What the....?

I thought Prodrive was on a good spot to enter F1 in form of Aston Martin

Quote from DevilDare :

What the....?

I thought Prodrive was on a good spot to enter F1 in form of Aston Martin

Yeh i thought that, on paper im pretty sure they have the best chance of being suscessful..

maybe prodrive and Dave Richards are paying the price for being a touch critical of the FIA over how the WRC is run and the media rights

To be honest, I'd rather see true racing teams on the grid than overspending car manufacturers.

Great news about Manor Motorsport will be nice to see the white rose flying. Raikkonen and Hamilton have been through the ranks.

Bit surprised that a bloke that used to own a GP2 outfit got picked over Prodrive.

Prodrive were probably the most crediable team that submitted an entry apart from USF1

No F1 as we used to know next year? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76244

A £40m budget cap will only widen the gap between the richest and poorest teams. A richer team will only find smart ways to spend their extra cash which will give them the advantage. Drivers wages will go through the roof etc...

We will see how unified they are when push comes to shove, I rekon the teams that don't have unlimited budgets will jump ship and leave FOTA.

I reckon this budget cap crap will go up, but only after the seasons end, or after a big name team walks away if they so choose to. Just to shit them, i wouldnt put it past the FIA.

Quote from Intrepid :

A £40m budget cap will only widen the gap between the richest and poorest teams. A richer team will only find smart ways to spend their extra cash which will give them the advantage. Drivers wages will go through the roof etc...

The no driver wages and no engine cap is only for 2010, from 2011 both of those will be subject to the budget cap. Or at least that is how I understood it.

what i find interesting is how on earth they came up with this figure and expect teams to be able to benefit from the proposed breaks on rules when you have force india saying it will amount to a 33% cut in their expenditure and williams saying they will have to lay off 350 workers to meet the target. williams and force india aren't big teams by todays standards so what chances are there of the new teams running to a similar standard of engeneering to what we currently see ? or are we going to se teams trying to save money and then pullint out of races because of simple parts breakages / shortages etc.

also cosworth seem to be making a big point of stating that they haven't confirmed they will be in F1 next year despite the new entrants naming them as engine supplier

Quote from TagForce :

The no driver wages and no engine cap is only for 2010, from 2011 both of those will be subject to the budget cap. Or at least that is how I understood it.

Would be impossible to regulate. Also if this was true then the drivers would soon start aiming somewhere else. The ONLY reason F1 is the goal for many drivers is the fact it offers a wage. The whole arse would fall out of F1 if they capped wages for drivers

Well, F1 should be the top of motorsport, the developing of new technologies and that stuff... I think 2009 is the last year of that stuff, the last year of F1 as we see it now

Quote from Intrepid :

Would be impossible to regulate. Also if this was true then the drivers would soon start aiming somewhere else. The ONLY reason F1 is the goal for many drivers is the fact it offers a wage. The whole arse would fall out of F1 if they capped wages for drivers

You're right... That part of the rules has been dropped. In fact, the engines, the drivers, and one extra teammember are now free from the costcap.

Also, the latest proposition to the FOTA teams (which they declined) was that 2010 would see a 100 million euro cap, instead of a 45 million euro cap.

Quote from TagForce :

You're right... That part of the rules has been dropped. In fact, the engines, the drivers, and one extra teammember are now free from the costcap.

Also, the latest proposition to the FOTA teams (which they declined) was that 2010 would see a 100 million euro cap, instead of a 45 million euro cap.

If they declined that, then they are fools. Renault won 2 world championships with a budget close to 100 million euros.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

We will see how unified they are when push comes to shove, I rekon the teams that don't have unlimited budgets will jump ship and leave FOTA.

So basically all of them, apart from Brawn.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

If they declined that, then they are fools. Renault won 2 world championships with a budget close to 100 million euros.

They're not fools, they're just unreliable and want an easy out.
The problem is that the whole budget cap deal could've easily been avoided over half a year ago. The FIA wanted to secure F1 until the end of the proposed Concorde Agreement (31st december 2012), and asked the manufacturers including Fiat for a commitment agreement to stay in F1 until that time after Honda left. If they were positive about committing to F1 until that time, the FIA and FOTA would discuss and sign a new Concorde Agreement that would further strengthen the championship, and the governance of the championship in a way that would please both the FIA and the FOTA.

Repeated requests by the FIA, and Max Mosley to Luca di Montezemolo to secure this commitment from the manufacturers, and repeated promises by Luca di Montezemolo to obtain such commitments have resulted in nothing, not even the parent company of Ferrari (Luca's very own Fiat) seemed to be interested in committing to F1, so the FIA saw no other option than to secure the future of the sports in other ways. The most viable one being a costcap to secure the ability for other teams to join the championship. And then the proverbial sh*t hit the fan.

By this time I firmly believe that, given the latest information released by the FIA, including but not limited to private letters between the lawyer of Ferrari and the Secretary General of the FIA, no matter what happens, no manufacturers want to take part in a 2010 F1 season unless they completely control the series (hence Renaults nice request to be given 100% of the TV income, instead of just 50%). They do not want to commit themselves to F1, and do not want to allow other teams to fill their positions, and use this issue to effectively destroy F1, directing blame at the FIA.

Ferrari will be on the entry list this friday, but I suspect them to not be on the grid. I suspect none of the factory teams to be on the grid in 2010, and that one of the non-factory teams will be absent (brawnGP). I do not believe a spin-off series created by FOTA will be viable, and if there is an intention of starting one, both the FIA and FOM under Bernie Ecclestone will start legal action to postpone this series for at least one year, and maybe even until the current Concorde Agreement with Ferrari ends (in 2013). Until such time Ferrari is bound, contractually, to not run in non-FIA sanctioned classes, regardless of their commitment to F1, Signed per 2005, as part of the extention of the Concord Agreement which includes clauses that gives Ferrari certain rights within F1 as well as obligations. Ferrari's lawyer has at least confirmed that Ferrari has special rights per that agreement, so that would mean they also have obligations per that agreement.

