Curiously enough, as a newbie who doesn't go online often, I second the position of SamH. I didn't express my opinion about that before because I don't think there's always strength in numbers. But now I feel I have to do it. Although BigDave may have some points, his initial attitude, as pointed out by some other forum users, is somewhat elitist and doesn't consider at all the fact that the BF1 is completely new, so the mayhem could well be over in some time. For practical reasons LFS won't go far if this elitist attitude will prevail. That's why I was particularly glad to see an experienced LFSer like The Angry Angel agreeing with me. But anyway, consensus is not truth. We'll just have to wait and see.

Quote from Albieg :

Curiously enough, as a newbie who doesn't go online often, I second the position of SamH. I didn't express my opinion about that before because I don't think there's always strength in numbers. But now I feel I have to do it. Although BigDave may have some points, his initial attitude, as pointed out by some other forum users, is somewhat elitist and doesn't consider at all the fact that the BF1 is completely new, so the mayhem could well be over in some time. For practical reasons LFS won't go far if this elitist attitude will prevail. That's why I was particularly glad to see an experienced LFSer like The Angry Angel agreeing with me. But anyway, consensus is not truth. We'll just have to wait and see.

How do you mean by my initial attitude? *If it helps, I'm asking in curiosity, not in anger. *

As wikipedia says about twit: A silly, annoying, ineffectual, and/or imbecilic person, typically English.

We all know wikipedia has some wrong entries, but I don't think this is the case. In my opinion you repeatedly lacked in style failing to accept some basic facts, too. I find this quite ironical. Class is not water, we say here. Of course you can rejudge your attitude just paying attention to the thread and to the answers you received, evaluating the whole context and the consequences of your actions and your words. The title of this thread is irritating too. I expected to read some more or less accurate technical analysis, instead I got two replays I won't even bother downloading.

Let's do some experimental spinning:
But of course you can always think you were right calling other players twits. I'll always think that referring that way to other people in public severely lacks in style and understanding. The defensive reaction was comical too, when you repeated the words of another forumer without adding any kind of content. Just like "hey, somebody else thinks what I think!" and hiding behind him just to show you're not alone. I know that. You may score some points, I said, but you've chosen some of the weakest possible forms of expression: silly, annoying, ineffectual and imbecillic. That doesn't equate to you being a twit, of course. Unless you think that other paying LFSers who prompted you to start such a thread are twits in their real life. This could well be, but you don't know them enough to say such a thing. And I don't know you, so I won't base my judgement on a few words. Sorry for this spin, but I thought it was the best way to try to make you understand. If I offended you, please accept my apologies.

Edit: for other things, reread the thread, and reevaluate.

Quote from SkyNet :

I just wonder how long will this BF1 hysteria last for. I mean, when i go online and check the servers i rarely spot any fox and almost no FO8 servers.

I know. Perhaps this is part of the problem too - if you want to race online at Blackwood, you have little option but to take the BF1.

I don't really enjoy the BF1 (everything happens too fast!!!), can't drive it consistently and still much prefer the FOX. However, that can be a little lonely at the moment....

Quote from BigDave2967 :

How do you mean by my initial attitude? *If it helps, I'm asking in curiosity, not in anger. *

Well there are a few things, firstly the wording of your initial post, your use of the words "Style" and "twits", and im sure "noob" is mentioned there somewhere. Thats what got me started really.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

It's pathetic. Get real. Pity I expected more from you because everyone is talking about this apporpriatley, and not discussing the "quality" of this topic. If you don't like this topic, you don't have to post here.

There is a difference. Drivers with months, even years experience on LFS, that can quickly adapt to the BF1, and drive away and win consecutive races. If you see on the replay of "BF1 Style" 1st place battle was enjoyable, and how it should be, especially after a few days.

But still a majority of new drivers and heading straight to BF1s instead of the more basic cars, and they are becoming full of themselves, and think they know what the braking point is, and making the corner. Especially when they spin, and not pit at all. *especially when they are on the racing line*

This also...Drivers with months, even years experience on LFS that can quickly adapt to the BF1... Im afraid it doesnt always work that way.

Personally, pre-patch, I wouldnt touch the FO8, when the patch was released, I was with a team mate. I was intending to race the BF1 offline for a few laps before joining a server. But my team mate setup a temp server and invited me to join him online so we could experience this beast together, which we did for around 3 hours solid. It was great, loads of people were joining all the time and some clean (fun) racing was had by all.

New people will arrive every day, they will go straight for the reason they bought the game, which at the moment is the BF1 and they will want to drive it online, and why the hell shouldnt they be allowed to, they bought a licence, they shall drive what they wish. The credits system was disabled a while ago.

Patience + Respect + Track Awareness = Great Racing Experience.

