hi this is for developers and users.

the LFS is slowly dying what i mean with this is every day LFS is loosing players. Right know only those people are playing who feel patriotic to LFS game.
I do not think there are people who will argue with me on this

I think what LFS needs and LFS team has to do is simply pause there

sorry for my bad english

So do you think when the developers stop developing the physics and go developing graphics, you will be ok when it takes long?

Anyway, the number of LFS players is not going down that rapidly, look here

Quote from Flame CZE :

So do you think when the developers stop developing the physics and go developing graphics, you will be ok when it takes long?

Anyway, the number of LFS players is not going down that rapidly, look here

Kinda OT, but I realised there's been a small drop over the last fortnight But of course, the period is too small to draw reliable conclusions. Personnally I'd go for a "World Cup effect".

Sorry Mikheil, but your idea is based on wrong assumptions. First, there still are new players coming to LFS. There isn't a lot of them, but as I recall it there has never been any rocket growth of the licensed players count.

As for the "trading physics for graphics" idea, I really don't see how it would improve anything at this point. Current state of DirectX is kind of unsuitable for making a switch now. You can go with well supported but rather antiquated DX9, DX10 is just an extension to DX9 with no really interesting features. DX11 is the way to go, but today there is just a handful of people with DX11 hardware. Rewriting the whole DX engine would take some time and developing more of them (DX9 and DX11 for example) would take even more of it. In the end there'd be the SAME GAME, only with a prettier face.

Moreover, it's actually easy to create a game with the best graphics. You just use all the capabilities of graphics hardware and write some shader programs. Look around how many games look good today, but a lot of them is just a boring crap.
Creating a game with the best physics is much more difficult. It takes a lot of research, some ingenuity and hundreds of hours of hard work. It also needs some dedication on the developers side and only few developer teams are up to such challenges.
Bottomline is that good graphics attracts attention, but it's the other stuff(physics, online community, game system etc.) what makes players love the game. If you want an example, take World of Warcraft. It's technology is even more outdated than LFS in some respects and it still has millions of players.

i never said stop developing physics.
first read, second analyze and third post/answer
anyway what i said was pause (which means to hold. it does not means to stop)
one thing for i am still playing this game is for its incredible physics (until cars will touch to each other as we now)
i really did thought that there was declain in past two years because how many times i tried to play there was a less and more less people online.
but i am pretty sure other people will agree on this.

you do not need to goo to dx 10 or dx11. dx 9 is ok for this game just look at 3d car models up close and you will see what i mean.
look even at the trees how about the grass, sand or water. water looks like someone put texture of water on the road
sand looks like hard ground until you will drive on that and you will see something like as dust coming out from behind your car
and do not lat me start on the trees and people!!!

i think most of the new players you are talking about are people who have been playing LFS demo for years and they did not had money to buy s1 or s2 license and know they have.
how i know because i was like that to, i was playing demo more than 1year

mikheil +55555555555555555555

but why i think it is better to pause developing physics is. as i said people are visual and they like shiny stuff. soo better the graphics more people will be interested playing this game, more people will be interested more people will buy, more people will buy more money the LFS developers will have, more money they will have, more programmers they will be able to hire, more programmers they will have, fester they will be able to develop more stuff for this game and hapier we will be
do i have to be this much detailed to people to understand
and in graphics we all can contribute
as we did whit skins

Quote from mikheil :

but why i think it is better to pause developing physics is. as i said people are visual and they like shiny stuff. soo better the graphics more people will be interested playing this game, more people will be interested more people will buy, more people will buy more money the LFS developers will have, more money they will have, more programmers they will be able to hire, more programmers they will have, fester they will be able to develop more stuff for this game and hapier we will be
do i have to be this much detailed to people to understand
and in graphics we all can contribute
as we did whit skins

Do you even understand what this game is about? That post made me annoyed even I hate LFS development etc.

You are so wrong in every aspect, we don't need the kind of people who are after eyecandy! We need the kind of people who are about serious racing! (or drifting, I accept it nowadays).
Developers will not hire new developers, they would have done that already. There are people who would work for them free.

Just.. stop making these kinds of threads! We have heard this shit more than enough.

Oh you... laddergoat..

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

Do you even understand what this game is about? That post made me annoyed even I hate LFS development etc.

You are so wrong in every aspect, we don't need the kind of people who are after eyecandy! We need the kind of people who are about serious racing! (or drifting, I accept it nowadays).
Developers will not hire new developers, they would have done that already. There are people who would work for them free.

