Round 4 - post race discussion thread
(21 posts, closed, started )
Round 4 - post race discussion thread
hahhahahahaha..
it's ALWAYS entertaining to check replays after Niall files a report on someone........
it's ALWAYS entertaining to check replays after Niall files a report on someone........
res ipsa loquitur....
i'm a bit confused.
why there is a report system for this league is beyond all sensible knowledge to begin with....but i would like to file an appeal.
StableX was docked 10 points for spinning me (i'm assuming lap 4 of race 1). this was purely a racing incident, as i had lifted off the throttle. if a person is going to get penalized for bumping someone(in a Bump and Jump League mind you), because of a variance in speed, then the penalties are going to start compounding beyond control. I don't see any benefit for penalizing one driver for an instance perpetrated by so many.
There is a huge problem with drivers in the league refusing to lift the throttle when someone spins in front of them. Take Lap 1 of Race1 for instance, where #12 clipped the wall, was inadvertentally bumped by #69, sending him into me, where i was on the outside. ok a racing incident. fair enough.
Fast forward a mere 3 seconds and you will see 4 cars involved in this incident, and only two sets of brake lights, mine and the #04. #60 showed no intent of braking and the #12 stayed full throttle, making contact as he went by.
where is the penalty for that? and that is just turn 1 of race 1......
how about race 2? #21 makes the same or worse contact with several cars in the first 2 laps alone, sending me into the barrier. and then denying any contact after i questioned him post-race...
the reported incident by #21 on #43 on Lap 4 of Race 2 was clearly his own fault, as he went wide off the racing line into the oncoming lane, leaving the inside wide open, then refusing to give way to #43 which clearly had full control of his track position.
the #60/ #43 incident was absolutely due to #60 making an aggressive pass, realizing he was not going to make the kink, then turning left into the #43, causing loss of control. timestamp 10:13.54, look at steering wheel positions relative to vehicle positions,. i see #60 realizing he's about to run out of talent and causing an avoidable incident.
If you're going to dock points and ban people from future events, you need to THOROUGHLY analyze each incident.
there's no need to turn this into a report-fest, but if you're going to impose a penalty for a specific manuever, it should be imposed on EVERYONE that is guilty of it. just quickly browsing through the replays there are innumerable accounts of cars getting pushed from behind, with or without intent, and no penalty.
This is NOT MoE, GTAL, iTCC, or any other big name league where there is zero tolerance for contact. Anyone that has experience in this type of racing knows for damn sure what the deal is. And if you don't get it, then it's not for you.
why there is a report system for this league is beyond all sensible knowledge to begin with....but i would like to file an appeal.
StableX was docked 10 points for spinning me (i'm assuming lap 4 of race 1). this was purely a racing incident, as i had lifted off the throttle. if a person is going to get penalized for bumping someone(in a Bump and Jump League mind you), because of a variance in speed, then the penalties are going to start compounding beyond control. I don't see any benefit for penalizing one driver for an instance perpetrated by so many.
There is a huge problem with drivers in the league refusing to lift the throttle when someone spins in front of them. Take Lap 1 of Race1 for instance, where #12 clipped the wall, was inadvertentally bumped by #69, sending him into me, where i was on the outside. ok a racing incident. fair enough.
Fast forward a mere 3 seconds and you will see 4 cars involved in this incident, and only two sets of brake lights, mine and the #04. #60 showed no intent of braking and the #12 stayed full throttle, making contact as he went by.
where is the penalty for that? and that is just turn 1 of race 1......
how about race 2? #21 makes the same or worse contact with several cars in the first 2 laps alone, sending me into the barrier. and then denying any contact after i questioned him post-race...
the reported incident by #21 on #43 on Lap 4 of Race 2 was clearly his own fault, as he went wide off the racing line into the oncoming lane, leaving the inside wide open, then refusing to give way to #43 which clearly had full control of his track position.
the #60/ #43 incident was absolutely due to #60 making an aggressive pass, realizing he was not going to make the kink, then turning left into the #43, causing loss of control. timestamp 10:13.54, look at steering wheel positions relative to vehicle positions,. i see #60 realizing he's about to run out of talent and causing an avoidable incident.
If you're going to dock points and ban people from future events, you need to THOROUGHLY analyze each incident.
there's no need to turn this into a report-fest, but if you're going to impose a penalty for a specific manuever, it should be imposed on EVERYONE that is guilty of it. just quickly browsing through the replays there are innumerable accounts of cars getting pushed from behind, with or without intent, and no penalty.
