http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7933565.stm
what a pile of bullshite, stupid youtube. Money crazed retards.
what a pile of bullshite, stupid youtube. Money crazed retards.
Youtube to stop UK watching official music vids
Aren't the PRS asking for more money than YouTube make in revenue? So it basically means that YouTube loose money every time a video is viewed, which is sucky-sucky. I think YouTube are in the right here really. Basically the PRS are trying to force an old business model onto a new medium. Their and our loss.
Was just going to post this.. you beat me Rob..
I think it's appaling, frankly. Thank god that people re-upload songs privately, and these won't be block.
Youtube/Google are richer than they let on.
I think it's appaling, frankly. Thank god that people re-upload songs privately, and these won't be block.
Youtube/Google are richer than they let on.
PRS are saying that they had no idea that YT would block all the videos, and that it was a complete surprise. Maybe YT forgot to tell them...
I think its a bit of both really. PRS are asking for more money, but not so much as it will affect YouTube in an extreme way.
Despite being as popular as it is, Youtube actually makes a relatively small profit. This is disappointing tbh, I often pop on YT to listen through a playlist of new songs I cba to download. That said it's just another site to go through the American VPN I use.
There will be about 15 videos left on youtube after the purge. 
what the hell is the point of this. Music is the main reason i ever visit youtube really.
i expect that youtube will be somewhat less popular because of this, that or people will use the foriegn proxy workaround.
i expect that youtube will be somewhat less popular because of this, that or people will use the foriegn proxy workaround.
Not surprised by this. I have always been confused by the PRS. You see artists claiming it's all 'for the music' and then they have the PRS making sure all workplaces have a music licence to play the f'in radio.
So the PRS get paid for the song on the radio, and then paid again if anyone wants to listen to it.
It's a business model bound to fail because eventually people will say "enough is enough". We aint payin any more to listen to sh1t music.
So the PRS get paid for the song on the radio, and then paid again if anyone wants to listen to it.
It's a business model bound to fail because eventually people will say "enough is enough". We aint payin any more to listen to sh1t music.
Die, greedy music industry, die. PRS thought they had leverage that it turns out they don't have over Youtube.
It kinda reminds me of when Sun accidentally won the Java courtcase against Microsoft and MS pulled Java from the XP default installation. Sun freaked.. and hurt badly.
I'm not fond of Youtube's recent policies regarding music but on reflection it seems they're giving the music industry enough rope to hang itself. Youtube has a large part to play in swaying public opinion about the big music corps. Just a little longer and they'll all die.. keep it up Gootube!
It kinda reminds me of when Sun accidentally won the Java courtcase against Microsoft and MS pulled Java from the XP default installation. Sun freaked.. and hurt badly.
I'm not fond of Youtube's recent policies regarding music but on reflection it seems they're giving the music industry enough rope to hang itself. Youtube has a large part to play in swaying public opinion about the big music corps. Just a little longer and they'll all die.. keep it up Gootube!
Needless to say, i am downloading everything i can think of off youtube before its gone forever. God bless the little known program called videoget! 
Well I read that the PRS are asking for more money-per-view than YouTube actually makes, so while YouTube/Google could afford to pay it (Google could buy the London Olympics ten times over with change), they have no reason to do so, as they are actually making more money by not just playing them. Well, that's what I heard...
PRS is classic lousy British business practice at its worst.. charging as much as it thinks the market will bear, rather than charging a fair price for a product.
Roger Daltry described Britain as "The Land Of No", referring to British investors and their lack of willingness to invest in longer-term business models. They always want instant gratification and short-term returns. PRS is as guilty of stifling progression in the British music industry as the Bible Belt was in stifling American advances in medical research during Bush's mob years.
Roger Daltry described Britain as "The Land Of No", referring to British investors and their lack of willingness to invest in longer-term business models. They always want instant gratification and short-term returns. PRS is as guilty of stifling progression in the British music industry as the Bible Belt was in stifling American advances in medical research during Bush's mob years.
The PRS is trying to claw back as much money as possible since paid music is dying out. The mp3 revolution is both the best and the worst thing to happen to music in ages.
It makes getting the songs you want easy, but it makes getting the songs you want for free easy too.
There's no money to be made from selling recorded music these days unless you're a massive global superstar who could release an album of goose farts and still sell millions of records - and there's only a handful of those in existance. So the PRS is heading down a slippery slope towards being out of business.