"becoming full of themselves" - What about all the so-called Experienced people who are always full of themselves because they have a world record, high lapcount or can so single fast laps?

Quote from Albieg :

Curiously enough, as a newbie who doesn't go online often, I second the position of SamH. I didn't express my opinion about that before because I don't think there's always strength in numbers. But now I feel I have to do it. Although BigDave may have some points, his initial attitude, as pointed out by some other forum users, is somewhat elitist and doesn't consider at all the fact that the BF1 is completely new, so the mayhem could well be over in some time. For practical reasons LFS won't go far if this elitist attitude will prevail. That's why I was particularly glad to see an experienced LFSer like The Angry Angel agreeing with me. But anyway, consensus is not truth. We'll just have to wait and see.

I find myself totally agreeing with you on serveral points here.

Quote from tinvek :

just wish some people would remember the following

1, we all were new to lfs once.

2, these incidents are not happening in league races, just casual meetings of people who enjoy LFS

3, although we call LFS a sim, at end of day it is a game and not real life, to the best of my knowlage no one is racing for money, no one has to spend £x thousands repairing their pc after being shunted off and no one ends up in hospital or morque. (unless they get so wound up that they suffer a heart attack or fall off chair)

basically just chill out , yeah its anoying but there are far worse drivers out there on public roads and chances are you come across them every day, some of the worst being those who display the very charactoristics that the people who complain about noobs do here,

i,e. "get out of my way, your going to slow, you shouldn.t be allowed on the road" etc etc.

LFS THE FIRST SIM WITH SIMULATED ROAD RAGE

one idea would be go on another track, bl attracts new drivers and with lap times under a minute and currently fields of 20 carswhich are being spread out by incidents, it can actually be hard to find a gap to leave the pits and its inevitable that people do not fancy waiting up to 40 secs for a decent gap before joining track, especially when due to pit wall, the only way, unless you change view point, of seeing down the track is by pulling level with the cones and then risking being hit by cars which misjudge their braking point, its happened to me and its bloody anoying, especially since the driver concerned attempted to blame me till it was pointed out i was in pit lane, very close to barrier, and he hit me hard enough to flick over me and hit the top of the fence

yes i know the track map helps but when theres a yellow dot passing every 3 secs its not realistic to judge your exit on a 5mm gap between dots.

Exactly Right.

Quote from rAcEr2418 :

How so, telling them to back off a little?? You know, think about others...illepall

Try reversing that and see how it feels...

Ive been driving LFS since before S2 alpha was released, with some considerable time spend in the demo servers before the release date. I have met many people on the track who have become friends who I still regularly see. I have met many arsehole who doesnt like me on the track, or here, it happens everywhere, its something new to get used to.

I PLAY LFS for fun. I am involved with some League races, and those which are private are taken as seriously by an experienced person as they are by a guy or gal who is very new to the Simulation.

I still consider myself to be new. Even those who have been here longer, sometimes dont understand or show any kind of compassion towards the newer driver... I dont see why not, its not hard to think about words before posting, on the track people get hot-headed. Frankyly its annoying.

I see it a lot, a few guys will be having some FUN on the track, racing away, having some contact, saying sorry and getting on with it... Then an experienced guy will join, and a few races in, there will be an incident that was perfectly acceptable for those already in the server, but to the experienced guy, this is unacceptable, on purpuse or "noobish", and the person involved will be told that, and thats unfair, they never bought this game to be told they are new, or to be treated with any less respect than others. Sometimes, experienced drivers RUIN great, fun racing sessions. They seem to think that entering a server, winning the first, second, third race, and all the rest that follow is something thats gonna be looked up to by others in the server, that the field of cars will part upon command and let them through, a message for those who (deep down) think this...

ITS NOT TRUE, NOBODY REALLY CARES HOW YOU DRIVE ON THE TRACK.

[Thats a long post for 8:53am on a tuesday morning.. DFP DFP DFP today]!

Quote from MrGrumpy :

I know. Perhaps this is part of the problem too - if you want to race online at Blackwood, you have little option but to take the BF1.

I don't really enjoy the BF1 (everything happens too fast!!!), can't drive it consistently and still much prefer the FOX. However, that can be a little lonely at the moment....

Agreed! Although I must add that the FO8 is fantastic to drive now, and the FOX has been improved also, Amazing cars to drive.

Quote from Albieg :

As wikipedia says about twit: A silly, annoying, ineffectual, and/or imbecilic person, typically English.

Only the fact that I am not English. .

Quote :

We all know wikipedia has some wrong entries, but I don't think this is the case. In my opinion you repeatedly lacked in style failing to accept some basic facts, too. I find this quite ironical. Class is not water, we say here. Of course you can rejudge your attitude just paying attention to the thread and to the answers you received, evaluating the whole context and the consequences of your actions and your words. The title of this thread is irritating too. I expected to read some more or less accurate technical analysis, instead I got two replays I won't even bother downloading.

I have paid attention to the thread, just not botherd to reply until my name got whipped and touche. I would have made a more thorough analysis, but I was simply busy, and didn't have the time to do it. But points have been made clear on both sides. Which is what I am happy to achieve on this thread.

Quote :

Let's do some experimental spinning:
But of course you can always think you were right calling other players twits.

That is simply pure speculation on what you think I was meaning. I was being sarcastic. For example, someone makes a silly mistake, whether its real life, or online, you laugh for them, and tease them "You dipstick!" or "You twit!" Of course there were going to be crashes in the T1, or in every race on BF1, since the debut on Friday.

Quote :

I'll always think that referring that way to other people in public severely lacks in style and understanding. The defensive reaction was comical too, when you repeated the words of another forumer without adding any kind of content. Just like "hey, somebody else thinks what I think!" and hiding behind him just to show you're not alone. I know that.

Another pure speculation. I was realising that I was repeating what I said, but in a different form of description. I haven't kissed his arse, or hid behind since.

Quote :

You may score some points, I said, but you've chosen some of the weakest possible forms of expression: silly, annoying, ineffectual and imbecillic. That doesn't equate to you being a twit, of course. Unless you think that other paying LFSers who prompted you to start such a thread are twits in their real life.

I may have chosen the weakest forms, yes, but I'm still on the learning curve of how to deal with these matters appropriately. I don't consider other LFS users "twits" unless they are exactly like Laden, plus it would form a disrespect to other members, sets a bad example on this forum, and making a poor reputation for myself. As I already explained on the replays, "twits" above, it was not intended to insult.

Quote :

This could well be, but you don't know them enough to say such a thing. And I don't know you, so I won't base my judgement on a few words. Sorry for this spin, but I thought it was the best way to try to make you understand. If I offended you, please accept my apologies.

Well you got me to understand the views, but you have taken my sort of views the wrong way, and took this approach. Which I expected, as I realised that I did put in a poor effort on this thread, and should have made more time put into it, and take more consideration, but as already explained, I was busy, and had to deal things in a rush.

Now I do apologise if I offended others, I will be more considerate in my actions in the future, but I wasn't doing this to insult drivers, but just to get their attention and see a twitch in the vien of their foreheads. I am not the member you think I am right now. A wanker.

*edit* I just changed the summary of the topic on top. Hope that looks better.

Now that's becoming really embarassing: about you not being English: I couldn't care less. I'm Italian and I don't live in an English speaking country, I never speak English and I write English only in this forum. That doesn't mean I would insult people with words whose meaning I don't know and understand. I would try to use a dictionary and, whenever failing in my communication intentions, APOLOGISE or recognise the error. You failed to do so even now.
You were being sarcastic? I love sarcasm too, but not when, as in your case, it's really "the lowest form of wit", as George Bernard Shaw said. Once again you fail to understand sarcasm is based on mechanisms you don't seem to be comfortable with, and stand by your error even when all evidence is against you, when the communication error is yours and call my reflections pure speculation. That's simply rubbish. No sarcasm intended here.

Different form of description? Oh, please.

Stop the name calling, please. If I realised you were the one behind the "named and shamed" thread I wouldn't even have bothered answering to you. But it seems that the reactions on that thread did not affect you too, and you do the same thing again. Style? Don't make me laugh. Now I've got a clearer understanding. My first post was rather idiotic too, but you really don't seem to learn.

And your effort is much poorer than you think, since you call my thoughts speculations when they are direct consequences of your mistakes. There IS a reason of my speculation,it's in your actions, and you fail to understand it or apologise to people who feel offended by your mistakes. I find this really, really ironical.

Quote from mkinnov8 :

Agreed! Although I must add that the FO8 is fantastic to drive now, and the FOX has been improved also, Amazing cars to drive.

I was suprised that the V8, and FOX are much easier to handle, less wheel spin and tyres have made that difference.

For sure, I really wouldnt touch them with a long stick before, but now I love em!

And I just realised you added the apologies before the *edit*, BigDave. This makes me look like a moron for my answer. That's simply wrong, wrong, wrong. The apologies were not there before.

Quote from Albieg :

And I just realised you added the apologies before the *edit*, BigDave. This makes me look like a moron for my answer. That's simply wrong, wrong, wrong. The apologies were not there before.

Everyone makes mistakes mate. don't worry about it. I am a decent guy, but I can understand that I have missed the "basics" so I do intend to take that in more consideration in the near future.