Just.. stop making these kinds of threads! We have heard this shit more than enough.

let me tell you something if you do not like such posts as this please stop coming inside such posts as this
and i perfectly understand what is this game is about

but you are wrong in this
"we don't need the kind of people who are after eyecandy"
every one will agre with me on this no one from birth did not came with love of speed or drift.
Soo when they see it they will start too like it so if they the people who you are calling eyecandy will see and will try and they will secside just a littelbit in drift or grip at highspeed, and they will know that they are doing that not same arcade game is helping theme they will be hooked on it and they will never goo beck to need for spped or some other arcade


i have friends they are kind of people who you might call eyecandy and when i should them the LFS they did not want even to try it after NFS undercover they were like WTF is this
and when they are calling me and i say i will cal you back am playing LFS they are like are you still playing that game.
but the thing is they are plaing counter strike 1.6 that old game it is now 2010 nad they are playing it
and am loughing on them on that game
if the LFS had something that they could goat interested they would tried it and they would liked it.

Quote from mikheil :

but why i think it is better to pause developing physics is. as i said people are visual and they like shiny stuff. soo better the graphics more people will be interested playing this game, more people will be interested more people will buy, more people will buy more money the LFS developers will have, more money they will have, more programmers they will be able to hire, more programmers they will have, fester they will be able to develop more stuff for this game and hapier we will be
do i have to be this much detailed to people to understand
and in graphics we all can contribute
as we did whit skins

I guess that Tomba pretty much got it, but I just couldn't resist to add something.
First, better graphics doesn't mean more players. No matter what you might think, I just don't see how would a fancier appearance magically attract more people.
Second, I've never tried to write a DX graphics engine, but I guess it'd take at least six months to even create one and about the same time to make it working flawlessly.
Third, why should the devs now after over 2 years of work just give up and start working from the scratch on something completely different? Can you imagine how hard it would be for them to get back to VWS and Rockingham? Not to mention that resuming that work would be rather pointless at that time.
Fourth, even if the new graphics engine did attract some more players, it'd also make some leave. Even if the devs followed the most illogical way and created DX9 engine only, there are lots of people whose hardware wouldn't be able to keep up. They'd either upgrade or leave.

I agree with you that LFS could use some graphics update, but with LFS it will never be a top level priority and I like it that way. Actually, many of us do.
And no, LFS devs won't hire any extra programmers because they do not want to.

hi this is for crying babies,

DX9, special HDR "shiney" graphics and n x(power 10) car choice does not save crappy physics modelled games and like r-factor and DiRT, TDU(sims unlimmited) from being fun for more than 2 weeks. They get old very quick because of their canned effects & tbh it eventually feels like BigMacs and French Fries for your mind. I'd rather race in a server with a few hard core racer dudes than a FULL server with a bunch of x-box pre-teenscrashing me to hell who like the "shiney" stuff and that's why they bought LFS.

BTW if you want shiney over saturated effects then download bloom mod for DX8 or turn up saturation levels in GFX card settings. That's what I did. Looks just as crazy as TDU etc. Also, games like GT5 takes hundreds of developers years to do and still will have physics flaws and cars don't ever die? lol wut..... sell out!. How you expect 3 guys to produce similar graphics in less time? Physics would have to suffer, and with crap physics and good gfx, LFS would die like ever other arcade racer does.

Scirocco +1 and Rockingham will not save LFS but new tyre model may do.

Please wait until S3 is finished and on store shelves, then come back because you obviously don't get what it means to be "still in development".

How the heck does demanding LFS released now ASAP, get things done quicker? Thread dead.

Mainstream gamers are attracted by graphics. This is true. No argument there. But they also get turned away by a steep learning curve just as easily. So why not suggest dumbing down the physics a bit. You know... Just so people can try it out... get that extra income. If you're afraid that it might alienate hardcore sim racers, then why not add a toggle for realistic physics? But not totally of course. We wouldn't want casual gamers to get beat by sim racers online. That wouldn't look nice. So let's sprinkle a bit of traction control. So little that only the sim racers will notice. They're a smaller demographic anyway. And licensed cars. That attracts loads of people better than physics. Of course the damage needs to be dumbed down too. We wouldn't want most of the car manufacturers having a fit when people see how easy it is to wreck the cars in a virtual world. Negative publicity and all that.

