Quote from Dygear :

simultaneous invention.

Even random comments like "reference to main server variable" are matching up, it's not a coincidence.

Quote from filur :

Even random comments like "reference to main server variable" are matching up, it's not a coincidence.

Yeah ... I think I'll just make something from scratch at this point. That should be ready in about another year. Then again, what's to stop someone from claiming the code that I make is theirs? I have to lock myself in a room somewhere, not share any ideas, not share any code and hope that someone else has not come up with the ideas before hand. Considering that I've been exposed to filur's code base, to morpha's code base, to ripnet's code base, to brokens code base, to misiek08's code base, to DarkTimes' code base, and MaKaKaZo's code base I've seen so many good ideas at this point I'm sure some one has come up with something that I will write down even if I only read it once or just because that was the next logical step for someone with such experience.

Where is ripnet?

The packet system being set up as such, within classes with default values already set, is an obvious next step. The defines that I made up myself and then gave away, was an obvious next step. To what extent can some one make a claim to code? I have now handed over all of the improvements to the code that I have made back to the PHPLFS project. It includes timers, and a break out for the select_socket function to allow the timers to work, can I use this system in my next project? Or is this now theirs, and theirs alone even tho I programmed it?

Where is ripnet?

It should be noted that PHPLFS is not the best project out there. Still filur's codebase is by far the most advanced LFS system out there, in any language. I can read C, C++, Python, and PHP code just as well as anyone. Filur's php project lurLFSd is still the best. This brings me to my next point ... Why on god's green earth have you not released this yet filur? Plugin's program them selfs with the environment that you have provided. It's been 4 years, and still not a line of code has slipped out from that project, that's got to make you take pause for a second. I've had access to all of your code for such a long time now, why did I not just rip that one off? Don't get me wrong the second I figure out a way to make the instanceof AI thing work in my project I'm going to copy your idea, but not your code. Copy and pasting code is not what programming is all about. Copy and pasting is not programming at all. I'm not going to use your code, I may use your ideas, but not your code.


[edit]I understand we are way off topic at this point, but I feel this thread has evolved enough and I would ask that the mods allow this to continue. There is some great debate in here, with some very level heads, and who knows what might come of it! It is as the end of the day, quite a fascinating subject copyright law, and licensing open source projects. At least until we hear the closing arguments from all party's I'd like all post to remain part of this thread.[/edit]

Quote from Dygear :

Yeah ... I think I'll just make something from scratch at this point.

Why not make a fork of PHPLFS, merge your modifications and release it under the apache license?

Quote from Dygear :

Why on god's green earth have you not released this yet filur?

Good question, i'll think about it.

Quote from filur :

Why not make a fork of PHPLFS, merge your modifications and release it under the apache license?

I'm still studying the license, so far, I'm not impressed by it. On it's merit, it has some good ideas, but it's not how I like to release the code I work on.

Quote from filur :

Good question, i'll think about it.

Your such an infuriating man! Do you have a time frame for you thinking about it?

Things typed / said in italics are meant with love.

Only evidence of my involvement I could find so far
in D1GP-Admins.txt in the D1GP-1.2 sample script.

Anyway, if ripnet cares, remembers and is still around, he might be able to explain it further. All I can say is I'm not a thief. Look at pyinsim, it contains code, fixes and improvements I wrote (as Alex will undoubtedly confirm), yet there is no reference to me in any form or shape. I'm fine with that, I'm just saying don't judge by meta information (such as copyright and licence info) alone.

I thought I gave credit to you and some other people in the readme?

Here I am, just noticed this thread. I know that morpha said he used my code and modified it quite significantly and called it his own.

Personally I don't care how this code is used, I would just like some credit for the work I did.

It's Memorial day here in the US and I'm headed out for a party.... I'll look into this stuff later.

Cheers

Guys...

Just merge all the projects into some super duper PHPInsimLuaLurPySimModPlugin X.

Quote from DarkTimes :

I thought I gave credit to you and some other people in the readme?

Of course, I meant in the actual source file. PHPLFS doesn't really come with any documentation, hence comments in the code are really the only place for credit available. I'm not saying you did anything wrong or that I want you to change it

Quote from ripnet :

Here I am, just noticed this thread. I know that morpha said he used my code and modified it quite significantly and called it his own.

What do you mean? I don't want to start a fight, I just want to understand how we ended up in this situation, because I can't remember what went on 2 years ago to the extent that I could trust it'd be the truth. I don't generally claim code I did not write to be my own, nor do I think I would have done that 2 years ago.

Basically what I see is code that I'm fairly certain I wrote (by which I mean some code, not all of it of course) in a project I may either never have heard about or forgotten about (seeing as it apparently never really caught on, it's entirely possible that I simply forgot). Also note that I did not release the code as my own per se, I shared it with Mark who - correctly - stated to have received it from me.
As I said before, you deserve a lot of credit for the idea and proof-of-concept, and I should have added a copyright notice, but as I also said before, I never removed such notice or licence info. Should I have infringed your rights in some way, I apologize.

Edit: Well I suppose I did infringe your rights by not adding the copyright notice, regardless of it being intentional or not. My apologies.