In the past they've done a good job at getting cash from TV and radio shows who used to not bother paying the artists or record companies, but these days they're struggling and this is their last ditch effort. Their previous step, charging businesses for playing the radio, was another dumb one which probably hurt the industry more than it helped anyone but themselves.
I have very mixed opinions about the whole thing since I'm both a performing musician and a consumer too. On one hand I'm all for trying to get cash out of people for my music, but on the other I want it to go out to as many people as possible. I love being a paradox
It makes getting the songs you want easy, but it makes getting the songs you want for free easy too.
There's no money to be made from selling recorded music these days unless you're a massive global superstar who could release an album of goose farts and still sell millions of records - and there's only a handful of those in existance. So the PRS is heading down a slippery slope towards being out of business.
In the past they've done a good job at getting cash from TV and radio shows who used to not bother paying the artists or record companies, but these days they're struggling and this is their last ditch effort. Their previous step, charging businesses for playing the radio, was another dumb one which probably hurt the industry more than it helped anyone but themselves.
I have very mixed opinions about the whole thing since I'm both a performing musician and a consumer too. On one hand I'm all for trying to get cash out of people for my music, but on the other I want it to go out to as many people as possible. I love being a paradox
Artists can still make money from live appearances, the tickets are bloody expensive enough at some venues.
There's never been so many oppurtunities. Finally the bands are regaining some control from the record companies who have had a monopoly on the scene for years.
The only people who have a problem with ther online revolution and the so called lack of 'money' to be made from music is the musicians too lazy to go out and do it themselves. They sit around, do some gigs, and hope one day a big suit will come and give ther a big load of cash.
Bands nowadays have to be much smarter, and actually re-think how thery approach it. Money can be made, but a smart business plan is VITAL if they are to do so. I recall warning my fellow students when I studied music several years ago that the time was up and they are going to have to re-think how they see success in the music industry. And even then it was clear what was happening I was laughed at. They still believed int he record company dream!
I put on several large music event in my local town, and people were willing to pay money to come and watch the bands in a comfortable environment. Money can still be made.
The market is changing, this is how the whole world works... time for bands and muso's to change with it and stop being so friggin' lazy expecting some suit to make their dreams come true!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro ... /click_online/7872316.stm pretty good indication of how people are changing their approach
This has historically always been where bands have made the bulk of the money that they pocket for themselves. Labels, traditionally through their networks of sub-companies (distribution, production, studio fees, promotional fees, management fees...), have filtered away all but a disproportionately small percentage of media revenue from the artists themselves.
The music industry hierarchy collectively has a pretty sinister history, and has long been associated with various forms of organized crime, mob behaviour, illicit dealings, fraudulent behaviour and even (as George Michael argued) effective artistic slave labour.
Ultimately, though, bands and artists have had to opt for bizarre and unreasonable first-time contracts for albums because without the labels, it's been impossible to get "known". You can't fill a stadium if you're a nobody, so you can't earn the big bucks unless you get with the programme. The music industry has operated as a cartel for all of living history, ensuring that it's been all but impossible to get a decent record deal. If they don't manage to get you for a lifetime, you stand a better chance of getting a decent cut of the pie when your contract comes up for renewal, but that can be many years down the road.
PRS isn't doing the artists they represent any favours by seeking excessive royalties from Gootube for band/artist exposure. On the contrary, they've done them a grave disservice.
I will wrong in saying this will encourage more people in the UK to torrent their music?
... but you know what?
I bet I STILL get bloody Rick-Rolled! :mad:
Back in the 60s and 70s record companies made a massive loss putting on tours. The venue hire, the crew costs, the lighting and catering and zillions of other parts that need paid for eat up all of the money made from tickets. However, the idea was that they'd make that back in album sales from the publicity and people remembering the spectacle of the shows when they played them. Piracy was restricted to physical media that degraded in quality as it was played, so it wasn't as hard to deal with.
These days albums are appearing on file sharing networks regularly before the paying public can actually get hold of them. Files are so small, connections are so fast, that it's so unbelievably easy to get pirated material and as such sales are diminishing. That's why there's not nearly as much cash to be made.
Merchandise and concerts are the way forward. That's why you're seeing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna start to appear on-stage for the first time in years. That's why you're seeing ticket prices rise. Few years ago you could get into a fairly small artist (like Thunder or Steve Vai) for about £12. Now you're talking nearly double that.
