It's the nature of the place. Put on your plonker filter.
It's the nature of the place. Put on your plonker filter.
why should the Devs feel bad about it? Remember the mourning when the clutch overheating was added, quite similar. And afaik the ABS was added for the lot of keyboard/mouse racers, and imo to help demo users managing thier first corner 
I think it's fair enough to discuss ABS brakes as they are an important feature of this series of test patches.
One bug report was that the "Braking - GTI" lesson text is now quite wrong and inapproriate for a car with ABS brakes. I'm thinking the XF GTI should have its ABS removed, specially as the real car which it was loosely based on does not have ABS brakes, so it was a mistake fitting it with ABS in the first place.
However, the car that the XR GT was loosely based on does have ABS brakes so from that point of view it should be there in LFS. I thought that the XF GTI had a slight advantage, because if I visit a host with XFG and XRG, most people seem to be driving an XF GTI. So I was thinking that leaving ABS on the XR GT would be good for balancing. However, I am told the XR GT is usually faster and a quick look at the hotlap tables seems to agree that this is the case. So I'm not sure about the consequences of removing it from the XF GTI and leaving it on the XR GT.
One the related subject of whether it should be there at all, I think it should definitely be fitted to those cars on which it has been enabled, except the XF GTI and possibly the XR GT (as discussed above). I'm considering the possibility of passing the ABS state of the setup to InSim so host control programs can decide what they want to do if someone uses ABS. At first sight it does seem to be a good idea to allow hosts to enforce a no ABS rule, but I have not yet looked into the code for this.
One bug report was that the "Braking - GTI" lesson text is now quite wrong and inapproriate for a car with ABS brakes. I'm thinking the XF GTI should have its ABS removed, specially as the real car which it was loosely based on does not have ABS brakes, so it was a mistake fitting it with ABS in the first place.
However, the car that the XR GT was loosely based on does have ABS brakes so from that point of view it should be there in LFS. I thought that the XF GTI had a slight advantage, because if I visit a host with XFG and XRG, most people seem to be driving an XF GTI. So I was thinking that leaving ABS on the XR GT would be good for balancing. However, I am told the XR GT is usually faster and a quick look at the hotlap tables seems to agree that this is the case. So I'm not sure about the consequences of removing it from the XF GTI and leaving it on the XR GT.
One the related subject of whether it should be there at all, I think it should definitely be fitted to those cars on which it has been enabled, except the XF GTI and possibly the XR GT (as discussed above). I'm considering the possibility of passing the ABS state of the setup to InSim so host control programs can decide what they want to do if someone uses ABS. At first sight it does seem to be a good idea to allow hosts to enforce a no ABS rule, but I have not yet looked into the code for this.
I think that the xfg should keep the abs 
Scawen, I genuinely think it should be a host config option rather than an InSim option. It's easy for a few of us to check flags because we're already running InSim apps and doing exactly that already.. but I do think an /allowabs yes|no (default yes) host config option would be appreciated by the majority of hosts that exist. Many of them aren't able to run InSim control applications.
[edit] Actually, both in InSim and also host config. Then those of us who are controlling flags can allow ABS on the server but then have the additional control over individual cars.
I'll confirm that too. The reason the XFG is popular is because of the lack of "bottle" needed to race it. Even I can win a race in an XRG, so it must be faster.
[edit] Actually, both in InSim and also host config. Then those of us who are controlling flags can allow ABS on the server but then have the additional control over individual cars.
I'll confirm that too. The reason the XFG is popular is because of the lack of "bottle" needed to race it. Even I can win a race in an XRG, so it must be faster.
I believe it would be very useful to make a statement on the concept behind the road going cars in LFS. Are they taken directly from the street or are they intended for racing?
The current development state of LFS doesn't allow the users to make a decision and it has caused a lot of discussion/criticism.
Afterwards the discussion about wether ABS is appropriate for the cars will be much easier.
Also, is technical feedback encouraged in this discussion? I'd like to comment on the way LFS seems to work in LFS in comparison to my experience from working with Bosch but I'm not going to go through the trouble if there are no chances of positively affecting anything.
Vain
The current development state of LFS doesn't allow the users to make a decision and it has caused a lot of discussion/criticism.
Afterwards the discussion about wether ABS is appropriate for the cars will be much easier.
Also, is technical feedback encouraged in this discussion? I'd like to comment on the way LFS seems to work in LFS in comparison to my experience from working with Bosch but I'm not going to go through the trouble if there are no chances of positively affecting anything.
Vain
Hello Scawen 
I'll tell you my opinion: I think removing it from XFG is a pretty good Idea! That will make XRG a bit easier to drive
About XRT, I think that first you need to balance TBO class.
Well that's maybe a little OT but just to prove you that the TBO class is really bad balanced, take a look at that video where FXO has 5% of restriction and XRT 1%. http://www.lfsfrance.org/repla ... eplays/course3_pouleA.mpr
I'll tell you my opinion: I think removing it from XFG is a pretty good Idea! That will make XRG a bit easier to drive
About XRT, I think that first you need to balance TBO class.
Well that's maybe a little OT but just to prove you that the TBO class is really bad balanced, take a look at that video where FXO has 5% of restriction and XRT 1%. http://www.lfsfrance.org/repla ... eplays/course3_pouleA.mpr
I've not watched the replay but I'm assuming the FXO is clearly faster. While valid, such an example must not be taken alone, as the cars must be balanced on average over all the track variations.
On the subject of XFG versus XRG I don't think the hotlap charts show the full story. Whilst the XRG may show up to have faster WRs, it's also quite a lot harder to drive than the XFG. Simply put, the average driver will be faster in the XFG than the XRG. I'm glad to see you're considering removing the ABS from the XFG, Scawen.