Let's call the game: Live for Speed: Shift

Creating a sim racer does not go down the same road as mainstream games. You have to establish your sim as one that will best represent real driving mechanics. You're missing the point if you think the devs need to go to graphics to sell this product. It's not aiming for that demographic. At least not yet. There is a larger customer base for dedicated race sim fans if it does not take a newer PC to run the game flawlessly. Give the people here "decent" graphics, enough to pick out braking points and a correct sense of speed (Eyecandy games go for that "blurred" look) and depth; and they would not think twice about looking at a 2D tree or crowd. You just don't notice that hurtling down the straights. The mainstream crowd would love to pick on those. But give them time with professional physics and they'd drop the game in a few tries.

To your point, nobody loves drifting or racing right off the bat. But if these people don't like the game minus the eyecandy, then chances are they're not going to like it with it. It's just a different demographic.

The devs do think about the grpahics. Or else we'd end up with boxes with a hexagon for wheels, so don't panic. But it isn't on the top of their list. Another problem with developing for graphically inclined gamers first is that they'd be in an endless loop of updating the game. In a few months new hardware comes along and they'd have to shelf creating better tire models just to bring new gamers to try LFS. Then tire models will be in development limbo.

Quote from mikheil :

i have friends they are kind of people who you might call eyecandy

Sorry but am I the only one who rofl'd at that?

I'm currently using a Laptop to play LFS but since I got bored on waiting from some improvements (Yeah I'm new at LFS i shouldnt say something like that).

We know that LFS Developers they didn't hire for a developer they do it themselves only thats why the progress making is so slow or delayed.

I understand what they say but changing the LFS graphics well its kinda hard for me to use a Laptop with only around 40 - 30 FPS.

Eyecandy isn't just about looking nice its add atmosphere and realism.
Also LFS is a game want it or not call it sim or what you want but it still just a game.
While playing racing i want to feel as close as possible like i am driving a real car on real track and graphics will surely help.

But main problem with lfs for me isn't graphics, the cars looking pretty good, cockpit view is quite realistic(In fact i prefer it than something DIRT like with weird shadows all over the place) Hi res textures and lynx addon make game look nice.
The main problem for me its small number of tracks and tracks design i dont mean layout because its not bad, I mean design.
The fact that most tracks look the same.
So when driving Blackwood or Aston or Westhill its like driving the same track the only difference is layout.
And to make thing worse the only surroundings are green grass and trees.
After a couple or races its getting pretty dull to see the same thing over and over and over again.

I am pretty sure that thing like rebuilding LFS wont happen but I am also sure that allowing mods will bring something fresh and moders will be able fix a few things that devs dont have time to take care of.

For me its monotonous killing the game a few laps is enough to get feed up with green landscape and turn off the game.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Sorry but am I the only one who rofl'd at that?

Yes, probably you are the only one who laughs at someone because he/she doesn't master a foreign language.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

For me its monotonous killing the game a few laps is enough to get feed up with green landscape and turn off the game.

Quote from Bandit77 :

Yes, probably you are the only one who laughs at someone because he/she doesn't master a foreign language.

I doubt that.

I didn't laugh AT him anyway but I guess you wouldn't understand.

Why do we need new graphics? Go download the enhances graphics in the forums...

LFS does not need enhancing graphically yet. IMO, patch Z28 can look really fantastic with texture upgrades amongst the minor updates the LFS Dev's have made.

While I do think LFS is suffering from a slight lack of players at the moment, I do not believe that LFS is dying as such. I mean, think about it. It's summer! Most people will either be on Holiday, or enjoying the nice hot weather with there friends and family. Also, alot of people have not left LFS. They are just waiting for the update. I bet that once the update is released, all the players will come flooding back.

Just be patient, and enjoy LFS as it is now.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

LFS does not need enhancing graphically yet. IMO, patch Z28 can look really fantastic with texture upgrades amongst the minor updates the LFS Dev's have made.

While I do think LFS is suffering from a slight lack of players at the moment, I do not believe that LFS is dying as such. I mean, think about it. It's summer! Most people will either be on Holiday, or enjoying the nice hot weather with there friends and family. Also, alot of people have not left LFS. They are just waiting for the update. I bet that once the update is released, all the players will come flooding back.

Just be patient, and enjoy LFS as it is now.

Yes that is what i mean with "alot of people have not left LFS. They are just waiting for the update". if people will read everything what i wrote they will understand what i suggested. i understand my English is bad but am trying my best.
such game as LFS can not die completely or forever

Why do you give a crap about LFS' population going?


Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Can we just close this thread?

It's all pointless, and everyone's getting annoyed or idk for nothing. Just let it go. All on all, what could possibly happen? You're not gonna die of LFS does.. are you?(that's a pure 100% rhetorical question!)

Just leave the thread, and watch the laddergoat vid once more to calm down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggB33d0BLcY