Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I think, maybe, what he meant was that IF you are in a car crash you have a higher percentage chance of surviving it than you would IF you were in a plane crash.

Yep exactly thank you

Accidents happen because of 2 things:
-No maintainance (¡?)
-Take risks during the flight

I think this happened because of #1... Sadly the air business has become that, not maintaining the airplanes because they loose a lot of money if they take em away from flight for 1 week, example.

Quote from Biohazard :

what is so special about this particular plane crash?

Come on, nobody said it was special, but human lives have been lost, show some respect please.

Quote from JO53PHS :

I haven't read the whole thing, but what caused it to shoot off the end of the runway?

The left engine catched fire and exploded between Vr and V2, which is the most critical phase of a T/O as far as I know, the plane was some feet above ground and fell to the RW like a stone.

Very sad thing. DEP for the death ones and courage to it's familes.

Quote from chanoman315 :

Accidents happen because of 2 things:
-No maintainance (¡?)
-Take risks during the flight

I think this happened because of #1... Sadly the air business has become that, not maintaining the airplanes because they loose a lot of money if they take em away from flight for 1 week, example.

The plane maintenance was up to date AFAIK, but I've read the M80 family planes have been questioned several times lately.

Quote from Eldanor :

Come on, nobody said it was special, but human lives have been lost, show some respect please.



The left engine catched fire and exploded between Vr and V2, which is the most critical phase of a T/O as far as I know, the plane was some feet above ground and fell to the RW like a stone.

Very sad thing. DEP for the death ones and courage to it's familes.

Indeed, V2 is the most important face on TO, is when you rotate (lift the plane) so you can fly normally....
and of the maintainance being up to date, i seriously doubt it... well, the plane is 28 yo so

EDIT: see the pic attached, it shows how far-close to the airport the crash was... huge impact btw

just came back from my hols from Lithuania, my 12th time in a plane. Thankfully all times nothing happened.

R.I.P to all the people who died

Quote from chanoman315 :

Indeed, V2 is the most important face on TO, is when you rotate (lift the plane) so you can fly normally....
and of the maintainance being up to date, i seriously doubt it... well, the plane is 28 yo so

Well the plane was 15 years old, not 28, so the age is not a relevant issue here. I'm sure there are many planes currently flying that are just as old, if not older. The real issue would be if the correct maintenance was carried out before talk off, or whether it was just one of those things that only in hindsight it could have been avoided.

Link to quote

Quote :

Allard said the plane last passed an inspection in January of this year and no problems with it had been reported since then. The plane is 15 years old and has been owned by Spanair for the past nine, he said.

RIP to those involved. Horrible way to go.

The most worrying thing in my mind is that the plane crashed on its second takeoff attempt. An earlier takeoff attempt was aborted due to technical issues. Of course the two things might not be at all related but I imagine a lot of questions are going to be asked regarding the aborted takeoff.

I watched a few bits about this on the news earlier and it was said that it is a legal requirement that a plane such as this is able to sustain flight with a single engine failure. Engine failure at takeoff is probably one of the worst times for it to happen but I would think that something other than engine fire/failure must be the cause here, or, to be more exact, subsequent damage caused by the engine failure (there were reports of an explosion prior to the crash itself) brought the plane down rather than engine failure itself. I'm no expert and this is pure conjecture.

Anyway, i don't particularly wish to get into a discussion about such a sad event. Just a few things I felt like saying.

Once again, rest in peace.

153 victims confirmed so far

The point about the relative safety of cars and planes being made above I think is that for a given number of crashes, the air crashes are more likely to be fatal. However the chances of getting in an accident in the first place are much less in an aircraft.

In the US (as an example) in 2007 there were around 42000 road fatalities compared with just over 1000 air fatalities.

You are many times more likely to be killed in the taxi on the way to the airport, or even run over in the car park than in an air crash, but people don't stress about that when they go on holiday

Hockquan, yes every airplane with 2 engines can maintain flight, but an explosion on a MD is fatal, because it's not in the wing, it's on the body of the plane...

