Quote from sam93 :

Mclaren must have had the car set up to run just for 4th/5th position because Hamilton would of most likely of finished on the podium. Also, do any of you reckon they turned his engine down a little to make mechanical failures less likely?

Yes on engine front, but :S, why would they setup the car for 4th/5th place... lol...

Quote from BenjiMC :

Yes on engine front, but :S, why would they setup the car for 4th/5th place... lol...

Because that's all they needed to get for Hamilton to win the WDC. Racing for points instead of going for the win.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Alonso stays at Renault.

Piquet, too.

Quote :

Team boss Flavio Briatore believes the announcement gives Renault a well-balanced driver line-up going into next year's championship.

How should I read that

Quote from sam93 :

Because that's all they needed to get for Hamilton to win the WDC. Racing for points instead of going for the win.

u setup the car as best as possible, u drive for ur position.

Quote from Mustafur :

Never blow out bs percentage win ratio agiasnt a driver who has had half hes career in a mid field team.

Im not saying Massa is better, hes had more oportunities then lewis to rap this up, he lost 20 points easily from things that could of been easily avoided.and well over 20 that were just ridiculous mistakes(namely the first 2 GPs).

Quote me were i say wining the world championship means your the best driver, it means you had the best overall package(Car and Driver but not Driver only).

What i am saying is the Ferrari was better then the Mclaren hence making hamiltons job more difficult then Massas but in saying that i say hes not head and shoulders above the rest, infact i say there are some that are just as good if not better.
Imo the best Driver on the grid is Vettel.

And the Fuji crash is still nothing(not saying it wasn't a noob mistake though so dont take out of context) and will not even be in the same league as the montreal incident, which yes was this season so it can be included here.

Since when were you a Vettel fan? Before the season ended you supported Webber, Massa and Honda or something like that. If Hamilton noobed up some of his races, how did he still win the championship? That proves how bad Massa really is, he is just not fast enough on the day. Take the stats from when he was in a Ferrari and he's still not as successful as Lewis. It makes no difference that he was in Sauber. He's not even close to Lewis statistically, but then again, nobody is. Except Vettel of course, who is the youngest winner.

Quote from 5haz :

Do remember that Massa started off the first year or two of his F1 career in a Sauber, not exactly a fast car at the time.

Massa is not shit, perhaps he used to be a bit naff, but this year he has transformed into a genuine threat, but I think like Hamilton he has bad days, and too many bad days such as Silverstone this year will cost the championship.

I do remember when Massa drove for Sauber, and he crashed just as much as Villeneuve did. Kimi got a hell of a lot more out of the Sauber than Massa did. As he does with the Ferrari. I'll admit Massa has improved this season, his best race for me was Hungaroring, just a shame he couldn't win it but Mustafur should know better than to talk like that when before he seemed like he HAD a brain.

I think a lot of Hamilton's impatience this season was due to him losing the championship last season when he felt like he should've won it. He pushed when he shouldn't have pushed this year, because he felt the weight of expectation.

I think this WDC win will calm him down a lot, and it will focus the team around him even more than it already was. Whereas Ferrari have got a defeated ex-champion who looked under-motivated and was off-form for most of the season and his deputy whose best efforts were bettered by a youngster in a lesser car.

Unless Ferrari have got some king of a motivator in their team (surely not Stefano Domenicali, but maybe di Montezemolo) they might struggle to keep up next year.

Quote from PaulC2K :

So your just going to ignore what i wrote and dismiss it as BS so you dont have to respond to the valid points in there? Noice!
I wish i was ignorant enough to do that.

Its funny though, you claim i base it on 1 corner, yet i was talking about the whole season, while your insistant on talking about the last couple of races... im amazing how 2-faced you can be about something.

Your saying that Lewis wasnt able to match Vettels speed in Monza? hmm, maybe the fact that he had to pass FOURTEEN cars in order to acheive a win, which he would have got, while Vettel sat and drove an uninterupted, unchallenged race.

