Quote from Dac :

Scawen and co have developed a very good product with a large user base, so it's only natural that they want it too continue. It's like building a very good car and then deciding not making spare parts and accessories for it.

The problem we have is that we know there is enough money in LFS for it too become a lot more, but the developers refusal to employ more coders is always going to hinder progress and make it second best. Without updates LFS will go downhill because the competitors are competing, and the majority wont stick around to play a dinosaur like they will the bigger sims.

Well put. The attitude of those that say "well you bought the game and you shouldn't expect updates..." is crazy. There are a large number of people begging for the game to be improved, many people offering spare time, experience, even MONEY!. Yet it is resisted for whatever reason. I don't care for the detail, but the facts are plain. People love LFS, they want more and waiting well over a year for a big release is damaging the community. Sure you can get into the detail of how the developers want to play the game... but the fact remains. Demand is there and it's not being met either with adequate communication nor product updates. Of course if the developers of the product truly don't care then it begs the questions why do this in the first place? They must have a desire to be successful and that can only be achieved with reasonable timing and good communication.

I used to work for Eidos and I hated the attitude of the big games companies. I once had an interview for Codemasters, and didn't like their way of working at all. So I totally understand the desire to not have the traditional corporate baggage. BUT you can't just develop something that people really like need and then not communicate with them effectively. A balance must be achieved and it's obvious it's not quite there yet.

It is testament to how good the game is. I can't imagine any other game with such old graphics and slow development ever actually lasting this long. I sometimes feel like i'm still playing Duke Nukem when I know that I could be playing Call of Duty!

By the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMwKPmsbWE
So let it come out early I want to play before world disappears ..

Quote from Kristi :

By the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMwKPmsbWE
So let it come out early I want to play before world disappears ..

Ahhh, that's still funny as ****!

Good old one

Either way, a little update on how things are going each 3-4'th month wouldn't hurt IMO.

Yea lil updates every now and again would be nice. Even just seeing a post from one of the devs make you feel abit uplifted.

Off topic: really funny vid kristi.

edit: LOL 2 and a half pages of pointless arguing in one day.

But maybe they have nothing to tell us . That's why we didn't get the reports...No offence, but LFS is on way to die, disappear, close the doors. I know that there is 9xx combos, but i don't like to play alone. That's why i've bought the game. To play online with other peoples. And what I see now, is that we have 4-5 serious race servers, where U can play and u can have fun, and about 6-7 cruise servers, where U can find some peoples cruising around...Hmmm, that's not enought imo. Maybe something will change and peoples will start to come back, and new peoples will appears, but time is running, the game is becoming more and more boring, or empty, or...find you the ideal word.

Sorry for my bad english, i hope you can understand, what i'm talking about, and once again, no offence. just an opinion
Best regards
Sanchez

Quote from ASR Sanchez :

Maybe something will change and peoples will start to come back, and new peoples will appears, but time is running, the game is becoming more and more boring, or empty, or...find you the ideal word.

Of course, updates! I'm pretty sure the player count will go up once the Scirocco & other new stuff is released


But I agree with everyone in this thread, a little report every month or two will be great.

Quote from jrd.racer :

edit: LOL 2 and a half pages of pointless arguing in one day.

Which is well under the normal number

Quote from The Very End :

Good old one

Either way, a little update on how things are going each 3-4'th month wouldn't hurt IMO.

Indeed, I would be satisfied with even a diagramme showing how much % has the completed FULLY and how much is left. I wouldnt be surprised if done was around 20 and not yet done 80.... I'm about to get an xbox and play Forza 3, because its a more fun game. Im sure its not as realistic and accurate physics, but what you need is having fun. Says me who plays LFS since 2002, as you had fun with a fully realistic games back in those days. Now what makes a game fun, is the community and the content. LFS has community but doesnt have enough content, and it brings down the community even which is not really cool does it? Compare Forza 3 with LFS, and you get a much more fun game in Forza, as it has the same kind of community, well slightly weaker as nothing can über the things I have felt over years in LFS, of course you dont get the physics, but you get the 400 cars and hell a lot tracks with tuning options and good brands, overall you get a much better game in my eyes. A game on PC either consoles is to make people relaxed, if you want to get 100% accurately simulation, go and drive your car around the town. I think people like to just relax and have fun in front of their monitors, and not having useless Chinese and those East Asian languages on, which he pretty much doesnt understand. If there was 5-10 more cars and 3-7 tracks it would be 150% more fun I promise.

Well this thread is being allowed to run it's course so I guess that's something, and we'd be foolish to believe the developers aren't aware of this arguing.

