OMG! What the hell happened there? Only 3 people on the first page has autoclutch!

Some people use manual pedal clutch, but I don't really believe that!

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Some people use manual pedal clutch, but I don't really believe that!

There is a separate column CL for those who use pedal, so those are definetly button users...

Why even offer button as an option when it's obviously abused..?

Well, I will see myself as the new world record holder then haha

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Why even offer button as an option when it's obviously abused..?

I'm not against deleting clutch button (I'm sure there are legitimated uses for it), but as I said in an old thread you panned...

Button clutch should have a lower limit implemented in it so it's not possible to shift like the wind anymore

sigh it's not the BC that is the problem

Is the solution to not allow these controller changes in the game except in the garage, and not out on track?

Quote from SamH :

Is the solution to not allow these controller changes in the game except in the garage, and not out on track?

Scawen hasn't made a comment on the issue so am not sure what the situation is from his perspective. From mine it is that the AC is not operating the same as BC or CL and therefore has a bug which causes the AC to have a disadvantage when compared to all other methods. This may have been done on purpose for balancing the clutch heat issues, not sure. If the AC was made to operate more like CL and BC which appears more realistic then there will be significantly less advantage to someone using a macro or BC (nearing zero advantage). Having said that it may have already been fixed in the last release - I have not had time to check to see.

Quote from Glenn67 :

Scawen hasn't made a comment on the issue so am not sure what the situation is from his perspective. From mine it is that the AC is not operating the same as BC or CL and therefore has a bug which causes the AC to have a disadvantage when compared to all other methods. This may have been done on purpose for balancing the clutch heat issues, not sure. If the AC was made to operate more like CL and BC which appears more realistic then there will be significantly less advantage to someone using a macro or BC (nearing zero advantage). Having said that it may have already been fixed in the last release - I have not had time to check to see.

Exactly right

I think this problem came about when the maximum button control rate was increased from 6 to 10. I think it was Patch Y.

There are many easy solutions:

- Limit the maximum button control rate
- Make a seperate button control rate option for clutch, brake and throttle, then limit the clutch rate.
- increase the speed of the automatic clutch to 10

Quote from word. :

I think this problem came about when the maximum button control rate was increased from 6 to 10. I think it was Patch Y.

There are many easy solutions:

- Limit the maximum button control rate
- Make a seperate button control rate option for clutch, brake and throttle, then limit the clutch rate.
- increase the speed of the automatic clutch to 10

You missed one

- fix the AC

Quote from word. :

- increase the speed of the automatic clutch to 10

<sarcasm>Perfect! and then let's remove the analog clutch altogether.

Nobody uses it anyway, because it's just so much faster than the AutoClutch that everybody would feel like cheating to use it in race</sarcasm>

I am in a gaming clan and also part of a huge gaming community, and using macros IS regarded as cheating......you guys are not dumb, you all know what a macro is.....script used to activate numerous keystrokes with the press of one button. In our clan, and in the gaming community that we are part of, the golden rule is that if the keystrokes of the macro in question cannot be done naturally without the macro....then it is a CHEAT.
Also i would like to point out that the very good mouse and keyboard drivers DO have an unfair advantage over us wheel and pedal drivers.....why...??? Keyboard and mouse clicks are not progressive, using wheel and pedals are progressive. So taking a bend it is quicker for a keyboard and mouse driver to get full throttle out of the bend than it takes a wheel and pedal driver....press button= quicker to get to full throttle, press pedal= more progressive= slower to get to full throttle.. Pressing button to steer= quicker steering, using wheel= slower steering.
Yes us wheel and pedal drivers have more control over our steering, breaking and throttle, but the mouse and keyboard drivers if they are half decent get quicker reactions because their controls are simply ON/OFF.
Maybe i'm wrong in this assumption, never used keyboard and mouse in LFS or any other driving game......but take a driver with wheel and pedals v's keyboard and mouse driver.....ask the wheel driver to turn the steering from lock to lock 20 times, ask the keyboard and mouse driver to do the same.....question is who would be quickest....no doubt in my mind the keyboard and mouse driver would be faster. Same with using gas or break, ask the driver with pedals to press gas or break pedal 20 times, and ask keyboard and mouse driver to do the same....keyboard and mouse would do the same task faster.
Maybe i'm talking shite....lol but maybe a fair way is having world records for keyboard and mouse drivers, and another one for wheel and pedal drivers......The way i see it is there are some shit hot keyboard and mouse drivers who have this advantage of having instant ON/OFF controls....whereas the wheel and pedal brigade use controls with more progression to get this ON/OFF state.....but we have more control over our driving.
As i said you can all correct me if i'm talking shite...... :-)


Nighthawk.

You're right in most things apart from a good keyboard/mouse/gamepad driver having an advantage over wheel users. I think the balance is pretty good, wheel users can be smoother and it's easier to keep the car stable, while the keyboard/mouse/gamepad have more rapid controls which might help them in short races. But if you take a look at the top leagues, especially endurance ones in powerful cars, they are dominated by wheel users.

Quote from {CA}Nighthawk :

Also i would like to point out that the very good mouse and keyboard drivers DO have an unfair advantage over us wheel and pedal drivers.

Your reasons for the advantage in your opinion are exactly the reasons why there is a disadvantage for kb and mouse drivers (as it should be).

Yes, they can go from lock to lock faster and can put the throttle down faster but in racing you need a lot more control than just steering fully to the left/right and only accelerating flatout and braking fully. You can't do that with kb/mouse and it's quite a big disadvantage.

I've been a mouser for years (not by choice), now a G25 user.
Some pbs I did with the mouse are still out of reach for me, mostly low powered cars though.
However, longer races (above 30 minutes) with a mouse imply the following problems:

• Mouse kills your wrist
  
• Mouse burns the tyres unless you try to use the mouse as a wheel - slow, smooth steering and a button control rate low enough to get rid of the on/off problem (or click release at a inhuman rate), therefore discarding the "advantages" of the mouse
  
• Mouse will allow very fast countersteering - but you will need it much more often as it is much harder to feel the slide in its early phase.
  
• Most importantly, mouse driving is no fun at all compared to G25!
  

I see no advantage in using a mouse, but am glad that this sim allows it as this give an opportunity to try it / easy access.
I never used the mouse again after getting a wheel, despite being way slower for many weeks.

Since this thread has been resurrected again, I'd thought I'd point out that if auto-clutch is turned off, sequential shifter (player option not car option) is selected, and clutch is a button, then a player can press and hold the upshift or downshift button while driving, and then only have to press the clutch button to do the actual shift. After the shift takes place, the shift button has to be released and repressed and held down again, to enable the next shift via clutch button.

For a quick shift, the player just needs to press and hold the shift button a bit before pressing the clutch button to do the actual shift. No macros needed, it's a single button shift.

Another point I made earlier is that at least some LFS cars can be flat shifted (no throttle lift) without clutch overheating if the player waits until the engine reaches the rev limiter before shifting.

Yea, most people use that when driving the MRT/FBMW, but instead of pressing the clutch they pull the lever to shift, hold it in then lift off a tiny bit to change gear, stops you missing gears.

That's not quite the same thing. One of the complaints was using a macro that would depress clutch, shift gear, release clutch. In LFS with auto-clutch off, this isn't needed. Currently in LFS with auto-clutch off the player button sequence is hold down shift button, tap clutch button to do actual shift. The shift time is how long it takes to press and release the clutch button by tapping on it. I don't think that many players here are aware of the fact that shifts can be done this way (holding shift button down, then tapping clutch button to do the actual shift).

Where the macros can help is emulating auto-blip and auto-cut in races to prevent clutch overheating. I don't think clutch overheating is an issue for hot lapping.

Another nicely done lap at so1r

Good job LFS.

Jesus it's only a wr let it be, guessing it took him awhile to get tbh.

So I am him who has pinched the So1r Wr from "washcloth" NickC, according to his opinion.
I only want to say one, it was described absolutely here already several times however as long as the option is available to operate my clutch about a button, I will do this, thus true God me helps.

What I can do for the fact that he, does not do or can. Whether this is fair now or unfair, remains to itself leave.
But I want to get rid of one namely he has not done it here in the forum, however, in the chat box from lfsw. :arge:
Hence, I will give myself thus said as a Cheater put, none rests, until I own all his Wr's with the XFG.

And all i do with my Button Clutch
Nothing is faster like my Fingers, do u know that i also shift up and down with my fingers!?!
These are swapsides if one exactly takes it, are this also buttons. Want you also to forbid them? or is it also unfair swapsides to use? :uglyhamme

Oh before one now my English criticized, I used a translator, because, otherwise, you could not understand me only surely. Then, in addition, only expressions and very bad words would stand here. And I do not want to do this immediately already with my 1-st contribution.
:noob:
AH before i forget the best thing ever .... i got pwned by an autoclutch user .... watch So2-XFG(1.03.29)... so pls do it like Karolis(1.03.17) or @Worm(1.03.13) or use button-clutch or try a Shifter+Clutch(SR Negao) when not, do not cry. I hate Peepz which howl around if what does not fit you. :arge:

P.S. I have practiced so long, with a Teamm8, the wr time is the same time like my online time. So u cant say that i do it in 2-3 laps with my button clutch .... so what ? u can beat it also with ur autoclutch. but its look like ur a *****, its the name from my girlfriends cat!!!

Quote from Live for Weed :

So I am him who has pinched the So1r Wr from "washcloth" NickC, according to his opinion.
I only want to say one, it was described absolutely here already several times however as long as the option is available to operate my clutch about a button, I will do this, thus true God me helps.

What I can do for the fact that he, does not do or can. Whether this is fair now or unfair, remains to itself leave.
But I want to get rid of one namely he has not done it here in the forum, however, in the chat box from lfsw. :arge:
Hence, I will give myself thus said as a Cheater put, none rests, until I own all his Wr's with the XFG.

And all i do with my Button Clutch
Nothing is faster like my Fingers, do u know that i also shift up and down with my fingers!?!
These are swapsides if one exactly takes it, are this also buttons. Want you also to forbid them? or is it also unfair swapsides to use? :uglyhamme

Oh before one now my English criticized, I used a translator, because, otherwise, you could not understand me only surely. Then, in addition, only expressions and very bad words would stand here. And I do not want to do this immediately already with my 1-st contribution.
:noob:
AH before i forget the best thing ever .... i got pwned by an autoclutch user .... watch So2-XFG(1.03.29)... so pls do it like Karolis(1.03.17) or @Worm(1.03.13) or use button-clutch or try a Shifter+Clutch(SR Negao) when not, do not cry. I hate Peepz which howl around if what does not fit you. :arge:

P.S. I have practiced so long, with a Teamm8, the wr time is the same time like my online time. So u cant say that i do it in 2-3 laps with my button clutch .... so what ? u can beat it also with ur autoclutch. but its look like ur a *****, its the name from my girlfriends cat!!!

the only reason they beat you with autoclutch, is because they are way better drivers than u? Clearly bc is faster (1.5-3 tenths on most tracks) so dont try to tell us that it isnt quicker, because it is.

I want biggie back...
(does anyone really give a s*** about hotlaps?)