Also, if your talking about fastest race lap, Vettel didnt get it, Kimi did, so in that case the Ferrari was faster.
So basically, in terms of race pace over ~90min, Hamilton was faster than him, and in terms of fastest lap in the race, Kimi was faster than him... as was: Bourdais, Webber, Massa, Lewis, Heidfeld, JENSON BLOODY BUTTON, Glock, Alonso, Rosberg, Nakajima, Kubica and Kovi.
But hey, he beat Sutil

I know those are all based on laps done right at the end when Vettel didnt need to push (although he was, if you watched the interviews he refused to slow down till the last lap).
But even if midway through the race he held a fastest lap, the fact that Lewis would have won if it wasnt for the timing of the weather changing, forcing him to make an unscheduled stop, so you cant come from 15th to 1st without the leaders making a mistake or being faster than them for a significant proportion of the race.
Im not disputing the fact that what Vettel acheived was way above what is expected from him, thats obvious, however you (anyone) cant say he was the fastest driver that race as he just wasnt.

"Its funny How people Claim Massa sucks because he can only win from the front row yet he has won the most races this season, what does that say."
It says he's started on the front row of a race quite a lot of times, and if he had the balls & ability to overtake people midway through a race and come through the field he'd have wrapped the title up without the FIA's help giving him free points, ignoring blatent rules broken he's entirely responsible for, while punishing him for the same issue which was the teams fault when he was already well out of contention to pick up some points.

Im not saying he sucks, but he isnt a worthy champion IMO. The fact that Kimi had to drop back ~20sec in China to let him get undeserved points so hes only 7 points away instead of 9, which should have been 10 if the FIA didnt make BS rulings to gift points. I havent seen enough from Massa to say he's a potential F1 champion, maybe the pain of missing out this year will drive his determination... who knows.

Vettels overall pace was uncomparable to anyone that day, one lap pace is completely different.
The truth was even Webber was faster then Hamilton, only reason he was even behind him in the first place was due to a poorly timed pit stop and the fact hamilton can't block without hitting someone.

Remember Vettel still had a far surpirior Mclaren behind him(kovy) getting the **** pwned out of it.

And dont give me the Massa is crap because Kimi let him past in china bs, What about Germany this year?

Did lewis not get gifted by hekki's obvious wide corner attempt?

The fact is Massa has been at the front of the grid mostly all season and when he wasn't I could probably agree but that only comes back to one race and thats silverstone, but hey bahrain in the dry is more difficult?

Massa has the ability to pass through the field as shown last year but this year he hasn't been put in the same situation as much, so thats why.

Hes only real chance to show that in normal conditions was in canada and allthough he did come 5th he overtook half the race whilst being on a unfavourable pit strategy.


Also what happened in Bahrain and france this year with lewis, i totally forgot?

Now to end the massa bs and get back to the season conclusion.

Excellent end to the season, The BETTER MAN WON(yes thats right so please).

Looking forward to next year Alonso and Piquet have been confirmed for what should be a title contening Renault hopefully next year.

Next year will be super hard to predict and i think reliablity will be a HUGE issue next year, the gaps between cars are going to be huge but it promotes more races like suzuka 05 which is.

Quote from Mustafur :

Vettels overall pace was uncomparable to anyone that day, one lap pace is completely different.
The truth was even Webber was faster then Hamilton, only reason he was even behind him in the first place was due to a poorly timed pit stop and the fact hamilton can't block without hitting someone.

Remember Vettel still had a far surpirior Mclaren behind him(kovy) getting the **** pwned out of it.

And dont give me the Massa is crap because Kimi let him past in china bs, What about Germany this year?

Did lewis not get gifted by hekki's obvious wide corner attempt?

The fact is Massa has been at the front of the grid mostly all season and when he wasn't I could probably agree but that only comes back to one race and thats silverstone, but hey bahrain in the dry is more difficult?

Massa has the ability to pass through the field as shown last year but this year he hasn't been put in the same situation as much, so thats why.

