It was manslaughter not murder, manslaughter is killing without intent or if you don't realise what you're doing. There is no excuse for killing someone, but there is an important difference between murder and manslaughter.
It was manslaughter not murder, manslaughter is killing without intent or if you don't realise what you're doing. There is no excuse for killing someone, but there is an important difference between murder and manslaughter.
How can you stab someone and "not mean to kill them?"
The rule isn't interpreted equally strictly by all Muslims. Morocco and Turkey produce wine, Turkey has it's Raki liquor, Indonesia has arak, etc. Even the word "alcohol" itself has Arabic roots.
But I doubt you'll see binge drinking in Muslim countries.The courts said he took the knife to protect his son, who was being attacked by the other man. They said his intent was defensive, and in a blind rage he killed the man instead. It's slightly more complicated than that, but it was a verdict reached in court, not a newspaper editors choice of headline or a story to recruit people to the BNP, although the facts have been distorted to do exactly that.
Just one small point, our legal system gives two grounds for doing so: Self defence (where force used is deemed 'reasonable'); and military.
Aside from that, debate away... Personally I dont think discussion of 1 particular incident can in anyway help the general discourse of the topic. Of course there are injustices and irregularities in application, unless you want to sit as jury in every case ever heard then that will always be so.
Definitely the moderator in me said that the thread should be locked long ago. There's a part of me that always holds out some hope that at least a few people will have a rational reaction to the content of the thread and pick up a broader perspective on the issues being discussed.. and that the thread will serve a positive purpose in that.
I should close the thread, really. It became repetitive a long time ago. There's been no progress for days, now. Maybe it will just fade away.
Locking a thread in the heat of a contentious issue doesnt make the problem go away, in this thread at least I think we've moved beyond that.
The BNP have been discussed here before less you recall, but it was stiffled very soon. This time I actually think this thread has been productive, because even if it has not changed the minds of anyone who supports the BNP, for me it has enabled me to understand and the rationale and justifications used for supporting that organisation which gives me something to contemplate: Not in supporting them myself of course, but in dealing with them in the future.
Because even if nothing further comes of this thread I can be fairly confident i'll come across the BNP again, and the more I understand them the more chance I have of surving my next encounter too.
The BNP have been discussed here before less you recall, but it was stiffled very soon. This time I actually think this thread has been productive, because even if it has not changed the minds of anyone who supports the BNP, for me it has enabled me to understand and the rationale and justifications used for supporting that organisation which gives me something to contemplate: Not in supporting them myself of course, but in dealing with them in the future.
Because even if nothing further comes of this thread I can be fairly confident i'll come across the BNP again, and the more I understand them the more chance I have of surving my next encounter too.
And on a lighter note, its given me yet another reason not to want to go to Redline Racing
Well how mature of you.
I just randomly stumbled onto this, and it seemed topical for the first two thirds or so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... qOg&feature=rec-HM-r2
You are not one to talk about maturity
Time and time again you have proven yourself to be a mindless solider...First to RedLine, now to the BNP.You do this very well I might add.
By that I take it you mean you want 'us' to agree with 'you', which isn't opening up your mind to the fact that 'we' think differently to 'you', and have a rather different (and, to you, brutal, immoral, illegal and racist) outlook on the whole situation. However 'we' see 'your' stance as being pussy-footed "dare not say anything offensive to anyone at any time" stupidity that is that whole cause of why the country is (and I believe it is) being overrun (i.e. it's not overrun at the moment, but it is becoming overrun) by Johnny "here to scrounge off the state in any way, shape or form without even attempting to learn English properly, or intergrating into whatever society we have" Foreigner.
Stating what we did in the past as a nation, be it Kurds, the occupation of Iraq, the Kingdom of Britain etc doesn't make a blind bit if difference to the here and now. If the fact that England had (has) it faults in the past means that the current people of England cannot complain to the current 'invasion' therefore gives me the right to call all Germans Nazis (which, quite clearly, they are not), and to call all black skinned people ni... you-know-what.
You might see this as foolish, sticking-my-heels-in stubborness, but I have yet to see a single compelling reason not to like several aspects of several policies of the BNP stated much earlier in the thread. I shan't be voting for them (well, I might, but it'd only be out of spite for this particular thread
), and I shan't be joining them or giving them money. But I will continue to see HUGE quantities of merit in some of their policies.Oh dear, you wonder why your banned for life? because you a flame baiting attention seeking idiot, even in threads that have nothing to do with the subject you push and push trying to be the centre of attention. BOOO HOOOO they banned me from redline and i done nothing i told you they were nazi's! like WTF!!!!1111!11 nobody cares grow up and get over yourself.
Cmon guys. Let's keep the personal insults and petit comments out of this already verge-of-being-destroyed-thread? 
Edit : Well said Tristan, didn't see that little post you made there.
Edit : Well said Tristan, didn't see that little post you made there.
Actually no, exactly the opposite. Instead of spouting my own views on the BNP as I closed the thread (traditional moderator behaviour on most forums I'm sure you'll agree), the thread's been left to run its course - and this despite the greater consensus of wisdom saying that you should never discuss politics and religion. The result has been a largely frank and honest discussion on all sides, in a rainbow of political hues.
[edit] Oh.. I see, you mean your side is irrational and mine is rational. Kind of you to say, but I wasn't painting either side as exclusively rational or irrational.
Sorry to chip off so much of your post, but there's a huge difference between "dare not say anything" and being fair and equal to everybody, no matter what gender, skin colour, religion or nationality that person has.
