km warranty on the engine and everything related to it (a friend broke his dual mass flywheel because the car had more power and OCT just gave him the money for a new one, he didn't even have to present the old one as evidence).