Hes only real chance to show that in normal conditions was in canada and allthough he did come 5th he overtook half the race whilst being on a unfavourable pit strategy.


Also what happened in Bahrain and france this year with lewis, i totally forgot?

Now to end the massa bs and get back to the season conclusion.

Excellent end to the season, The BETTER MAN WON(yes thats right so please).

Looking forward to next year Alonso and Piquet have been confirmed for what should be a title contening Renault hopefully next year.

Next year will be super hard to predict and i think reliablity will be a HUGE issue next year, the gaps between cars are going to be huge but it promotes more races like suzuka 05 which is.

obviously YOU NEVER WATCHED F1 BEFORE, or YOU DON'T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT OTHER TEAMS OTHER THAN MCLAREN OR FERRARI~?

what happened at Germany was common practice amongst F1 teams for crying out loud, one driver in a team is clearly faster than the other, of course the slower driver (who isn't leading at the time obviously), would let the other driver go through, so the faster driver can go attack the drivers in front, which in the end the team would score more points. Doesn't take a huge amount of brain powers to work that one out. that happened all the time...

Where as the swap of position in China was just that, a pure swap of position, where THE FASTER DRIVER gave the position away to the SLOWER DRIVER at that particular race, notice any difference in the two scenario~?

havn't watched the posts before yet so I won't comment on your other points.... yet~

Quote from The Moose :

Coming next week..... Mattesa discovers who will be the next President of the USA...

Actually... I was on a plane over the Pacific when the election results were called. Obama winning wasn't as big a surprise.

Quote from JCTK :

obviously YOU NEVER WATCHED F1 BEFORE, or YOU DON'T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT OTHER TEAMS OTHER THAN MCLAREN OR FERRARI~?

what happened at Germany was common practice amongst F1 teams for crying out loud, one driver in a team is clearly faster than the other, of course the slower driver (who isn't leading at the time obviously), would let the other driver go through, so the faster driver can go attack the drivers in front, which in the end the team would score more points. Doesn't take a huge amount of brain powers to work that one out. that happened all the time...

Where as the swap of position in China was just that, a pure swap of position, where THE FASTER DRIVER gave the position away to the SLOWER DRIVER at that particular race, notice any difference in the two scenario~?

havn't watched the posts before yet so I won't comment on your other points.... yet~

Please read before posting next time i was replying to a quote

Quote from BlueFlame :

Since when were you a Vettel fan? Before the season ended you supported Webber, Massa and Honda or something like that. If Hamilton noobed up some of his races, how did he still win the championship? That proves how bad Massa really is, he is just not fast enough on the day. Take the stats from when he was in a Ferrari and he's still not as successful as Lewis. It makes no difference that he was in Sauber. He's not even close to Lewis statistically, but then again, nobody is. Except Vettel of course, who is the youngest winner.
I do remember when Massa drove for Sauber, and he crashed just as much as Villeneuve did. Kimi got a hell of a lot more out of the Sauber than Massa did. As he does with the Ferrari. I'll admit Massa has improved this season, his best race for me was Hungaroring, just a shame he couldn't win it but Mustafur should know better than to talk like that when before he seemed like he HAD a brain.

I do support Webber, but doesn't mean i think he is the best, maybe you should learn from that.
and I have been a Vettel fan since the start of the season

I was also a Massa Fan(kinda) untill about Spa.

The truth is both are noobs when it came to getting this title this year but comparing them to the rest of the field is obvious why i think both deserve it.

Like i said before when you compare Massas much more diffcult start to F1 to lewis you can't put statistics in.

Since the start of 07 the stats look like this:

Poles: Massa 12 Hamilton 13
Fastest laps: Massa 9 Hamilton 3
Wins: Massa 9 Hamilton 9
Podiums: Massa 20 Hamilton 22

add them all together:
Massa 50 Hamilton 47

The statistics are not completely in his favour as you can see, sure you could add 06 but Lewis wasn't racing

But in saying that, the fact hamilton is close to Massa means its more impressive given hes experience.

