Quote from Technique :

The fact that mouse users can achieve equal or better times without being able to trail brake, left foot brake, heal-toe, etc. makes the sim look a bit silly to be honest

And which do they choose, EVEN when they have an option?! As you see, they CHOOSE the mouse, so stop with those "i'm poor i can't buy a wheel" bull*hit, they choose the mouse because it's easier to be fast with, and easier generally... And yes, this does make this sim look rather silly, but who am i talking to when half of the forum visits the freakin Jamaican Saun Paul cruise servers...

Boris Lozac you're missing a point in all this. Most mouse users use the mouse because they have to, not because they choose. And i assure you the "i'm poor i can't buy a wheel" is no bull*hit, not everyone can afford a gaming accessory when they have more important things to spend the money on, like paying the bills.

Quote from jonny__27 :

Boris Lozac you're missing a point in all this. Most mouse users use the mouse because they have to, not because they choose. And i assure you the "i'm poor i can't buy a wheel" is no bull*hit, not everyone can afford a gaming accessory when they have more important things to spend the money on, like paying the bills.

Meh, "have to" yeah right... Wheel is the price of one game.. (yes, the games are actually sold you know, they don't grow on the internet)

LIVE for Speed
As Boris pointed out, there're decent wheels for the price of a single game and you'll enjoy the wheel for years, way longer than most games.

No problem with Mouseplayers but

Mouseplayer to Mouseplayer Server
Wheelplayer to Wheelplayer Server
and Clutch & H Sifters to Clutch & H-Shift Servers,

but we are only 1100 people in this moment Playing. Mostly under 1000!

I wish a Forced Option for the Controller, but its really a dangerous Wish.
It can ruin the Game thats true. If there are only Servers with less then 10 players.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Why should they do anything?

Well, CTRA mostly does things when they think things must go different than things now.

Quote from jonny__27 :

Boris Lozac you're missing a point in all this. Most mouse users use the mouse because they have to, not because they choose. And i assure you the "i'm poor i can't buy a wheel" is no bull*hit, not everyone can afford a gaming accessory when they have more important things to spend the money on, like paying the bills.

U.S is a bit different than Portugal I'm sure, but over here, if you have time to play games (time is money) and money to spend on an internet connection, then you can afford a cheap wheel. The used ebay wheel I posted earlier cost less than half a day's work at McDonalds... I could get a job at McD's, work one day, quit, and have enough cash to get a used wheel and an S2 license.... I guess I'm glad I live in the US!

At least do you know for how many months i don't buy any game because i can't? If you're swimming on money then good for you, but i don't.

Quote from Technique :

...I could get a job at McD's, work one day, quit, and have enough cash to get a used wheel and an S2 license....

interesting that you mention it, because i sent my cv to staples a few hours ago (they're opening a new store here), but the way i see it, it will be another fail for me looking for the first job is harder than i thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's the mouse option. And I don't see any advantage to using it over a wheel. From the dev's perspective, it would be in their best interests to leave it as is. More people that can play the game = more money.

So, its already proven that mouse is an advantage when racing or are we still discussing who is skilled with mouse or not ?

Quote from jonny__27 :

At least do you know for how many months i don't buy any game because i can't? If you're swimming on money then good for you, but i don't.



interesting that you mention it, because i sent my cv to staples a few hours ago (they're opening a new store here), but the way i see it, it will be another fail for me looking for first job is hard.

Man, you don't get it do you... I have nothing against you playing with the mouse, what bothers me is that you can be so good and fast with this "subtitute" of controller, yes, it should be a subtitute until you get the wheel, not on par with the wheels... you see my point? It does bothers me when i get my ass wooped in 5 races in a row from a mouse driver who never makes a mistake. He's sitting in a position like he reads a book, while i'm all wet after the first race... I don't mind beeig wet and having to work for the win, it bothers me that he barely puts an effort, he sweats the same as i sweat while browsing a forum...
So conclusion, it's great having the ability to drive with the mouse, but it CAN'T be better and easier then a wheel for FWD and less powered cars...

don't get me wrong as well, i would prefer to play with a wheel than with a mouse. unfortunately my financial situation doesn't let me
tbh i don't care if i'm faster or slower with mouse, but i know a wheel is far more exciting.

I've been using the mouse as controller in LFS for years now. At first, I just didn't have the money to buy a wheel, but now, I've tried my bro's wheel a few times and I just don't want to go through all the learning when changing controller. I'm doing resonably well with the mouse, so I don't intend on changing any time soon

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Man, you don't get it do you... I have nothing against you playing with the mouse, what bothers me is that you can be so good and fast with this "subtitute" of controller, yes, it should be a subtitute until you get the wheel, not on par with the wheels... you see my point? It does bothers me when i get my ass wooped in 5 races in a row from a mouse driver who never makes a mistake. He's sitting in a position like he reads a book, while i'm all wet after the first race... I don't mind beeig wet and having to work for the win, it bothers me that he barely puts an effort, he sweats the same as i sweat while browsing a forum...
So conclusion, it's great having the ability to drive with the mouse, but it CAN'T be better and easier then a wheel for FWD and less powered cars...