I'm curious to see the effect of ABS on all the TBOs. I'm an XRT guy myself and it's much more more stable now under braking, which presumably will translate to speed. ABS on the FXO may not have as much effect, being FWD and front-heavy.
In very limited testing, I wasn't seeing the ABS indicator come on nearly as much in the FXO as it did in the XRT. Mabye adding ABS to all three will bring the XRT and RB4 even with the FXO now.
Now why couldn't those Finnish guys have put ABS on the '02 Raceabout?
In very limited testing, I wasn't seeing the ABS indicator come on nearly as much in the FXO as it did in the XRT. Mabye adding ABS to all three will bring the XRT and RB4 even with the FXO now.
Now why couldn't those Finnish guys have put ABS on the '02 Raceabout?
IMO ABS would be a welcome addition for cleaner racing on the entry level (and demo) servers as it almost completely removes the chance of making mistakes, especially in those tricky spots where locking the brakes means upsetting the car.
New and recent players who would benefit from the ABS, will have to relearn their braking technique as soon as they move to one of the faster cars (FBM comes to mind).
About the XFG, I'm likely thinking of the wrong car because I remember some trims had 2-way ABS as an option, and wikipedia seems to agree with me
ABS has been developed to increase driveability under heavy braking, e.g. avoiding a stationary object on a wet road.
As a snailfast driver, I did not benefit from the ABS in the XFG. Admittedly I've only tested it on one combo, and it may be that only faster drivers are able to put it to good use.
New and recent players who would benefit from the ABS, will have to relearn their braking technique as soon as they move to one of the faster cars (FBM comes to mind).
About the XFG, I'm likely thinking of the wrong car because I remember some trims had 2-way ABS as an option, and wikipedia seems to agree with me
ABS has been developed to increase driveability under heavy braking, e.g. avoiding a stationary object on a wet road.
As a snailfast driver, I did not benefit from the ABS in the XFG. Admittedly I've only tested it on one combo, and it may be that only faster drivers are able to put it to good use.
I would remove ABS from both cars, or if you want to use it on the XRG then the XF will need a better power to weight ratio to even things up a bit.
Cool, a new patch. But what about those pinball barriers on FE Gold and FE green on the bridge? That shoulb be fixed! No? 
Sure! But if it needs 5% to be equal in AS3, that means it isn't balanced...
I would like to add my little input to the ABS discussion here.
I was racing XFG last night on AS north (Dead Men Racing for free advertisement purposes).
I turned on ABS and cranked up brake strength and found out that by trying not to activate it I needed a better modulation of the brake pedal.
Trying that for a few laps helped me find the threshold much faster that the usual tedious process (save a replay and check with the force view where it locks).
So the ABS should in my opinion remain an option player and server side for the road cars, as it provides a good learning tool.
It is much easier to tell when a tyre is on the limit and to stay close with the ABS orange color and feedback, and I plan to carry on learning how to brake with higher brake forces this way.
Another note: usual setups (meaning shared by a vast amount of users) have a greatly reduced brake strength in order to prevent lockups at 100% braking - braking start conditions. Does the ABS really give a further advantage that than extreme setup option?
I was racing XFG last night on AS north (Dead Men Racing for free advertisement purposes
).I turned on ABS and cranked up brake strength and found out that by trying not to activate it I needed a better modulation of the brake pedal.
Trying that for a few laps helped me find the threshold much faster that the usual tedious process (save a replay and check with the force view where it locks).
So the ABS should in my opinion remain an option player and server side for the road cars, as it provides a good learning tool.
It is much easier to tell when a tyre is on the limit and to stay close with the ABS orange color and feedback, and I plan to carry on learning how to brake with higher brake forces this way.
Another note: usual setups (meaning shared by a vast amount of users) have a greatly reduced brake strength in order to prevent lockups at 100% braking - braking start conditions. Does the ABS really give a further advantage that than extreme setup option?
slightly off topic i suppose, its to do with the CMX viewer, but would come under the subject of the latest graphic updates at the same time
when changing the wheel colour in CMX viewer, the VW badge in the centre of the wheel also changes colour (guessing due to it all being one DDS file?) Any way to rectify this? As im sure Vw dont make gold or pitch black badges
when changing the wheel colour in CMX viewer, the VW badge in the centre of the wheel also changes colour (guessing due to it all being one DDS file?) Any way to rectify this? As im sure Vw dont make gold or pitch black badges
Yep it also makes easier to tune brakes as you'll see which wheels are locking in which corners. I was surprised to notice some locking in corners where I thought there was none.
Another good point.
just a question about braking, have all cars had something done to their braking, because before the patch when i fully applied the brakes in the FXR and locked up the engine didnt lose revs and stall almost, or did it happen, i cant remember, but in the new patch i noticed it immediatly, new features of braking ?
This has to be one of the worst examples of not bothering to read ANYTHING before posting. Come on, open your eyes for goodness sake.. there's no excuse for spamming the test patch thread through such blatent laziness.
The patch doesn't say anything about the FXR, so I think that's a valid question.as for abs on the xrg and not on the xfg, i personally think it would be a good thing as with the xrg braking distances are quite a bit longer sometimes and can cause acidents on severs running the cars but to do this the xfg would need a little work to keep it balanced
nope nothin about any new braking, just abs
Hmm.. maybe it's an over-reaction on my part after misunderstanding the context of kirmy's post, after reading a bunch more spam in this thread - and then adding my own 
Umm.. abs=anti-locking brakes.. so yeah, something about braking
apology accepted
quick question for scawen though, just wondering what "optimisation" you made to have a funny effect with the graphics cards?
This thread is closed
Test Patch Z5 - online compatible (no VW)
(257 posts, closed, started )
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