Now as an unsigned artist I have a bit of an advantage. When we record and release our album (later this year) it'll be small and independant. Nobody will know who we are. Costs to record will be fairly low, but 100% of our sales will be profit. We don't owe anyone anything. Of course that also means nobody knows who we are so sales will be small. We're not going to be able to give up our day jobs on the strength of sales at the concerts we play.
But a few months down the line maybe we'll have sold a few thousand albums. Maybe word will spread to people who don't go to our gigs but like our music. Maybe it'll extend outside of our friends of friends of friends network. They don't know us or care whether we spent a few grand to record and produce our work. They want the songs, they download the songs. Who makes money from that? Nobody. Their friends hear the songs and like the songs, they download the songs too, the way piracy goes.
So you have a potential audience of maybe a hundred thousand people or more, but have only actually sold a couple of thousand albums. Is that fair? It's easy to be cold towards bands who have been around for decades and live in mansions, but what about the new guys, the little guys? We don't benefit from the music we play. We might cover costs, but that's where it ends. That's why we need someone to watch out for us.
That said, to get back on-topic, videos are only done as promo material. You don't see nearly as many DVD videos of people are you did actual VHS so clearly it's a dying medium in terms of sales. Like promo singles. I believe that promo stuff should be free. You send it free to promoters so it should be free to the people you want to actually sell your stuff to. YouTube is just the new Top of the Pops or whatever other similar show you can think of. You can't put a price on that kind of thing.
These days albums are appearing on file sharing networks regularly before the paying public can actually get hold of them. Files are so small, connections are so fast, that it's so unbelievably easy to get pirated material and as such sales are diminishing. That's why there's not nearly as much cash to be made.
Merchandise and concerts are the way forward. That's why you're seeing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna start to appear on-stage for the first time in years. That's why you're seeing ticket prices rise. Few years ago you could get into a fairly small artist (like Thunder or Steve Vai) for about £12. Now you're talking nearly double that.
Now as an unsigned artist I have a bit of an advantage. When we record and release our album (later this year) it'll be small and independant. Nobody will know who we are. Costs to record will be fairly low, but 100% of our sales will be profit. We don't owe anyone anything. Of course that also means nobody knows who we are so sales will be small. We're not going to be able to give up our day jobs on the strength of sales at the concerts we play.
But a few months down the line maybe we'll have sold a few thousand albums. Maybe word will spread to people who don't go to our gigs but like our music. Maybe it'll extend outside of our friends of friends of friends network. They don't know us or care whether we spent a few grand to record and produce our work. They want the songs, they download the songs. Who makes money from that? Nobody. Their friends hear the songs and like the songs, they download the songs too, the way piracy goes.
So you have a potential audience of maybe a hundred thousand people or more, but have only actually sold a couple of thousand albums. Is that fair? It's easy to be cold towards bands who have been around for decades and live in mansions, but what about the new guys, the little guys? We don't benefit from the music we play. We might cover costs, but that's where it ends. That's why we need someone to watch out for us.
That said, to get back on-topic, videos are only done as promo material. You don't see nearly as many DVD videos of people are you did actual VHS so clearly it's a dying medium in terms of sales. Like promo singles. I believe that promo stuff should be free. You send it free to promoters so it should be free to the people you want to actually sell your stuff to. YouTube is just the new Top of the Pops or whatever other similar show you can think of. You can't put a price on that kind of thing.
I share you tube music videos with friends over MSN, it has led to sales.
Now that I will be unable to do this, and will have to tell my friends "Sorry, i'm in the UK You Tube blocked it" I will be loosing an enjoyable ocassional past time and likely be buying less albums as i'll hear less new artists (because yes although i've gone on record as saying I download music - I do still buy some).
I have very much enjoyed descovering new artists via You Tube, and sharing artists I enjoy with friends via sending You Tube links.
If that is to die, then who am I to stand in the way of progress *slaps face*.
I don't care about the money stuff or the business arrangements, I just want to share music with friends.
Now that I will be unable to do this, and will have to tell my friends "Sorry, i'm in the UK You Tube blocked it" I will be loosing an enjoyable ocassional past time and likely be buying less albums as i'll hear less new artists (because yes although i've gone on record as saying I download music - I do still buy some).