Needless to say that any FOTA series will not be sanctioned by FIA, and would need to be run under their own or some non-FIA directed governance.

The FOTA's demands kept on changing every time the FIA would give them a compromise. At this point it is hopeless, unless the FOTA will back down and remove their conditions from their entry lists. I think by this friday, F1 will have changed drastically, and we need to start learning a lot of new names.

Quote from TagForce :

They're not fools, they're just unreliable and want an easy out.
The problem is that the whole budget cap deal could've easily been avoided over half a year ago. The FIA wanted to secure F1 until the end of the proposed Concorde Agreement (31st december 2012), and asked the manufacturers including Fiat for a commitment agreement to stay in F1 until that time after Honda left. If they were positive about committing to F1 until that time, the FIA and FOTA would discuss and sign a new Concorde Agreement that would further strengthen the championship, and the governance of the championship in a way that would please both the FIA and the FOTA.

Repeated requests by the FIA, and Max Mosley to Luca di Montezemolo to secure this commitment from the manufacturers, and repeated promises by Luca di Montezemolo to obtain such commitments have resulted in nothing, not even the parent company of Ferrari (Luca's very own Fiat) seemed to be interested in committing to F1, so the FIA saw no other option than to secure the future of the sports in other ways. The most viable one being a costcap to secure the ability for other teams to join the championship. And then the proverbial sh*t hit the fan.

By this time I firmly believe that, given the latest information released by the FIA, including but not limited to private letters between the lawyer of Ferrari and the Secretary General of the FIA, no matter what happens, no manufacturers want to take part in a 2010 F1 season unless they completely control the series (hence Renaults nice request to be given 100% of the TV income, instead of just 50%). They do not want to commit themselves to F1, and do not want to allow other teams to fill their positions, and use this issue to effectively destroy F1, directing blame at the FIA.

Ferrari will be on the entry list this friday, but I suspect them to not be on the grid. I suspect none of the factory teams to be on the grid in 2010, and that one of the non-factory teams will be absent (brawnGP). I do not believe a spin-off series created by FOTA will be viable, and if there is an intention of starting one, both the FIA and FOM under Bernie Ecclestone will start legal action to postpone this series for at least one year, and maybe even until the current Concorde Agreement with Ferrari ends (in 2013). Until such time Ferrari is bound, contractually, to not run in non-FIA sanctioned classes, regardless of their commitment to F1, Signed per 2005, as part of the extention of the Concord Agreement which includes clauses that gives Ferrari certain rights within F1 as well as obligations. Ferrari's lawyer has at least confirmed that Ferrari has special rights per that agreement, so that would mean they also have obligations per that agreement.

Needless to say that any FOTA series will not be sanctioned by FIA, and would need to be run under their own or some non-FIA directed governance.

The FOTA's demands kept on changing every time the FIA would give them a compromise. At this point it is hopeless, unless the FOTA will back down and remove their conditions from their entry lists. I think by this friday, F1 will have changed drastically, and we need to start learning a lot of new names.

They only get about 35% of the Tv income Bernie gets about 75% thats why they don't agree, they did not say 100% at all they said they want a substantial increase because afterall they are the ones that provide the entertainament.

Reducing such a huge teams spenditure to just 45 mil euro would mean mass lay offs and huge closers, plus the catagory loses its prestige at the same time.

Sure we might be in a ression but from 200 milion to 45 is soo much of a drop to be capped, even williams where using double the money in the early 90s.

Quote from Mustafur :

They only get about 35% of the Tv income Bernie gets about 75% thats why they don't agree, they did not say 100% at all they said they want a substantial increase because afterall they are the ones that provide the entertainament.

Reducing such a huge teams spenditure to just 45 mil euro would mean mass lay offs and huge closers, plus the catagory loses its prestige at the same time.

Sure we might be in a ression but from 200 milion to 45 is soo much of a drop to be capped, even williams where using double the money in the early 90s.

Which is why the FIA offered a 100 million cap, which the FOTA declined.
And Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Renault did state that the teams should be given 100% of the TV revenues. But without any guarantees the teams will stay until a new Concorde Agreement has been signed the FIA has no choice but to impose a budget cap. Otherwise the sport would be in danger.

Quote from TagForce :

Which is why the FIA offered a 100 million cap, which the FOTA declined.
And Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Renault did state that the teams should be given 100% of the TV revenues. But without any guarantees the teams will stay until a new Concorde Agreement has been signed the FIA has no choice but to impose a budget cap. Otherwise the sport would be in danger.

link?

Doesn't really matter now it seems more then likely everything will go through now, the F1 teams have agreed with the 100 mil cap in principal but they want independent accountants, not FIA ones.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/he ... detail/090617124225.shtml

Lets just hope Max doesn't get a big head.

surely there are ways around the budget cap?

whats the difference if say ferrari setup a new company under a new name. build everything in that company then sell it to the f1 team for say £1.

the accounts book will look like they brought the product for 1 pound.. but in reality they paid for it in the other company whose accounts have nothing to do with f1.

is this how they would work around the cap?

I think the plan is for the FIA accountants to then look into the accounts of the supplier (but presumably only the ones that seem 'dodgy', otherwise they'd eventually have to look at an infinite amount of data) to see if it's been costed properly, and so on and so on.