I wanted to know if that was legal, of course I saw it at DDSConverter in VWS_Interior2.dds I think!

Quote from gezmoor :

I would expect more flexibility of set up, but in a road car I expect next to none.

It's the opposite. A low-specs sport car is the easiest to tune. You can find extremely good suspension bundles (springs, adjustable dampers and ARB) for "quite cheap" (understand £500 a set if you stick with the stock suspension geometry), which can diabolically change the car's behavior. Also, you can buy a Clutch Pack LSD for around the same price.
I don't know yet about the wheel adjustment prices but I would say (correct me if I'm wrong) between £500 and £700 depending on what you want to do (toe, camber, or both). and let's say £400 for the aftermarket rims.

Thus, my setup on the XRG would cost around £2100, since I was too cheap to switch to supers (£400 more!)
On the other hand, more expensive cars are more expensive to tune.

In spec-car series, like the Mazda Spec in the US, the cars ned to have specific parts (such as the Mazdaspeed suspension) which is mandatory, but adjustable as you'd like to

In LFS, we are not driving completely stock road cars. Otherwise, most of them would have to have a fixed Open Diff. If it was the case, LFS would lose its title of "Racing Simulator" (as it simulates a bit the rules of Spec series) to the one of "Sunday Fast Driver Simulator".

The only thing that would be nice is, of course, the limitation of the transmission settings, but this belongs to another topic.

___

Concerning the rims, I thought the RS Watanabe were the lightest rims ever made? Did OZ beat them with their Super or Ultraleggera ?

Quote from Zen321 :

Concerning the rims, I thought the RS Watanabe were the lightest rims ever made? Did OZ beat them with their Super or Ultraleggera ?

I wasn't suggesting the Super OR Ultraleggera wheels were the lightest production alloy wheels, but I did say that they are very light wheels anyway.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I wasn't suggesting the Super OR Ultraleggera wheels were the lightest production alloy wheels, but I did say that they are very light wheels anyway.

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting they were either I was just asking, because I need to find a pair of rims for my "rally" car and I plan on buying the lightest ones (when I got enough money ). So I wanted to have like the latest-to-date information about the wheels

Quote from Zen321 :

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting they were either I was just asking, because I need to find a pair of rims for my "rally" car and I plan on buying the lightest ones (when I got enough money ). So I wanted to have like the latest-to-date information about the wheels

What car is it that you are modifying?

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

I justed wanted to post one more set of wheels!

hahahahahaa :ices_rofl:bump::uglyhamme but now let´s stop talking about rims or they´ll cloase the thread

So, I went on holiday at a bad time... I see all this 3 days after it happened. WOW. Just WOW.

Thanks devs for a sweet-looking car. I've been looking at the model in the CMX viewer and the detail is superb. You switch between the VWS and the RB4 in the viewer, and you wonder whether it's part of the same game. The FBM was good, but it appears the VWS sets a new standard of modelling (but hopefully one that isn't excessively hungry on the polys or frame rates).

I bet it drives nicely too.

Niiiice work Lynce

Of course, I break my wrist last night playing indoor soccer (football, I know!), so no Scirocco for me until late January 2009. ARRRRRRRRRRRGH!

Enjoy the new ride, boys!

Take care,
PK

use the other wrist!

fixed! now i can see the scirocco clearly, all nasty polys are gone.
thx.

only just heard about this.....wow! can't wait

Quote from Zen321 :

It's the opposite. A low-specs sport car is the easiest to tune. You can find extremely good suspension bundles (springs, adjustable dampers and ARB) for "quite cheap" (understand £500 a set if you stick with the stock suspension geometry), which can diabolically change the car's behavior. Also, you can buy a Clutch Pack LSD for around the same price.
I don't know yet about the wheel adjustment prices but I would say (correct me if I'm wrong) between £500 and £700 depending on what you want to do (toe, camber, or both). and let's say £400 for the aftermarket rims.

?

Yes I am fully aware of that. However the Scirocco in LFS is supposed to be a stock production car. As stock none of these things would be options.

Anyway all of your cheap suspension options will be pretty unadjustable, just have different settings from the OEM units. You only start getting the option of adjustable settings on suspension with more expensive coil-over options, (ususally starting from around £6-700 for the likes of Koni units and going well over £1000 for well spec'd Bilstein etc)

As I said, if there was a GT version of the Scirocco in LFS then it would make sense to have adjustable suspention settings as such a car would almost certainly be fitted with fully adjustable "race" suspension.

PS - camber/toe settings are often adjustable at the front on cars such as the Scirocco but very often they are fixed at the back. The only way to adjust them is to fit camber shims.

Quote from Zen321 :

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting they were either I was just asking, because I need to find a pair of rims for my "rally" car and I plan on buying the lightest ones (when I got enough money ). So I wanted to have like the latest-to-date information about the wheels

Superlite http://www.superlite-wheels.com/

Dymag http://www.dymag.com/

Quote from Zen321 :

It's the opposite. A low-specs sport car is the easiest to tune.
[...]

It's not about how easy it is to change the car's behaviour, though - it's about how fine adjustments you can make to the components. This doesn't only affect gearing, it affects nearly every setting currently available. For most of LFS' road cars and the state of tuning they represent you'd have at best a few settings to choose from.

Example current vs. how it should be:
- brake strength adjustable to 1 Nm vs. not adjustable at all
- spring stiffness adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 5 choices from soft to hard (?)
- damping adjustable to 0.1 Ns/mm vs. maybe having 8 clicks available or less
- anti-roll adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 6 ARB strengths to choose from or less
- maximum lock, parallel steer, gearing... you get the idea

Quote from gezmoor :

Superlite http://www.superlite-wheels.com/

Dymag http://www.dymag.com/

The RS Watanabe is pretty much a superlite wheel anyway. He's already on the correct track!