I have very much enjoyed descovering new artists via You Tube, and sharing artists I enjoy with friends via sending You Tube links.
If that is to die, then who am I to stand in the way of progress *slaps face*.
I don't care about the money stuff or the business arrangements, I just want to share music with friends.
That is the EXACT attitude that so many ill informed band have and use as an excuse, and it's also complete nonsense. If THOUSANDS of people start bootlegging your music you will find yourself in a very strong position.
95% of music online is pirated music...take the HINT. People aren't willing to pay for recorded music. That's a fact. So rather than seeing it as some negative (like most) you need to encorporate this FACT into a business model and take advantage of it.
You need to look at your product and see how you can improve it, and maybe, just maybe making big bucks in music may not be as possible as it once was because the record companies no longer have a monopoly of the main media outlets. if music is far more available then the money will be spread out more.
Money still can be earned but you have to be VERY smart like ANY business. I have my own ideas and concepts but i aint revealing them on a public forum.. that would be stupid
I think using the term "ill informed" is wrong. It's the truth. If "95% of online music is pirated" then it's a hard fact. The only way to stop people pirating music is to not record any and if you don't record any then you have no practical way of getting your product out to people beyind the very limited range a band can get to on it's own money.
Gigs and merchandise are all we have. People who know you will only go to see you a couple of times before saturation point. People who don't know you won't choose to go to see you without a good reason. You can't conjure a good reason out of thin air so you need to work on it, which is what the "circuit" is all about. It's not just "this is now Band 2.0" because it's not that easy. It's not just about turning it into something people want, like making a product that lasts longer or goes further or does more.
You can create an image, write more songs, try to sell some t-shirts to make people ask about you, but that's it. Record sales are out, but who outside of the band's list of friends knows about them? How can you practically expand that?
People will pick up a free record (we give CDs and DVDs away all the time) but how many of those actually listen to it or care what's on it? I'll take something that's free and decide later whether or not I actually want it. How many of our CDs get taken because they're free and then abandoned in somebody's drawer? How much money do we keep pouring into that drawer before we realise it's not accomplishing anything?
It's a saturated market and we're a small independant. We're a local coffee shop among Starbucks and Costa's. We might have the best coffee in the world, but we'll still shut down if nobody goes there.
All you can do is keep going and keep hoping that something somewhere is going to fall into place. If you can name one other way to go then I'm listening.
Gigs and merchandise are all we have. People who know you will only go to see you a couple of times before saturation point. People who don't know you won't choose to go to see you without a good reason. You can't conjure a good reason out of thin air so you need to work on it, which is what the "circuit" is all about. It's not just "this is now Band 2.0" because it's not that easy. It's not just about turning it into something people want, like making a product that lasts longer or goes further or does more.
You can create an image, write more songs, try to sell some t-shirts to make people ask about you, but that's it. Record sales are out, but who outside of the band's list of friends knows about them? How can you practically expand that?
People will pick up a free record (we give CDs and DVDs away all the time) but how many of those actually listen to it or care what's on it? I'll take something that's free and decide later whether or not I actually want it. How many of our CDs get taken because they're free and then abandoned in somebody's drawer? How much money do we keep pouring into that drawer before we realise it's not accomplishing anything?
It's a saturated market and we're a small independant. We're a local coffee shop among Starbucks and Costa's. We might have the best coffee in the world, but we'll still shut down if nobody goes there.
All you can do is keep going and keep hoping that something somewhere is going to fall into place. If you can name one other way to go then I'm listening.
Well you have it slightly backwards. A band giving away free CD's is different to a band where demand is so high that people bootleg their material. Actually if I recall bootlegging is something pearl jam actively encouraged in their early years until the record company clamped down on them. If your in SUCH demand that people are bootlegging your songs then this imo is a huge positive and represents a market that could be exploited without a record company.
I can't give you specific advice because I would have to charge you
To a certain degree I have to agree with you. If you have high demand then that's a good thing, but only in terms of having a fanbase to perform to. If that fanbase is still getting their albums for free then you're still not gaining anything from it
I'm still trying to pimp band merchandise. The problem is with that we need to buy it on spec and then hope people will take it off our hands, and it don't come cheap.
I'm still trying to pimp band merchandise. The problem is with that we need to buy it on spec and then hope people will take it off our hands, and it don't come cheap.
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Youtube to stop UK watching official music vids
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