Quote from Mustafur :

Please read before posting next time i was replying to a quote

sorry I DID read the quote regarding the points I was making~

Quote from JCTK :

sorry I DID read the quote regarding the points I was making~

obviously YOU NEVER WATCHED F1 BEFORE, or YOU DON'T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT OTHER TEAMS OTHER THAN MCLAREN OR FERRARI~?

Mustafur is a devil people. haha
and JTCK the person Mustafur just replied to, appears to be half-of-a-devil.

Quote from blueflame :

mustafur Is A Devil People. Haha
And Jtck The Person Mustafur Just Replied To, Appears To Be Half-of-a-devil. :d

Lmfao:d

Quote from Mustafur :

obviously YOU NEVER WATCHED F1 BEFORE, or YOU DON'T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT OTHER TEAMS OTHER THAN MCLAREN OR FERRARI~?

that came from what I have read before regarding to what u posted, and what u said about the Heikki gifting the position to Lewis~

Quote from BlueFlame :

Mustafur is a devil people. haha
and JTCK the person Mustafur just replied to, appears to be half-of-a-devil.

oops so I should keep myself right out of the devil's conversation~

ooh and on a completely different side note, we now has a first time ever black F1 World Champion and a first time ever black president for the US, how time has changed... lol

http://www.formula1.com/services/play_video.html

watch Brazil

watch the bit where massa's dad gets told he aint won... then they show Hamilton... and then BOOM!!!! you know'll what I mean when you see it . That is one crazy mech!

I think they used a great choice of song there. Knights of Cydonia by Muse.

Nice video, thought it was average until that last bit. If its any consolation to Massa, he has earned the respect of many fans and the whole F1 paddock by taking the loss so well. I thought he was a nice guy before, but now I have even more respect for him and I hope he does have the chance to fight for the title next year.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Nice video, thought it was average until that last bit. If its any consolation to Massa, he has earned the respect of many fans and the whole F1 paddock by taking the loss so well. I thought he was a nice guy before, but now I have even more respect for him and I hope he does have the chance to fight for the title next year.

Let's not forget his attitude towards the Bourdais incident - 'weren't my fault gov, honest! It was him gov'. And he happily took the Spa 'victory'. Are we not forgetting VALENCIA!??

He only lost a championship that he should never have been in contention with in the first place in Brazil. Took it well? He shouldn't have had a chance to take anything well!

Quote from Intrepid :

Are we not forgetting VALENCIA!??

you mean that dramatic incident the circumstances of which repeated itself almost exactly with a honda and some other car in brazil which caused the fia to do nothing at all?

I dunno, I too have basically always been going for Hamilton, due to my Anti-ferrari base, but after watching Massa's emotion throughout the whole post-race stuff... he gained a hell of a lot of respect from me, and as much as I liked that Hamilton won. Part of me wishes now that Massa would have won.

Quote from Intrepid :

Let's not forget his attitude towards the Bourdais incident - 'weren't my fault gov, honest! It was him gov'. And he happily took the Spa 'victory'. Are we not forgetting VALENCIA!??

He only lost a championship that he should never have been in contention with in the first place in Brazil. Took it well? He shouldn't have had a chance to take anything well!

Thanks to hungary

Are you saying if Hamilton was in Massas position and got gifted free points he wouldn't take them?

Any driver would regardless, its a dog eat dog world out there.

Quote from Mustafur :

Thanks to hungary

Are you saying if Hamilton was in Massas position and got gifted free points he wouldn't take them?

Any driver would regardless, its a dog eat dog world out there.

Explain this Mustafur. Please.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl5aMMRgTEk
For that alone. Massa just loses all respect, he makes no attempt to avoid the crash. And the Bourdais incident is just pathetic, gifted my the FIA so he can get another point, ****ing pathetic gifted another point he didn't deserve, because he ****ed up Hamiltons race (arguably ****ed up anyway)