Quote from matijapkc :

Can you tell me what's so unrealistic in DiRT2? Maybe physics which are better than those NFS Shift has. It is probably comparable to LFS.
EDIT: Only without barriers.

Amount of grip, the whole pivot around the front cornering physics, the absense of polar moment and self correcting cars, the fact that if you have played Richard Burns Rally you will have the common sense that what a realistic rally game actually is.........

/me thinks physics will be sh*t just like GRID

Quote from matijapkc :

Can you tell me what's so unrealistic in DiRT2? Maybe physics which are better than those NFS Shift has. It is probably comparable to LFS.
EDIT: Only without barriers.

Have you tried Richard Burn's Rally? All the videos of DiRT 2 gives me a impression that the car is revolving around an imaginary centerpoint during a turn - like in the previous games. In RBR, you have to do the driving - without some code assisting you in turning.

Driving games don't HAVE to be super realistic to be fun you know, not matter what the "sim nazi's" would have you believe.

But formula 1 is a genre where some realism is important, because the cars are so fast, if it doesn't response as it should, like with the steering lag in NFS shift or GRID, it becomes pretty undrivable with a wheel.

Quote from JJ72 :

But formula 1 is a genre where some realism is important, because the cars are so fast, if it doesn't response as it should, like with the steering lag in NFS shift or GRID, it becomes pretty undrivable with a wheel.

Maybe to you, but you've got to realise that "hardcore" sims are a niche within a niche, they aren't that big a market, especially on consoles, so the dev houses need to make something that will sell in the greatest number, and an arcade / semi-sim will sell MUCH more than a hardcore sim.

People will still get enjoyment out of it, obviously not so much the people here.

Quote from danowat :

Maybe to you, but you've got to realise that "hardcore" sims are a niche within a niche, they aren't that big a market, especially on consoles, so the dev houses need to make something that will sell in the greatest number, and an arcade / semi-sim will sell MUCH more than a hardcore sim.

People will still get enjoyment out of it, obviously not so much the people here.

I am not expecting a hardcore sim, I am just expecting something with reasonable control and sensitivity, you know, somehow linear steering, no wip-lashing while trying to counter steer and at least some feeling of load from the steering. I've tried the DIRT2 Demo and it doesn't change my impression of Codemaster's console effort, their game feels really bad with a wheel.

The fact I play Forza 3 pretty much says how "hardcore" I am about sim nowadays - not very!

You've also got to remember that amongst the console franternity, wheels are very much in the minority.

yeah, but for a million dollar project,you would expect them to get it right, it's just so simple.

Quote from JJ72 :

yeah, but for a million dollar project,you would expect them to get it right, it's just so simple.

no, you would expect them to release it for as big audience as possible to make some profit.

so....care to explain why is gamepad + wheel audience smaller than just the gamepad audience?

Because racing games are a niche market.

Quote from JJ72 :

so....care to explain why is gamepad + wheel audience smaller than just the gamepad audience?

i meant: when game is too realistic then it is hard to play with gamepad, so most of the (gamepad)audience would leave it on the store after trying the demo.
It won't sell if you try game on first time and you can't hold a car on track...there are limited sim-loving-fanboys out there (like us) who would love it, arcade market would be dead end for this game.

I don't see Forza 3 having that problem, good control and realistic physics are pretty much seperated from each other - like sonic racing has good control in my opinion because it is responsive and precise on both wheel and pad.

Not a fan of simbin but they do pretty well producing games that can be enjoyed by people of different skill level as well, so there is no excuse for codemaster to not do it properly.

I should be worded it better intially, instead of realism I should have said intuitive control.

Quote from danowat :

Driving games don't HAVE to be super realistic to be fun you know, not matter what the "sim nazi's" would have you believe.

Sim Nazi's is a little strong.... I prefer sim snobs personally

Now, there's nothing wrong with us sim snobs finding arcade physics completely unsatisfying, therefore absolutely no fun whatsoever.

It's like driving a Ferarri then having to go back to a Metro. It's never going to be satisfying, so you'd rather not bother.

Quote from danowat :

You've also got to remember that amongst the console franternity, wheels are very much in the minority.

Maybe the eggbox community, but I would guess a greater number of PS3 gamers have a wheel. Probably because Logitech wheels work on PS2, PS3 and PC.

I've not really played GRID, but from reading VirtualR I gather that the PC version has now been modded with more realistic physics. Hopefully the same happens with this.

Maybe amongst the PC & PS3 gaming community, but currently, those that exclusively own a PS3, I'd have said they were still very much in the minority, especially considering there is currently nothing available on the PS3 (Bar a couple of demos) that even comes close to offering a "realistic" racing experiance.

GT5's release will probably change that in a big way though.

Games are for fun... play them for fun.

Sure, I like some sim racing games... But if you can't be bothered to bring out the wheel and the pedals etc. A nice arcade racer is good for jumping in and just enjoying the game.

I might even buy this for PC

Been a while since last F1 game so I will be looking on this one. It has to be arcade as it's F1 representative which means everyone must like it. (Hi FIA) What I hate is an arcade trying to be a simulator so unless you are playing it with wheel it turns 90° when button pressed on keyboard. I just hope this will be playable with keyboard...

Quote from Xaid0n :

Or the overuse of blur (which seems to be more apparent in new racing games )... seems they have just converted Dirt into an F1 game

As much as i love dirt 2 tarmac in it is horrible.

Codemasters what have u done!!!

Couple of updates from their Dev Diaries

First

Handing

Weather

To me, it LOOKS great, but I really just want to get my hands on it to feel the handling, hear the sounds, see the sights of what could be a fantastic game.

Looks good to me

Obviously won't please the sim nazi's, but I reckon it will be a decent enough game

Don't think it matters a great deal. Even if it isn't up to sim standards, I hope they leave it open to modders. Or that the modders find a way to break into it.

I mean it has the same brown filter as grid does, but theres a mod for grid that makes the game look 100x's better. I hope they do something about that.

Weather looks awesome, hope handling will be fine too.