This is NOT MoE, GTAL, iTCC, or any other big name league where there is zero tolerance for contact. Anyone that has experience in this type of racing knows for damn sure what the deal is. And if you don't get it, then it's not for you.
Tell me how that can be an agressive pass? I was in front of him before the corner, and had much more speed than him. Then, he clipps my rear, which makes me go straight into the barrier, and he just continue to push me. Haven you even watched it?
Yann, you did a good job in my eyes, dont worry.
I agree with you Kevin, I realized that some people here want to win at all costs and don't care about others. Guys do NOT fear push that f***in brake pedal at an incident, if not maybe you make sbody's day bad. So please, care a bit more about others.
p.s.:Kevin, omg your signature
p.s.:Kevin, omg your signature
Received the appeal. These incidents will be investigated a second time, and we will release our final conclusions in the next 48 hours.
This is the way the reports system is. As stated on the rules, we are only investigating from our own initiative special kind of offences, like chatting, having the wrong skin on, or, trying to recover from the other side of the fences. "12.3 The administrating team reserves the right to investigate incidents after the race from their own initiative" was only put there to let us the right to investigate people in case of very specific offenses, and the penalties we gave after round 3 for the abusive language we had on the server before and during the event is a good example of the application of this rule.
To say it in another way : if you feel that someone else has been unfair with you, you have to raise a report. We don't investigate people randomly. And saying that you/your mate/X shouldn't deserve a penalty because Y did the same offence is not a valid excuse. If you have something against Y, report him, but moaning about his acts won't do anything. I do not like this system too, tbh, but we have to deal with it until the end of the season.
To stop the confusion, also note that these reports kinda "coming from nowhere" were sent via PM.
Taken from raceauthority.com : "Contact
In Bump 'n' Jump we tolerate light contact, 'nerfing' and 'light brushes'. Crashing another car into a barrier or hard ramming them is not acceptable." Course it is hard to define what should be allowed and what shouldn't be, but we do think that because of the format of the tracks, everyone has to be at least as careful as if they were racing on a permanent course, and not hit everyone around him "just because its BnJ". Contacts are allowed yes, but not everything. A small rallycross style tap is allowed, but spinning another competitor isn't. Also, don't forget that 5 points of penalty isn't so much. For example, finishing a race in last position during round 3 or 4 would have gave you something between 7 and 20 points.
To finish, I'd just like to say that this is the first BnJ league ever made, so please don't under-estimate the difficulty of our task. We are aware that we're making mistakes sometimes, but it is often damn hard to decide for an appropriated sanction.
@ tommy; yes I did watch, several times. hence the timestamp references. maybe you should actually watch closely, and you will see you initiated the contact at 10:13.54 by turning left into StableX , upsetting his car causing him to correct, and at the same time putting you in a line that would not allow you to navigate the turn at the speed you were travelling. so when you slowed, his momentum and attempt to countersteer out of a slide you put him caused the contact. the undeniable proof is shown by you turning left into him. simply put, you have no situational awareness and failed to see you cut into him. it was an aggressive pass because you couldn't pull it off without making contact. @ Yann, I under stand your dilemma. maybe incidents like these need a bit more scrutiny.
I dont turn left as you state. Im turning right, straight and then right again, and its called counter-steering, due to his hit in my rear end. I would have managed that corner perfectly, if he hadnt cut my end.
It wasnt a dangerous pass. The pass was made on the straight. I was the leading car into the corner. He was gonna turn in right behind me, but turned in too soon and hit my rear end.
It wasnt a dangerous pass. The pass was made on the straight. I was the leading car into the corner. He was gonna turn in right behind me, but turned in too soon and hit my rear end.
10:13.54.
hmm... strange day it was for me... didn't go well at all...
Qualifying was for me:"Yes Yes Yes, NO!!! I spun!"
first race was a "yuppee I feel good and the car too, but Oh no I did a mistake and wtf I'm out"
second race was:
"Please Please let poor 55 survive this start, please please..... d'oh!!!"
and race three:
"Yupee, I survived the start... c'mon, I feel good, car feels good... c'mon!!! shit, I'm off road, between quelque barrieres..."
Qualifying was for me:"Yes Yes Yes, NO!!! I spun!"
first race was a "yuppee I feel good and the car too, but Oh no I did a mistake and wtf I'm out"
second race was:
"Please Please let poor 55 survive this start, please please..... d'oh!!!"
and race three:
"Yupee, I survived the start... c'mon, I feel good, car feels good... c'mon!!! shit, I'm off road, between quelque barrieres..."
