Quote from BlueFlame :

Reduce the downforce, reduce the grip. But good racing shouldn't need to be manufacturered. It should just happen.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It doesn't exist. It's just a dream.

Ever watch that kart race with all the F1 drivers in equal karts? What happened? Well the fastest guy lead. Then the second fastest guy was in second. Then the third fastest guy was third... and so on. A parade to the end.

Quote from Mattesa :

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It doesn't exist. It's just a dream.

Ever watch that kart race with all the F1 drivers in equal karts? What happened? Well the fastest guy lead. Then the second fastest guy was in second. Then the third fastest guy was third... and so on. A parade to the end.

lol god forbid a motorsport that rewards the best driver with first, the second best driver with second, and the third best driver with third.

If you don't like procession racing watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2uZfnQ5LOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eck8QpTRFY0



Good racing isn't just about overtaking. Fake overtaking with push buttons is much worse than no overtaking IMO. WHere's the skill in that?

Ditch wings I say! For sure it adds speed, and another dimension but IMO has done very little to advance the sport in any way apart from increase dependance on expensive wind tunnels. But as soon as you stop F1 developing then it's dead anyway.

The problem is the continual adding of rules, and inteference from the regulatory body very rarely makes something better.

Quote from Intrepid :

lol god forbid a motorsport that rewards the best driver with first
...
Fake overtaking...

I still maintain that there isn't such a thing as "real" overtaking. Ongoing "battles" between two consistent drivers are rare to nonexistent. Once the faster guy gets in front of the slower guy (the equilibrium state of things, because the faster guy should win right?) there's no way for the slower guy to catch up short of a gimmick like push to pass, or an off-track event like pitting or an accident.

Let me illustrate what needs to take place for genuine overtaking:

- Hamilton: leads Kimi and is lapping .5 faster.
- Kimi: magically cuts 1.0 off his time and passes Hamilton.
- Hamilton: magically cuts 1.0 off his time to regain position.
- Kimi: magically cuts 1.0 off his time again to pass Hamilton.
- Kimi: makes a mistake and slows 1.0 allowing Hamilton to pass.
- and on it goes for 30+ laps

That doesn't happen. If Hamilton is .5 a lap faster, it usually stays that way. You won't get those fluctuations in relative speed between drivers to allow passing.

Quote from Intrepid :

If you don't like procession racing watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2uZfnQ5LOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eck8QpTRFY0

That was great! With the announcer's focus on Hamilton I'm guessing that the announcing wasn't done in 1996.

Quote from Mattesa :

That was great! With the announcer's focus on Hamilton I'm guessing that the announcing wasn't done in 1996.

Had you watched the videos to the end you'd know it was. Hamilton was already champion of the series by then, so obviously the focus was on him.

But I agree, great videos

That's right, I didn't watch to the end.

USF1 early concept designs -

:d

Quote from Intrepid :

USF1 early concept designs -

needs some flames

Quote from Intrepid :

USF1 early concept designs -

Front engine design? :P

Quote from thatguy :

Front engine design? :P

Nope, the nose houses a GAU-8 Avenger 30mm gatling gun. Notice how it is perfectly aligned with the front-rear axis so that the chassis remains stable despite the massive recoil of firing such a gun.

You should also note the presence of golden chaff/flare launchers just above and to the rear of the sidepods. Brilliance.

Quote from samjh :

You should also note the presence of golden chaff/flare launchers just above and to the rear of the sidepods. Brilliance.

not as brilliant as the chav launchers the british teams will be using

uhm bit off-topic but, for mine ICT project i am going to "simulate" how much it would cost to create an F1 car and after some races establish a proper team. However to make the car, i need to know approximate prices of F1 parts (wings, engine, chasis, wheel, wheels etc). I tried google but got nothing. It would be good if the prices were up to-date (2009)
Thanks

Rough guesses as a starting point. Could be factors of ten either way!
Wings - complete assemblies are going to be in the region of £40,000 each
Engine - About £1,000,000 - £3,000,000 each
Chassis - About £3,000,000 each
Wheel - Roughly £5,000 each
Steering wheel - Around £15,000

Megabucks in other words. How exactly do you cost them? Each one has thousands or millions of man hours of research, design and manufacturer, and are made in tiny quantities. Do you price up each one with each man hour at £50/hour, or do you spread the total cost over the total number of items made per year, or do you just make them within an annual departmental budget and sod calculating the 'cost price' because you're not selling them?

You might be able to get vague answers if you write to the F1 teams - they are usually pretty nice with letters. Emails and phone calls won't get you anywhere, and Google is shit for that kind of research. But each F1 team will give you a massively different numbers(except perhaps for the wheels).

Quote from tristancliffe :

Rough guesses as a starting point. Could be factors of ten either way!
Wings - complete assemblies are going to be in the region of £40,000 each
Engine - About £1,000,000 - £3,000,000 each
Chassis - About £3,000,000 each
Wheel - Roughly £5,000 each
Steering wheel - Around £15,000

Megabucks in other words. How exactly do you cost them? Each one has thousands or millions of man hours of research, design and manufacturer, and are made in tiny quantities. Do you price up each one with each man hour at £50/hour, or do you spread the total cost over the total number of items made per year, or do you just make them within an annual departmental budget and sod calculating the 'cost price' because you're not selling them?

You might be able to get vague answers if you write to the F1 teams - they are usually pretty nice with letters. Emails and phone calls won't get you anywhere, and Google is shit for that kind of research. But each F1 team will give you a massively different numbers(except perhaps for the wheels).

Nice Tristan, big thanks

Don't trust my figures too much though - you need more accurate (and trustworthy) data really!

From experience, I'd say pretty much everything on that list costs considerably more. Unless perhaps you're on Force India's budget.

Within the 'factors of ten' allowance I added? I don't think a chassis would cost £30m, so I'm okay

It will be fine, it doesnt have to be dead on. Just a general idea so i can set up my database.

@DevilDare
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... /F1_team_budget_split.svg

Rough idea of how it is.

Quote from Rocabiliz :

@DevilDare
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... /F1_team_budget_split.svg

Rough idea of how it is.

Oooooo, a pie chart. Thanks, will be useful

Quote from tristancliffe :

Within the 'factors of ten' allowance I added? I don't think a chassis would cost £30m, so I'm okay

Ah, didn't see that clause.

Quote from Rocabiliz :

@DevilDare
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi ... /F1_team_budget_split.svg

Rough idea of how it is.

I don't really agree with that at all. For a start, Renault have claimed that their driver wages constitute almost 20% of their budget (which you can choose to believe or not. And I highly doubt the engine costs make up 50% of an F1 budget, when you consider that many of the teams have budgets of hundreds of millions of pounds and may buy their engines from other teams.

That pie chart is like three years old. It's obsolete.

Yea likely, but still might help that guy

New Williams livery:

Nothing new, classic white/blue