I for one too think that quotas and the likes are counterproductive. I too think that political correctness is annoying and hypocritical. I don't think however, that a muslim immigrant should be treated differently than a white christian immigrant. I don't regard any human being as a lesser human being than myself
Also, I find it quite problematic to vote for a party if you only support a few of the policies, especially if it has policies like the BNP. It's just a very easy way out, perhaps to ease your own conciousness, to deny those points that go against human rights for example.
With your way of seeing things, I could say the Nazis did good. They really did. After two decades of unrest and stravation, they brought stability and prosperity to the people. They made Germany big again, after it had been crippled by the treaties of Versailles. They made sure everyone had a job. They even handed out free bikes for kids, which were back then a luxury beyond reach for the ordinary rural polulation.
No need to mention those few million dead because of mass murders and war, fueled by an ideology of hatred and arrogance.
As much as I disagree with Andy, Tristan, Bladey et al, I am at least encouraged by the fact that they - publicly at least - denounce prejudice. Regardless of what they've read where and how I feel about some of their views on related topics du jour, it's nice to know they don't think racism is acceptable.
I still think the BNP's supporters are all xenophobic ****heads, but I have some faith that the people involved in this argument don't identify with those ****heads.
Yes, I'd agree the lack of moderation is welcome and a good thing, and very rare. You have to be applauded. But then, I am a big fan of the level of moderation here - fair but firm, with a degree of sensible allowance.
But I wouldn't say that your arguments are rational to my irrational. I'd just say that yours are just as blind to us as ours might seem to you. A slight, but cunning, difference.
And that is why I don't think anyone in this thread has said they will consider voting for the BNP (apart from my in jest one, but I'm hoping people saw that as light hearted?).
Precisely. Many good things came from the policies of that party. Then they went a bit too far, probably even for the most hardened BNP supporter!
Plenty of reason to mention it - one, it happened. Two, the argument that Britain did wrong in the past so cannot have an opinion now (even a minority opinion) is the same thing as saying Germany did wrong once and therefore must still be wrong.
Please don't think I'm condoning the Nazi party of that (or any) era in such ways. I'm just using one argument against another that is valid and shows that it's silly. Yes, Britain messed up a lot of countries and ended up giving them back. But it doesn't mean I want 'that sort of immigrant' in our country. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I'll think I'll get back to lurking in this thread. It was much easier
Edit: Kev is about right, funnily enough. We don't support, condone or (willingly) mix with those ****heads. But we appreciate that some of the things they stand for agree with us at some level. Not enough for a vote, for money or for membership.
I think the problem sometimes... Sorry, YOUR problem sometimes is that you enjoy being contrary and disagreeable and obnoxious for the sake of it so much that you don't really care what impression you give other people.
You might think "Oh it's the internet, who cares, everybody trolls however they like on the internet" but really... I don't know, maybe I've got you wrong and you mean everything you've said, but I don't think so. I think you've been taking a stance somewhere well to the right of what you really believe just for the sake of argument and to wind up some of the uber-liberals in here.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
I think a correction is in order. I really am like this! It reality, sitting in a pub for instance, I might not come over quite as forthright because words are a pretty stark form of communication, but the principal and intent would be the same. I gave up trolling and being contrary for the sake of it a long time ago!
I can't remember the conversations at the LFS karting meets I attended, but perhaps one of the other attendees will be able to confirm that too? Or maybe I was on 'special behaviour' and pretended to be luvvie for the day. I have found that wanting stupid people shot (or at least make sterile) hasn't affected my ability to have a giggle most of the time
I can't remember the conversations at the LFS karting meets I attended, but perhaps one of the other attendees will be able to confirm that too? Or maybe I was on 'special behaviour' and pretended to be luvvie for the day. I have found that wanting stupid people shot (or at least make sterile) hasn't affected my ability to have a giggle most of the time
I don't notice a whole lot of posts here from the Norwegian or Swiss people. If I recall correctly, it is damn near impossible to become a citizen of those countries or even live there long enough to benfit from the government. As a result, they have few problems with population control, dissolving national culture, or most of the problems that Britain has with immigration. I for one have respect for a country that is able to control its population because of the immigration problem in California. What are these countries doing right in terms of immigration that Britain and the USA are not?
Just trying to move the discussion in a new, less boring direction.
Just trying to move the discussion in a new, less boring direction.
They're not major world economies like the UK and the USA. They don't appear to be the huge economic opportunity that we do.
You'll probably find that Zimbabwe doesn't have a huge immigration problem either.
ah that could be it. My logic was that citizens of those countries live well and have working social welfare systems because they don't allow immigration. It might follow that if the UK and US did not allow immigration, those systems would be less strained in the UK and could be implemented in the US.
Perhaps countries should be selective in who they let immigrate based on skills. If the country needs doctors, let doctors in; if the country needs engineers (as the US has a great need for) or carpenters, laborers, etc. let as many in as you need.
Perhaps countries should be selective in who they let immigrate based on skills. If the country needs doctors, let doctors in; if the country needs engineers (as the US has a great need for) or carpenters, laborers, etc. let as many in as you need.
EH????!!!!!
Switzerland not a major economy???http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland
PLEASE do some research before spouting nonsense!!!!!
The fact is, the Swiss have a very nice system when it comes to handing out benefits to scroungers...they even use THREE different languages to tell the scroungers to "P*SS OFF"
btw, talking about immigration policies, I notice things are quiet from our Australian members!
BNP membership data leaked - whoops!
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