Don't get me wrong but, you also know dozens of wheel racers that never make mistakes during races.

So, what is their secret ?
If they can, shouldn't you also be able to perform as them ?

Quote from jonny__27 :

don't get me wrong as well, i would prefer to play with a wheel than with a mouse. unfortunately my financial situation doesn't let me

Well, some wouldn't, they would rather be faster than drive with the wheel and "struglle" with it, and those are the one that iritates me, not people like you...

Quote from fujiwara :

Don't get me wrong but, you also know dozens of wheel racers that never make mistakes during races.

So, what is their secret ?
If they can, shouldn't you also be able to perform as them ?

Am i talking Japanese here, what's going on?
It's like, someone with a remote controled F1 car joins the F1 race and leaves them all in the dust, would you justify it like "so what, he also struglled with his remote control, why shouldn't he win"
Really, am i not writing understandably?

@No one in particular:

Seriously, wtf? Yes, counter steering with the mouse is too quick and button clutching slightly too fast for providing a 100% fail-safe shifting method, but come on, this doesn't gain you whole seconds. Normally I'm all for a bit more purity and hardcoreness but this whining is ridiculous. Separating wheel, wheel & clutch/h-gate and mouse users? Go play iRacing please... no wait, sorry that's probably not elitist enough for you.

If anything complain about the cruisers polluting the server lists with their non-racing and taking away some capable racers with their ingame chatrooms and buying burgers from Burger King (), but don't flame on the mouse and keyboard users who help keeping the racer numbers up, and even less on those few that are actually good (due to endless grinding) and actually provide a challenge instead of crashing into the nearest wall five seconds after the race start.

Are the unrealistic advantages mouse and button clutch provide a problem? Yes, a tiny one. Not that huge thing you make it out to be. Sure you're slower with the clutch & H-gate shifter... if you've just got it and still suck balls with it. Please don't blame your lack of skill on the controllers. Also, winning isn't everything. They might beat your sorry ass but you had at least twice the enjoyment due to the immersion FF and a shifter provide. At the end of the day you got a little workout, whereas their prize is carpal tunnel syndrome.

Keep it real guys. Your separation in purity levels might work in an utopian world where all of the 50000+ S2 licensees are active racers, but not with the daily 1000 racers total - demo, S2, cruisers and drifters combined.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Am i talking Japanese here, what's going on?
It's like, someone with a remote controled F1 car joins the F1 race and leaves them all in the dust, would you justify it like "so what, he also struglled with his remote control, why shouldn't he win"
Really, am i not writing understandably?

You should ask youself why other wheel racers out perform you, and not blame other guys controller.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

So conclusion, it's great having the ability to drive with the mouse, but it CAN'T be better and easier then a wheel for FWD and less powered cars...

but it is not!

what you compare? your MOMO?

btw. maybe you dont know - guys in top WRs on bl1 XFG with mouse made tens thousands laps there.
let me guess, how much laps need eg. duck with wheel to beat them?

Quote from fujiwara :

You should ask youself why other wheel racers out perform you, and not blame other guys controller.

I don't blame anyone, you don't read and don't get my posts...
I agree with Android, we are kinda small comunity and the number of racers is not that great, agree, it would be bad to have that number even more reduced by separating the servers... I'm just saying that it's redicolous for a mouse to be a perfect controller, just imagine yourself driving with the mouse in the real car You are forgeting that sim racing (car and plane) can be really simulated from your chair, minus the G-forces, but still, it's a rare thing that you can actually simulate it, and people are taking that for granted. The same thing that you could never simulate a bike properly, or simulate playing a footbal, you simply can't, while car driving you really can.. and it hurts me that people are playing it like any other game and beeing uber fast at the same time.. They are bying the expensive moueses you know, Logitech G5, G7 etc, have you missed my post where a guy got a MOMO wheel as a present and keeps it under the bed and still drives with a mouse, because he can't get those 0.5 of a second with a wheel... for those kind of people i would like to have the mouse a little more harder to drive..

OMG... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaEacclrzAM

the wiimote advantage

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

Well, CTRA mostly does things when they think things must go different than things now.

Well, yes but why do things have to go different when suddenly 2 or 3 people think that mouse users have an unfair advantage and they should be banned from LFS.

I have nothing against mouse/keyboard use, or button clutch for that matter (I used it myself when I was using mouse, to do manual shifts). It's the button clutch script thingy that bugs me, giving you perfect and insanely fast shifts. And yes, I'm sure it can give a whole second advantage on the longer tracks. I've tested it myself, and on a short track I was 0.4 seconds faster with it than without.

Compared to the autoclutch, maybe. Even then it's not a huge deal, considering how most racers actually struggle with finishing the race, not being uncompetitive because of a 0.4 second disadvantage.

Well, in hotlapping it is a big deal.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Compared to the autoclutch, maybe. Even then it's not a huge deal, considering how most racers actually struggle with finishing the race, not being uncompetitive because of a 0.4 second disadvantage.

Not trying to be rude, but, where do you race if 0.4 seconds is not a big deal? That's the difference beatwen 1st and 8th in F1 sometimes