Quote from BlueFlame :

The RS Watanabe is pretty much a superlite wheel anyway. He's already on the correct track!

Just presenting options

Quote from gezmoor :

Just presenting options

I was only toying

Quote from AndroidXP :

It's not about how easy it is to change the car's behaviour, though - it's about how fine adjustments you can make to the components. This doesn't only affect gearing, it affects nearly every setting currently available. For most of LFS' road cars and the state of tuning they represent you'd have at best a few settings to choose from.

Example current vs. how it should be:
- brake strength adjustable to 1 Nm vs. not adjustable at all
- spring stiffness adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 5 choices from soft to hard (?)
- damping adjustable to 0.1 Ns/mm vs. maybe having 8 clicks available or less
- anti-roll adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 6 ARB strengths to choose from or less
- maximum lock, parallel steer, gearing... you get the idea

Exactly. It's practically unheard of for suspension units to be infinitely adjustable. At least for cars anyway. It's relatively common for production sports bikes to have continuosly adjustable rebound/compression damping. But even they have limited preload/ride height options.

I think ultimately LFS is going to have to move towards suspension options, (rather than infinitely adjustable everything), much as it does now for tyres.

For example you pick a damper, (eg koni etc) and your spring, (eg eibach etc). The units you pick will have set options such as preset no of rebound/compression damping values; fixed spring-rate & length etc

Then it's up to the user to find the combo that works best for the car concerned, the circuit and their driving style etc.

That's what I'd like to see anyway.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I was only toying

Quote from AndroidXP :

It's not about how easy it is to change the car's behaviour, though - it's about how fine adjustments you can make to the components. This doesn't only affect gearing, it affects nearly every setting currently available. For most of LFS' road cars and the state of tuning they represent you'd have at best a few settings to choose from.

Example current vs. how it should be:
- brake strength adjustable to 1 Nm vs. not adjustable at all
- spring stiffness adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 5 choices from soft to hard (?)
- damping adjustable to 0.1 Ns/mm vs. maybe having 8 clicks available or less
- anti-roll adjustable to 0.1 N/mm vs. maybe having 6 ARB strengths to choose from or less
- maximum lock, parallel steer, gearing... you get the idea

Reducing the amount of available settings is the easiest thing to do right now…
But I see no point in doing that, especially in that developing state the simulator is.
Having less setup options would only mask the physics flaws.
Apart from that… being in a simulated environment you don’t have to pay for each adjustment – modification you want to do. I see no point in reducing them just for the shake of it.
I agree than in a final product, there could be some restrictions in the available settings according to each car’s class. But that’s after the completion of the physics model.

Also having restricted damper/arb/springs settings, means that these pre-set options should be carefully selected so they match each other.
I very often have to use that 1NM of spring or ARB stiffness in order to balance the suspension for relevant timed weight transfers between the front and the rear ends, in direction changes, regardless the track.

In real life there is a small number of available options because some mechanics do extensive testing on vehicles deciding the specifications of any suspension package will be supplied in the market by any company.
Any adjustable damper is paired with a certain small range of springs. In some cases you may want to re-valve your dampers in order to fit your needs. And I am not even referring to club racing classes… I am just talking about street cars with minor modifications.

Who is going to play that role in LFS?
Having enough experience in lfs setups and seeing how hard track and race-S setup are made, (almost random spring frequencies regardless the damping, plenty of rebound overdamping, not enough suspension travel, random anti roll bars, plenty of bottoming out and poor drivability in general.)
I really hope that Scawen will not decide to play that role… unless he has time… and I mean a really long period of time to find the appropriate settings for the suspension presellected options. And this isn’t going to happen anytime soon because he has got to do many more important things for the development of the sim.

Same goes e.g to suspension geometry changes. Yes you can not change caster to any mass production road car in completely stock form… But if you want, there is almost always a way to change it, using usually inexpensive aftermarket kits. (Not only by changing top mounts of the widely used McPherson struts).
Same goes to camber, although you may not be able to go as far as -5degrees.

Restricting the gearbox ratio settings appears to be the most valid point, because some ratios are even not possible to be produced in any way… Also Ackerman steering could be one of the not adjustable chassis characteristics, like inclination. But I do not see the point even for thiese restrictons.

Quote from kaynd :

Reducing the amount of available settings ...

Totally agree

They just need to decide what each car really is.

If it's a low level club racer or one-make cup type series then they should find a similar class/series and copy its technical regulations, which almost invariably are dictated by costs I imagine.

If it's a road car fundamentally, then again they should reduce adjustability accordingly, drastically. Yes you could buy a huge list of parts which would allow a wide range of adjustment, but since inclusion of a road car would basically make it a road car race series (this is a racing simulation) then regulations would prohibit modifications for fairness. If it's not ACTUALLY a road car, then give it a roll cage at least!

If it's a full on professional purpose built race car then find a similar real world model in an appropriate series and copy the technical regulations and specifications.

This grey area of road car/race car/trackday car is just confusing and unimaginative, almost lazy really.

With the inclusion of a Scirocco road car (blatantly nothing more than that) most users will expect to see races involving that Scirocco road car, not its "LFS-Handling-Adjustment-Pack" equipped cousin, which apart from looking the same is actually very very different. I would, except I know better. Within 5 minutes they'll be dropped and stiffened, camber ramped up, arbs messed with, steering messed with, locked diff chucked in, gearing fine tuned etc etc etc - so long road car.

Although fingers crossed.