They are aware of it, but I guess they won't reply before thinking out a good reply. If they just answers vague people will go apeshit and spam the forum with whining and crap, and if they post a juicy post people will go apeshit too because then realize they have to wait 2 years for it

I just noticed the alpha tag is gone by someone above mentioning that so... why did they do this? What exactly means alpha and beta state to them?

Quote from lukelfs :

iirc, S3 is coming out starting with Rockingham and the VWS and a Unknown car , I dont see why people should be moaning, If they dont like it then go play the game or leave, or shuttt uppp :P

VWS is s2 content, S3 will have Rockingham and a new car.

Quote from kimd41 :

Of course, updates! I'm pretty sure the player count will go up once the Scirocco & other new stuff is released

People will be tired of the VWS pretty quickly i think and i estimate about a month before people start spamming for updates again.

Quote from kimd41 :

But I agree with everyone in this thread, a little report every month or two will be great.

Yeah a report would be nice but it really is best to leave it as it is. Everytime they do an update there is people moaning about it taking longer, people that are unable to understand what they are saying... so it cant be inspiring for them to do that since it doesnt really help.

Just imagine, last time they did announce anything nothing happened, it took less that a month, i actually think new threads started up the very next day or so...

Quote from 5tag :

I just noticed the alpha tag is gone by someone above mentioning that so... why did they do this? What exactly means alpha and beta state to them?

Scawen explained the reasoning behind this some time ago(at the end of the post):
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1268109#post1268109

Scawen learned LONG ago that if he posted dev updates regularly, then the whining bitches would pick up on every detail complaining, whining and hating.
Even worse, any little item he mentioned in an update that didn't make it to the release or was changed in some way would be blown out of proportion and complained bitterly about endlessly here on the forum by the same whining complaining idiots.
For a while he tried to explain the reasoning behind his decisions expecting an adult and respectful response from the community - no chance of that here though, just a frenzy of negativity.

As a result, what we get these days is an announcement when there is something to announce. Not an update every month, an update when there is something finished.
Occasionally there are mistakes - an announcement gets made prematurely. When that happens, the idiot whiners go into overdrive - as with the Scirocco - What this does is to re-enforce the current silent development approach.

If it wasn't for all the moronic whining tw*ts, there might still be a more open dev process like there was back in the early days of LFS


Reading the last few pages, what surprises me the most is how many people there are that joined years ago, yet still don't get it.

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :

Scawen explained the reasoning behind this some time ago(at the end of the post):
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1268109#post1268109

Thank you! I'm glad to hear that because if they sticked to the main stream development style that would have meant there is no more content (other than the announced) to come.

Quote from col :

Scawen learned LONG ago that if he posted dev updates regularly, then the whining bitches would pick up on every detail complaining, whining and hating.
Even worse, any little item he mentioned in an update that didn't make it to the release or was changed in some way would be blown out of proportion and complained bitterly about endlessly here on the forum by the same whining complaining idiots.
For a while he tried to explain the reasoning behind his decisions expecting an adult and respectful response from the community - no chance of that here though, just a frenzy of negativity.

As a result, what we get these days is an announcement when there is something to announce. Not an update every month, an update when there is something finished.
Occasionally there are mistakes - an announcement gets made prematurely. When that happens, the idiot whiners go into overdrive - as with the Scirocco - What this does is to re-enforce the current silent development approach.

If it wasn't for all the moronic whining tw*ts, there might still be a more open dev process like there was back in the early days of LFS


Reading the last few pages, what surprises me the most is how many people there are that joined years ago, yet still don't get it.

Question the development is not a crime, and if anything - it should be welcommed by the devs. Why - becayse negative constructive critism will help equally as much as positive. Calling us who question the development "bitches" really sounds.. silly

We are well aware, aswell as the devs, that anoncing something will lead to various results, but I don't think expecting a freakin' update each year is to push it. Now it's been since 2008 about the car, and I know the physics and such that are updated with it demands more time, but I ask again - couldn't they have managed that on one year?

Ok, say not, well fine. But how much longer will it take to release S3 then? 1 and maybe half year to release one car, I doubt we will be seeing S3 before 2015-2016 with the rate now.

Also, where is the barrier bug fix? If they work so hard making all these language updates, light indicators updates and such it makes me wonder - do they actually have the knowlege to contiue developing LFS? It seems to me (by wild guessing) that the desvs rather do the easy stuff now, adding languages and some nifty codes here and there, but to actually do things like adding new stuff which hasn't been given on 5 years seems to be asking for too much.

Sure, call me a whining bitch, if I am allowed to call you a trolling fanboy.

Quote from The Very End :

Also, where is the barrier bug fix?

Fixing the barrier bug affects the core physics, the tyre improvements do so(cost a lot of time both).