I had a look at that replay, specific around the 10:13 time stamp. Fitsly tommy you made Stablex push into by too late breaking. Due to that Stablex went into the left fence which bounched him back on the straight were you already were half in front of him due to speed los of STablex. Becus he bounched back he hitted you at you rear which pushed you into the barrier.
Nothing harmfull done all due to racing I believe. Both were wrong in mine opion.
Nothing harmfull done all due to racing I believe. Both were wrong in mine opion.
He didnt even hit the fence... He had A LOT of room on his inside, which he didnt use. He instead tired to drive straight.
He had lots of space on his inside trough that corner. Just take a look:
So dont even try to say that I pushed him into that fence.
He also hit me several times before this. He pushed me off wide, and then passed me the lap before. But that was such as small hit, so thats not really a big deal.
well i see it is almost pointless to argue with you, as you only wish to believe your opinion, instead of the facts,
but, the fact is:
1) you were making the pass, so it is your responsibility to do it without making contact.
2) you DID turn left into him(after denying turning left at all), when in fact you have twice as much much room to give as he did.
3)you are failing to remember to crap crash physics in LFS, and the fact they amplify any minor contact to the point that a correction is almost always necessary. had you made a CLEAN pass, the initial contact made by you would not have caused him to be off line, ending up on your bumper.
http://i634.photobucket.com/al ... eway33/lfs_00000010-1.jpg
that looks alot like turning left to me, and could be assumed that it was intentional. and he ws not trying to drive straight as you stated. if you look at his wheel position and that same instance you will see he too was turning left.
the simple truth is this is a league where contact is expected, executed, and in a small way accepted.
you said yourself you had no experience on this layout, so you do not know what you can and cannot get away with regarding corner speed and entry angles.
if you can't accept that you made the initial contact, then noone can help you.
but, the fact is:
1) you were making the pass, so it is your responsibility to do it without making contact.
2) you DID turn left into him(after denying turning left at all), when in fact you have twice as much much room to give as he did.
3)you are failing to remember to crap crash physics in LFS, and the fact they amplify any minor contact to the point that a correction is almost always necessary. had you made a CLEAN pass, the initial contact made by you would not have caused him to be off line, ending up on your bumper.
http://i634.photobucket.com/al ... eway33/lfs_00000010-1.jpg
that looks alot like turning left to me, and could be assumed that it was intentional. and he ws not trying to drive straight as you stated. if you look at his wheel position and that same instance you will see he too was turning left.
the simple truth is this is a league where contact is expected, executed, and in a small way accepted.
you said yourself you had no experience on this layout, so you do not know what you can and cannot get away with regarding corner speed and entry angles.
if you can't accept that you made the initial contact, then noone can help you.
I turned left out of the pic, yes, indeed.... its a corner there.... ofc I turn left! And I did a clean pass... he was BEHIND ME into the corner, and pushed me off, into the barrier. 
This was race 2, so of course I knew the layout. I learned it in qualy, and in the front-row contest, and of course in race 1. How long do you think it takes to learn a 50 sec layout? 1-5 laps
The fact is, I made the pass, he cut my rear end and continued to push it into the barrier.
This was race 2, so of course I knew the layout. I learned it in qualy, and in the front-row contest, and of course in race 1. How long do you think it takes to learn a 50 sec layout? 1-5 laps
The fact is, I made the pass, he cut my rear end and continued to push it into the barrier.
so your definition of a clean pass is driving up the side of them?
ok, i know your type.
nothing else needs to be said.
see you next tuesday!!!
ok, i know your type.
nothing else needs to be said.
see you next tuesday!!!
facepalm...
You clearly cant have watched the replay. Please do so.
Sick of arguing about something as stupid as this with a guy who cant accept a penalty.
You clearly cant have watched the replay. Please do so.
Sick of arguing about something as stupid as this with a guy who cant accept a penalty.
you seem to be missing the fact that it was your little tap and deliberate clip left earlier on that pushed you right, which caused the whole thing. You seem to change your story little bits every time.
not really. That "hit" as you call it had no meaning for the crash. Anyway, Im outta here.
best you do go before you dig a bigger hole showing you can't look at facts from a replay!
Thread closed, as everything was said basically.
This thread is closed
Round 4 - post race discussion thread
(21 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG