Quote from RudiTurbo :

I'm like tired of those people wanting new tracks and cars every day. May I ask You how many combos do we have in LFS? I request a constraint to be set on all the users in the forum, that if YOU DO NOT HAVE HOTLAPS ON ALL THE FRIKKIN 940 COMBOS, THEN YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MENTION ANY NEW CONTENT!

What does the number of combos have to do with anything? You cover the same corners on the track using the different circuit configurations. Your overall route might be different but the corners are still the same. The scenery is still the same. The immersion offered by that particular environment is still the same. We're better covered on the car front in terms of the variety available, and they all handle quite differently. But I have no desire to try all 900+ combos. FE3 in an LX4 is very much like FE3 in an LX6. KY2 in a RB4 is a very similar experience to KY2 in a XRT, bar the obvious handling differences. We might have hundreds of combos, but distil them down to groups of interesting/appropriate tracks and car classes, and the number drops dramatically.

Quote from RudiTurbo :

Jeez, You only want new content cause it's fun to get new stuff, what then? You drive the track in Your favourite car for a week and come back with a new request, wtf?

No - personally, I want more content to provide more choice of racing venue, more variety, and yes, of course there is an appeal to having something new, both to learn and to play around in.

If everyone never wanted any new tracks, we'd all still be playing on LFS's recreations of the tracks from Pole Position on the Atari 2600. There's nothing wrong with wanting new tracks. It's not a sin. It's not symptomatic of having some kind of attention deficit disorder.

Mind you, none of this makes any difference if everyone continues to drive, and continues to be provided for/encouraged to drive, the same bloody AS3/GTR. I'd love to see what would happen if that combo could be blocked at the master server for a weekend.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

True...
No matter how many times i said that in past, it doesn't matter, when i said that FE curbs are redicolous i get like one reply that agrees with me, others said something like "you're slow, learn to drive them", yea.. it's so much fun to learn hoping on the huge sidewalk-like curbs with sustaining no damage to the suspension, how's that got anything to do with racing? i might aswell play some shooter, it would feel the same...
The only two tracks/combos that feel realistic and ejoying to drive are Westhill (rev is better) and Ky National rev, and you can took a wild guess why is that... well cause they feel like real circuits, you know, real word, outside of the house... You feel like actually really racing there, not playing the game, it just feels right, every corner just flows nicely.. this is mostly noticable on Ky Nat rev... and c'mon, let's face it, how long will the people be in denial that real tracks and cars are not important? Really? There are real Nascar racers in iRacing, they're like practising their sessions in it, and they're bloody good at it.. you sure won't see them on AS3/GTR..
Real tracks DO mean alot, so do real cars, you watch a video on YouTube, see an F1 race, or Formula FBM race etc, you can relate to that, you know what are the speeds through specific corner.
I would change these 2580 combos for two real tracks any day, and be happy for a long time.. It was maybe irelevant when there was no proper sim before, and where there were no good real tracks in other sims as i don't count a Monza made by two 14 year olds... so seeing how good it can look in iRacing and how real it looks, i really can't be in denial anymore that they are not important..

Well said, a sim should simulate real life so real cars and tracks are a must.

My local track is Cadwell Park and i think i have done over 1000 laps round it at trackdays in loads of different cars from a Saxo to my own WRC Focus, a home made 7 to a Caterham R500.

I have Cadwell Park on rFactor, GTR2, GTL/GPL and Race07 and even though none of those games are as good as LFS you certainly get faster round the real track by using the Sim track to practice,

What i do is try all the cars and select one that is as close to the one i will be using by feel, not by looks. Even though the car i am using in the sim may be a different shape that make little difference as i can only see the dash when i am driving.

And this is one of the major problems with the development of LFS.

I feel that the devs have concentrated too much on the replay, AI and looks rather on the feeling inside the car.

Replays and AI Etc is great for a game you watch but does little to immerse you into the game.

If Patch Z had an extra car and a new track rather than all the other stuff that is nothing to do with racing we would have had over the moon.

"Real" cars in a game are a fallacy. You're driving a digital representation of a car, so even if it has a Ferrari badge on it, it's not a Ferrari. It could be a box on wheels and it wouldn't matter as long as it drives realistically.

"Real" tracks in a game are a novelty. Sure, the radii, camber, and elevation might be spot on, but nothing beats being there, with real conditions. Plus, why limit yourself to what's already out there? Use your imagination.

And a sim with real cars/tracks is not necessarily more realistic than one without. The aim is to reproduce the vehicle dynamics, not the exact circumstances.

Quote from Forbin :

"Real" cars in a game are a fallacy. You're driving a digital representation of a car, so even if it has a Ferrari badge on it, it's not a Ferrari. It could be a box on wheels and it wouldn't matter as long as it drives realistically.

"Real" tracks in a game are a novelty. Sure, the radii, camber, and elevation might be spot on, but nothing beats being there, with real conditions. Plus, why limit yourself to what's already out there? Use your imagination.

Good post, sums up the way I feel about it too. If I want a particular real car in a game it's because that car has a technical specification which I may find interesting or entertaining, not because of its name or shape or so that I can pretend to be driving the real thing. Would BF1 be any more/less fun if it were just a generic F1 car? Of course not. Would LX4 be any better really if it were a replica of a lesser known "7" manufacturer's car? No. It's that simple imo.

Similarly if I want a particular circuit, it's because of (generally) one or two corners or sections, or because of the general environment or nature of the circuit (narrow, undulating, twisty, tree lined, for example), and that's it, not so I can pretend to be there. All the things I would want the real track for can be replicated in a "fictional" version, and there's no reason why it would be less entertaining. A good track is a good track, build Kyoto Ring in real life and all it gains is notoriety.

I accept "real" stuff has practice value, which will benefit a fraction of people, but apart from that its only true advantage is in attracting customers, which would help LFS, but obviously the devs don't really think so.

Why are people racing the same combos every night? Because they are human. They want to win, not tomorrow, but right now. They don't want to spend time finding unpopulated servers with fresh new combos and look for a suitable setup. They want to sit down, start up the game, race with lots of other players and finally win.

If you want some organized racing with a large variety of combos, join a league - cliché, I know, but that's reality. It's getting impossible to just fire up LFS and get a race as furious and various as a few years before. Here I'd like to mention Counter Strike:Source, because a same kind of behavior can be seen there, too. A lot of servers are running de_dust2 only, and the most of them are quite densely populated. I myself am finding it hard to play some other maps (ie. not office/italy/aztec/dust) at least 5on5. Players just want the same old sh!t which they know so they are able to pwn with the obvious desert Eagle + awp/ak/m4a1 combination, which again leads me to the fact that most of the players want to jump straight to the part where they are winning, but not learning anything more.

Back to LFS and the problem of some unrealistic racing on kerbs 'n stuff - why use something different, when there's a well tested and working receipt for quick winning? Players will exploit the flaws of any game if they can get an advantage doing so. RL drivers won't go over some of the kerbs in LFS so drasticaly because of the damage that may cause to their racing car, but in LFS, nothing stops you from using anything on the track to your advantage. In LFS it's simply way too easy to drive constantly on the limit (and I'm saying this not ever setting a WR and not even being the fastest driver out there), pushing your car extremely because there isn't that "fear factor" as in RL.

Boris, you said that at least the community of iRacing is 18+. I don't think the age of the player is important, it plays a role, but surely anybody could find an example that would contradict with the statement "the older he is the smarter he gets". And I don't understand why are some of you "scared" of the fact that others are playing/trying out other sim's out there. By buying LFS you didn't bind yourself not to play anything else o_O . But on the other hand by buying LFS you agreed to the way ScaViEr are developing it. It has been said a thousand times already that the devs aren't obliged to listen and respond to the alltime whining about the flaws and deficiency of the games present state. It's still in Aplha stage, so I don't really see a problem with the game right now. It's not final, most companies wouldn't let anybody else other than betatesters to play a game's alpha version >:| Waiting can be hard, but you don't have to wait right "here" and comlpain every day about how long does it take to get the frickin patch out. The ending is a bit offtopic, but I hope some will learn from it, or at least think about it.

I want real life tracks so I can connect to reality, as simple as that. Existing LFS cars already offer me this connection, since they come in a variety of types which can be setup to simulate the behaviour of real life cars.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And a sim with real cars/tracks is not necessarily more realistic than one without. The aim is to reproduce the vehicle dynamics, not the exact circumstances.

I agree with you in the case of cars, if the devs put an LM Proto body on the F08 we would all drive it more than we ever do the F08 now, add a bit of extra power here, move the weight about and change the bodies would give more cars very quickly, but tracks i think we all would like real tracks so we can see what they are like.

I will never drive Monza but in a sim i can and many leagues would set up with date and track like the real series if we had the content.

The fact is we aint gonna get it but we can all dream.

Quote from birder :

i think we all would like real tracks so we can see what they are like.

I will never drive Monza but in a sim i can and many leagues would set up with date and track like the real series if we had the content.

I would love to see more "non-flatout" tracks. Wheter they will be real or not doesn't matter. And getting licence on real tracks is often really expensive although I'm pretty sure that there will be few interesting tracks "for free"

Quote from Zyrez :

well how many combos you thin Gran turismo 4 have?

700 cars on 50 tracks. I see no problem in not trying all cars on all tracks. You find your favourite and race on that.

700 cars and 50 tracks in Gran Turismo equals at around 120 combos.

Because all the frikkin 700 cars drive like one. Just a little more power on some of them and that's it loller.

The only way to get new people is to make new tracks and cars? lol?
Hey, I'm looking round the internetz, whoo, something called LFS mmm let's see. Uh crap, they havent made a new track for 3 years, NOT GONNA TRY THIS BS!

It's the only way to get old ppl back for 2 days.

LFS is not a car factory, LFS is a racing sim and it stays that. 1 track is enough for simulating stuff

And for people saying there is no good track in LFS. Blackwood is probably a track which could be made in real life, cause it is so good. Though, we would need to get some old elements back, the bump on the long straight and the 1st chicane back to a little more oldschool.

But this just prooves that BL is a good track: People didnt drive BL for a while and after they got tired of the S1 tracks, people crawled back to Blackwood it was THE MOST DRIVEN track in S1 despite being there as the only one for the whole demo . And wtf just checked the track charts, it still leads in S2. eh

So if I won a couple billions , I'd build a real life BL for sure

Quote from RudiTurbo :

But this just prooves that BL is a good track: People didnt drive BL for a while and after they got tired of the S1 tracks, people crawled back to Blackwood it was THE MOST DRIVEN track in S1 despite being there as the only one for the whole demo . And wtf just checked the track charts, it still leads in S2. eh

As I agree that BL is a good track (especially now with the new 1st sector and less width), I think that this just proves MataGuyla's point about humans rather than Blackwood's superiority as a racing track.

Aston and Kyoto are also very good tracks, Westhill has the potential to be really good too! However, this is not related to the immersion boost any rl track would give to lfs. But rl tracks may require twice (or more) the time and effort to be made.

Quote :

Not sure if it would be seen as new content, but the only thing i really miss when i play LFS after Iracing is level of detail in the track surfaces / corners

Every bump , dip and camber change is clearly felt and communicated to the driver.

If LFS could "rough up" the tracks...

I would classify that as new content, since the tracks would have changed in some way. I'd welcome that, but I guess I'm also a little skeptical of the idea of simply 'roughing up' a surface perhaps just for the sake of it. I guess this cuts to the division between 'artificial' tracks and 'real' tracks imo- and here a question comes to mind. Blackwood as an imaginary track is already a perfect representation of Blackwood. Will arbitrarily roughing up that surface automatically turn it into a higher quality/more realistic track?

Quote from RudiTurbo :

All the new content threads - I mean wtf ...

As I was browsing thru the first few pages of the edited pics topic I spotted KiDCoDEa-s name and I thought to myself, we need him back so he can deal with them i mean , like, srsly -.-

Quote from MataGyula :

As I was browsing thru the first few pages of the edited pics topic I spotted KiDCoDEa-s name and I thought to myself, we need him back so he can deal with them i mean , like, srsly -.-

Yeah, Kid is a seriously smart man actually, he is just very straightforward when something rough needs to be said
I dont mind that though