I'm worrying about my words being transformed by your actions, and I'm warning others about you not playing fair, whatever the reason. That's all.

Quote from Albieg :

I'm worrying about my words being transformed by your actions, and I'm warning others about you not playing fair, whatever the reason. That's all.

Ok, there could be a misunderstanding here. Which name do you think I am under when I race?

I don't care about that at all. To be clear I'm referring to the edits, not about the race.

Quote from Albieg :

I don't care about that at all. To be clear I'm referring to the edits, not about the race.

In that case, let it go, we both said our views. Why not do some racing, you have only done 15 laps, get some experience under your belt .

Why not? Because I tend not to take things that easy, not even online race.

Quote from rAcEr2418 :

I have pretty much stopped the oval completely as well for the sake of patience, I just cant do a race when they are wrecking from the speed. It takes a lot of skill (believe it or not) to take these to the oval, much more than the FO8. The racing is closer and much faster. Either way though, I do enjoy these cars on the circuits as it should be much more (newbs or not)...and I'm afraid my oval days are as done as PatchQ. See you around the circuits (Aston most probably! )

Regards,

SennARaCeR

Quote from thisnameistaken :

To the guy who made the comment about how much skill it takes to race at the oval: Try doing something else for a change so you get some perspective. Oh, and "Hahahahahahaha"

Actually RaCeR pretty much only does road courses and is active in the SimFIA so I would say he has a decent amount of perspective.....in both "road courses" as well as "oval" racing so why don't you get some perspective.

I love this game, I love racing online with people who realise that I am not always going to win, I love racing peole who respect the fact we ALL make mistakes, and don't have a spaz attack if I spin. Unfortunately I know of only 10 people on the servers who are like this, and they happen to be my mates. Last night I got banned from a server, because I spun a few times. No-one hit me, and there were several people running the WRONG way around the track. (A Ferrari in particular seemed to delight in doing this). Now what was the point in me even
BOTHERING to practice offline, when that happens? I am seriously getting pissed off with the hypocrasy of some people.

Quote from Albieg :

Why not? Because I tend not to take things that easy, not even online race.

You should. Its a game.

Quote from zeugnimod :

You should. Its a game.

Russian roulette is a game too, but I would take it seriously. Much more than LFS. I'm not into that sort of stuff and I'm obviously taking it to the extreme. I don't judge other people's attitude towards gaming as long as they show some respect for fellow gamers. Someone wanted an answer and I gave it, and that's all. I like people acting responsibly when interacting with other people, and I like to be responsible myself. I try to be that way. Right now hitting the track with some muscled car would not be the right thing for me. As long as I am absent, I am the sole judge. When I'll be present it won't be that way. But at the moment, as a judge, I'm quite heavy handed with myself. That's what I mean by taking things seriously. And I see nothing wrong with it, as long as I don't harass other people.

Quote from Albieg :

Russian roulette is a game too, but I would take it seriously. Much more than LFS. I'm not into that sort of stuff and I'm obviously taking it to the extreme. I don't judge other people's attitude towards gaming as long as they show some respect for fellow gamers. Someone wanted an answer and I gave it, and that's all. I like people acting responsibly when interacting with other people, and I like to be responsible myself. I try to be that way. Right now hitting the track with some muscled car would not be the right thing for me. As long as I am absent, I am the sole judge. When I'll be present it won't be that way. But at the moment, as a judge, I'm quite heavy handed with myself. That's what I mean by taking things seriously. And I see nothing wrong with it, as long as I don't harass other people.

If I have offended you, I do apologise on my behalf, but don't you think you have been taking this issue a bit too seriously, especially when you haven't even done more than 15 laps?

Do you really think you've been correct to me? I took the issue extremely personally because your actions went personal when I explained my point of view and you managed to disrupt the sense of what I wrote by editing a previous post.
Are you apologising or criticising me? Do you really think I've only done 15 laps because I've done 15 online laps on S2 servers? Are you really this naive? Do you really think I can be criticised for my way of using a software because of the way I legally use it? What the hell are you trying to say? My point of view is extremely clear and it's not the first time I say such things. Your actions and your question speak for yourself and are there for all to see. So are my words. If you're this much into a Socratic kind of debate, as you previously stated without mentioning Socrates, why don't you let people decide without trying to say I've done too few laps to take this issue this seriously? That's, at best, laughable. At worst, it's trolling. Stop it.

Quote from Albieg :

Do you really think you've been correct to me? I took the issue extremely personally because your actions went personal when I explained my point of view and you managed to disrupt the sense of what I wrote by editing a previous post.

I wasn't being personal mate. I believe you have taken this whole thing out of proportion. Calm down.

I payed you far more attention than you deserved and I'm not a mate of yours. Over.