Anyway, enjoy the party

Quote from morpha :

As I said before, you deserve a lot of credit for the idea and proof-of-concept

Nope, that was me again. PHPInSim - 23rd February 2008 @ 22:09 UTC, with the first publicly available code. But I think filur beat all of us by around 2 years with his project, lurLFSd that PHPInSim was inspired by. (Actually it was more like I got really frustrated that he would not release it into the wild.)

Quote from ripnet :

Personally I don't care how this code is used.

Can I give you the code that I've added to merge back into PHPLFS? Morpha has a pretty kick ass UDP / TCP socket driver that is missing from your codebase, and I've added timers and task events to the code. It's quite an improvement over usability for the project as a whole, making a much more complete insim product.

Quote from Dygear :

Nope, that was me again. PHPInSim - 23rd February 2008 @ 22:09 UTC, with the first publicly available code. But I think filur beat all of us by around 2 years with his project, lurLFSd that PHPInSim was inspired by. (Actually it was more like I got really frustrated that he would not release it into the wild.)

I meant ripnet's initial code, which was a functional InSim application for sure, just not fully functional.

This doesn't need to be difficult. If you use/redistribute code, leave the author's name and license intact.

I did what I did because I was only aware of Dygear's code and IIRC it had an issue with the buffering of packets (though a good start at the time). I ran a few InSims and I eventually modified it where I could reload the logic code w/o restarting the application. The SF project was to share the work so others didn't have to rewrite everything in case they wanted similar.

Please, if you have any updates for my project, please send them to me with the proper credits and I'll be happy to update SF.

Open source code should be a community effort, and every contributor should be recognized.

Quote from ripnet :

Open source code should be a community effort, and every contributor should be recognized.

I completely agree, and again, it was never my intention to "steal" the project from you. When I showed it to Dygear, I did so in a collaborative editor (Gobby), it was simply a mixture of general confusion, blurry memory and messy file structure / documentation on my end.

On topic I have to say though, I think while PHPLFS+PHPInSim+PHP5 InSim Mod could prove powerful, the codebase lacks efficiency. Whether a complete rewrite is more efficient than a thorough revisit, I don't know, but it doesn't seem all that unlikely.

Guys...

Patch this baby up, release it as a group effort. Make up a snazzy dev team name.. like LFS PHP-Team. Release that shit up!

It's clear that the community would like a good PHP library/engine for LFS. Why don't we all contribute to the project, weather it be my original one on SF or starting a new one.

If we use my project on SF, we can change the name of the project if the community decides so. Also I'll add people as necessary.

I'd like feedback from the developers here.

Quote from ripnet :

It's clear that the community would like a good PHP library/engine for LFS. Why don't we all contribute to the project, weather it be my original one on SF or starting a new one.

If we use my project on SF, we can change the name of the project if the community decides so. Also I'll add people as necessary.

I'd like feedback from the developers here.

Yeah, listen to this dude!

Dygear, morpha, and misiek08: Do you have sourceforge accounts? I'll add you to the project, and we can collaborate on the project together...

Quote from ripnet :

Dygear, morpha, and misiek08: Do you have sourceforge accounts? I'll add you to the project, and we can collaborate on the project together...

Yeah, give me a second let me see if I can find it ... *blows the dust off my SF login* ... The account name is dygear (lower case D ... Gah!). The only problem is not SF it self, it's that I have no idea how to use an SVN / Mercurial, and I kept on stumbling over that in the LFSWorldSDK project and I stopped updating it on that site. But if we are going to have 4 devs working on this, then yeah, we are going to need this system for sure, and I should get off my lazy ass and learn how to use it!

Quote from Dygear :

I have no idea how to use an SVN / Mercurial

There's no subsitute for actually just using it. The great thing is that if you make a total cock up on check-in it's always reversible. Might not be fun to do, but do-able

I look forward to seeing what this project comes out with, and giving it a good stress test when you release the first collaborative revision

Quite a good guide to Mercurial here.

http://hginit.com/

Quote from Dygear :

I have no idea how to use an SVN / Mercurial

Just make sure to begin with the official command-line tools and you'll learn quickly, avoid fancy clients like TortoiseSVN that does stuff behind the scenes.

Quote from filur :

Just make sure to begin with the official command-line tools and you'll learn quickly, avoid fancy clients like TortoiseSVN that does stuff behind the scenes.

+1

I'll get things setup.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

There's no subsitute for actually just using it. The great thing is that if you make a total cock up on check-in it's always reversible. Might not be fun to do, but do-able

I look forward to seeing what this project comes out with, and giving it a good stress test when you release the first collaborative revision

My problem always was that I would spend 5 hours on the programming part, 2 hours checking all of the code to make sure it worked in all situations, and then another 2 hours checking the code in ... This should be easy!

Quote from DarkTimes :

Quite a good guide to Mercurial here.

http://hginit.com/

I'll have to start reviewing this along side Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support .

Quote from filur :

Just make sure to begin with the official command-line tools and you'll learn quickly, avoid fancy clients like TortoiseSVN that does stuff behind the scenes.

The interface is pretty good, but I have no idea what it is doing, and that is my major problem. I look at the result and I'm like, "how on earth did that happen?"

Quote from ripnet :

+1

I'll get things setup.

Very good sir!

So guys, where do I sign for my diplomacy award?

Actually, on a more serious note, I would be willing to contribute as well, even if it's just writing example scripts or whatever.