I drive 20-30k km a year in LFS, but the "barrier bug" causes trouble approx. once a year - the new tyre physics would cause a smile on my face all the time I drive.

So - use the steering wheel then you see a barrier.

Quote :

If they work so hard making all these language updates, light indicators updates and such it makes me wonder - do they actually have the knowlege to contiue developing LFS?
It seems to me (by wild guessing) that the desvs rather do the easy stuff now, adding languages and some nifty codes here and there

You get it wrong. The devs do the really hard stuff (no only software development is hard there, but the physics are really difficult, You would not imagine), and during that, some minor things can be released, like the indicators. Whinig about languages - pointless. Imagine that LFS would speak russian - an english translation release would make a lot of pepole happy. Now go to China, and count how many pepole are living there.

Quote :

Sure, call me a whining bitch, if I am allowed to call you a trolling fanboy.

pointless

Quote from The Very End :

(...) It seems to me (by wild guessing) that the desvs rather do the easy stuff now, adding languages and some nifty codes here and there (...)

Let's not forget the steering wheel gauge that now has anti-aliasing!!!

Quote from The Very End :

Ok, say not, well fine. But how much longer will it take to release S3 then? 1 and maybe half year to release one car, I doubt we will be seeing S3 before 2015-2016 with the rate now.

Sure, call me a whining bitch, if I am allowed to call you a trolling fanboy.

You are taking for granted that s3 hasnt been started yet, im pretty sure s3 has been started on already since well over a year back, maybe even back in 08...

They already mentioned the word s3 in the same line as a "new car" and "rockingham" for them to even say that means they probably started working on it.

And yes we all know your a whining bitch but we love you anyway! :lovies3d:

Ok, I agree, I am a whining bitch, but as long as you love me it's ok

It's also true, those things I refering to as easy, simple and that, is of course pure speculation, so I agree on those parts, sorry.

But let's put it that way, why using time on korean language instead of making LFS run on for example duo core computers. That would aprox take 1-2 months work (Scawen even said that some time back), instead of adding extra language support?
Don't get me wrong, language support is great, but nothing I see a very important compared to the other stuff.

Just my two whining cents

Quote from The Very End :

Question the development is not a crime

Neither is eating potatoes.. so what.

Quote :

...and if anything - it should be welcommed by the devs. Why - becayse negative constructive critism will help equally as much as positive.

there is no such thing as 'negative constructive critism'.
constructive criticism is inherently positive - you point out a problem but in a 'constructive' way that offers solutions. That's not whats going on here.

Quote :

Calling us who question the development "bitches" really sounds.. silly

Its not questioning the development, it's whining. If the questions being asked have been asked AND ANSWERED many times before, then repeating them is whining and nagging - which is whats been going on here.
If you want to associate yourself with the whiners and try to defend them then more fool you.

Quote :

We are well aware, aswell as the devs, that anoncing something will lead to various results, but I don't think expecting a freakin' update each year is to push it. Now it's been since 2008 about the car, and I know the physics and such that are updated with it demands more time, but I ask again - couldn't they have managed that on one year?

Feck me, you really are a tool.
Those complaints have been repeated so many times they are meaningless, and you don't think it sounds like whining. FFS

Quote :

Ok, say not, well fine. But how much longer will it take to release S3 then? 1 and maybe half year to release one car, I doubt we will be seeing S3 before 2015-2016 with the rate now.

There you go again - proving me right, making my argument even stronger.

Quote :

Also, where is the barrier bug fix? If they work so hard making all these language updates, light indicators updates and such it makes me wonder - do they actually have the knowlege to contiue developing LFS? It seems to me (by wild guessing) that the desvs rather do the easy stuff now, adding languages and some nifty codes here and there, but to actually do things like adding new stuff which hasn't been given on 5 years seems to be asking for too much.

Damn, you are relentless.

Quote :

Sure, call me a whining bitch, if I am allowed to call you a trolling fanboy.

I wont call you a whining bitch without backing it up with some evidence and a decent argument.
If you can do the same then go for it. Until then,
If you call me fanboy then I am allowed to call you anything I damn well like with no basis in reality whatsoever.

wow, this topic makes me sick already, came here with a fear, and I wasn't surprised what I saw here.. completely off topic, go dig snow or something instead of whining..

ONTOPIC:

I'm really looking forward to the new Tyre Physics.
I wonder how they react on the last corner of Aston Historic.
Because nowadays I always slide off the track whilst just following the line.
I'm really curious how the cars will react in that corner with this update.


Kind Regards,

Rocky

Quote from col :

Angry blabla

What you on about?
The Very End was just expressing his opinion, no need to attack him?