And yes, planes are a lot safer than cars

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

90 odd MD80's have crashed since production begun in 1980 and 1320 + have been killed since the production .
They say they have a "good" safety record

Given that death toll presumably only about 9 of them have actually crashed properly (based on the assumption that they carry 150 passengers and you don't walk away from a plane crash), given that 1200 have been built it's not that bad really, then you've got to look at how many crashes and incidents were anything to do with the design of the plane.

RIP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What genius ever decided to store fuel in wings in the first place, as far as structural vulnerability goes it's equal to having a cars fuel stored in the front/rear bumpers? Geniuses

Quote from chanoman315 :

Hockquan, yes every airplane with 2 engines can maintain flight, but an explosion on a MD is fatal, because it's not in the wing, it's on the body of the plane...

Engine explosion is not always fatal in an MD 80:

http://www.iac52.org/safetywise/june2001.html

My main point was that engine fire/failure on takeoff does not necessarily result in a crash and concluded that the explosion that was heard probably resulted in some other damage that led to the crash rather than the engine fire itself.

Quote from chanoman315 :

Indeed, V2 is the most important face on TO, is when you rotate (lift the plane) so you can fly normally....
and of the maintainance being up to date, i seriously doubt it... well, the plane is 28 yo so

EDIT: see the pic attached, it shows how far-close to the airport the crash was... huge impact btw

Is the airport opened already ?
How many people confirmed dead ?

Quote from CSU1 :

What genius ever decided to store fuel in wings in the first place, as far as structural vulnerability goes it's equal to having a cars fuel stored in the front/rear bumpers? Geniuses

so were you suggest, i think that the design of a plane is considered good after a lot of tests, and they dont make them just to make them...
Hockquan: Yep, i know, but let's see the type of explosion, they said (one of investigators) that fire on the engine is manageable, but explosion we need to know if it was big or small... anyway, forensics will do the job.
Sully: 153 as said above, 19 injured. and the airport wasnt closed inmediatley but now is closed

Quote from chanoman315 :

153 as said above

Well, some sources says that they have 28 survivors which would mean only 147 dead people (Maybe some of them died in hospital?)

Wow have the death toll risen by that much,when I was watching on Sky news earlier today the estimated figure giving was 40/45.

Very sad news to hear.

Quote from Kdovi :

Well, some sources says that they have 28 survivors which would mean only 147 dead people (Maybe some of them died in hospital?)

6 died in hospital. there were like 179 passengers.
Im watching the news on spanish tv (TVE)

really sad to hear this...today, there were fighter jets flying low, I even thought the crash was here! but anyways, it's a big death toll of over 150 people, only 19 have survived atm. The only thing that takes some relief out of my sadness is that there were situations that could cost more lives...

Quote :

According to some Ex MD 80 pilot the plane was produced in 1983 which is not old according to him

90 odd MD80's have crashed since production begun in 1980 and 1320 + have been killed since the production .
They say they have a "good" safety record

btw, the only solutions for that problem to be solved are the plane model update or retirement of it.

Quote from chanoman315 :

so were you suggest, i think that the design of a plane is considered good after a lot of tests, and they dont make them just to make them...

I could think/post a million and one places solutions other to store aviation fuel than two feet from a jet engine. Somebody who knows of aviation engineering give me the correct term for when a jet engine gets backed up with air and then must reset?(land)?

No matter where the fuel is situated in an event of a accident the fuel will ignite either way as it is pure aviation fuel which is 100 + octane correct ?

Anyone know how the fire started ?

Quote from CSU1 :

I could think/post a million and one places solutions other to store aviation fuel than two feet from a jet engine. Somebody who knows of aviation engineering give me the correct term for when a jet engine gets backed up with air and then must reset?(land)?

shut down the feed to the engine?... the fire doesnt go to the whole airplane, it stats on the engine, still no one knows why they crashed...
o and you dont know aviation engineering so you cant guess where to put the fuel tanks...

i hate planes. RIP

Quote from Hockquan :

I watched a few bits about this on the news earlier and it was said that it is a legal requirement that a plane such as this is able to sustain flight with a single engine failure.

sustain flight when you have altitude and speed, yes. But take off, no.

engine failure is a bit different from engine blowing up as well, if an engine simply fails (stop working) it's still fine, but if it blows up it upsets the whole aerodynamics of the plane and it's a lot more complicated