Well, that's a trait of most religions, not only muslim jihadists. Just read your bible. That's why I think that religions should be abolished in general.
Well, that's a trait of most religions, not only muslim jihadists. Just read your bible. That's why I think that religions should be abolished in general.
No I know what the war in Iraq was for, and I can imagine what the war in Afghanistan was for.
I don't give a **** though do I? So in my case the terrorists have lost, because I couldn't be feeling less terrorised, frankly.
I think we've got bigger things to worry about, like the rise of the christian right in the USA. As I said above, they've got the world's most powerful army at their disposal and a history of nuking the opposition, and very little regard for what the world thinks of them or for the value of human life. And that is a much bigger worry than a few hundred angry arabs with basically no weapons at all.
You can bang on about sharia law all day but it's an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.
@ rattus How would you go about doing that? Kill all non-athiests? Think for a second how hypocritical not to mention bigoted you are being.
There are extremists of all religions, but in my opinion the most dangerous of these is jihadist Islam, and only because of the terrible things they would do to Western non-combatants if they were not foiled by various intelligence agencies. Also we have been very luckily this year starting with the Christmas day bombing attempt last year and the failed Times Square and Stockholm bombings.
again there is a huge difference between people who read bibles and open up a soup kitchen or donate billions of dollars to the needy and people who read their bibles and want to kill everybody. Christian churches (in America at least) are more known for the former than the latter. I'll say again and again that I don't have a problem with Islam, only Jihadists who I see as a more political faction than a religious one.
Kev if your main concern in this world is the Christian Right (which is vastly less powerful than you seem to imagine) then you're just wrong. When a bomb goes off in your subway or bus it will not be an american christian who put it there, it will be an extremest muslim. Guaranteed.
There are extremists of all religions, but in my opinion the most dangerous of these is jihadist Islam, and only because of the terrible things they would do to Western non-combatants if they were not foiled by various intelligence agencies. Also we have been very luckily this year starting with the Christmas day bombing attempt last year and the failed Times Square and Stockholm bombings.
again there is a huge difference between people who read bibles and open up a soup kitchen or donate billions of dollars to the needy and people who read their bibles and want to kill everybody. Christian churches (in America at least) are more known for the former than the latter. I'll say again and again that I don't have a problem with Islam, only Jihadists who I see as a more political faction than a religious one.
Kev if your main concern in this world is the Christian Right (which is vastly less powerful than you seem to imagine) then you're just wrong. When a bomb goes off in your subway or bus it will not be an american christian who put it there, it will be an extremest muslim. Guaranteed.
West is used to refer to England, France, Germany etc. East to places like parts of Russia, Poland etc. Middle East is obviously Iraq/Iran etc. Far East is China/Japan.
The general feeling is that the more East you go, the more 'problems' are found. Keep going East after Japan and you get to the biggest problem - America.
Somewhere along the lines Australasia got missed out on the East-West thing. Not sure what they'd be. They're not Western in location, and in many ways in culture. But they aren't Eastern (despite being East of Europe), and aren't like the East/Middle East/Far East in culture. I think they're left out for convenience!!!
But yes, America is the Deepest East, and all the worlds' problems seem to come, ultimately, from there.
The general feeling is that the more East you go, the more 'problems' are found. Keep going East after Japan and you get to the biggest problem - America.
Somewhere along the lines Australasia got missed out on the East-West thing. Not sure what they'd be. They're not Western in location, and in many ways in culture. But they aren't Eastern (despite being East of Europe), and aren't like the East/Middle East/Far East in culture. I think they're left out for convenience!!!
But yes, America is the Deepest East, and all the worlds' problems seem to come, ultimately, from there.
Wait what? Where did I say I want to kill people? It's just that religion is an outdated, flawed concept of explaining how the world works. It has had its use, but now it is time to move forward and abandon that concept.
But, and here's where I differ from religions, that's my opinion, and I don't have the intentions, nore the means of enforcing that on everybody.
I don't really get that sentiment or why seems to be so strong in Europe. The US didn't even have a standing army until we were forced to break our policy of European non-intervention in WWI to end the threat of German genocide. The British empire royally (lol) screwed over the East FAR before America even came into the picture. Britain conquered the world by malicious and deceitful means and oppressed it's colonies (including Palestine, sparking the Arab-Israeli Conflict) before America was even a nation.
How far back do you want to go? I say its those goddamn Italians.
You say we deserve what we get, I will be saying the same to you when European appeasement of Extremist Islam comes to bite you in the ass.
I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about now. The world - especially religious extremists of every religion - hates America. Not my opinion, that's how it is. Not necessarily individual Americans, but the country as a whole and what it stands for and the messages it projects to the world.
American Christianity seems to be the most blood-thirsty brand of that religion (although all religions are of course the same in principle) in the world.
American Christianity seems to be the most blood-thirsty brand of that religion (although all religions are of course the same in principle) in the world.
But they are a tiny, tiny group of people compared to rogue states that spend unparalleled proportions of their GDP preparing giant armies, like the USA for example.
Again it's a tiny fraction of the number of innocent Iraqi and Afghan civilians killed by US soldiers or caught in the crossfire of US-initiated wars in their homelands. Not to mention the numbers of Palestinians suffering because the USA refuses to endorse any action to bring Israel to justice for its war crimes.
And why would he put it there? Because the USA drove him to it.
20 years ago you'd be telling me it would be an Irishman, guaranteed, and you'd have been right. Who was funding those ****ers at the time anyway? Oh yeah, rich Americans.
They hate America in large part because of events that happened almost 100 years ago. What message does America give to the Middle East? That you shouldn't systematically kill your wives or daughters in the name of "honor"? Shouldn't all first world countries give them that message? Is the message that you should be free to decide how to live your life and who you allow to govern the people?
Honestly I'm torn about our continued involvement in the middle east. For one it is futile because no matter what, Middle Eastern politics will always be fueled by hate. It is the most simple kind of politics that dates back 2000 years or more and it is all they understand. If they can't hate America they will hate Israel. or Britain. or frickin Sweden of all places (over cartoons? seriously..). If we succeed in developing a democracy and leave, they will vote for a dictator. Its very frustrating.
On the other hand another reason the Middle East hates America so much is because of the aftermath of Cold War and all the devastating proxy fighting that happened in Afghanistan. We left them destroyed without any democracy or education systems then and it created Osama Bin Laden and Al Quada. We can't make the same mistakes again so we're stuck trying to build a house of cards.
I honestly don't know where to stand. I would like to see the military industrial complex dismantled and our involvement in the UN and the world bank/IMF ceased. I would like to see all of our troops home protecting us where we actually need them. That seems to be what Europe wants from us as well until they realize that the US won't be seen helping end genocide in Darfur, or death camps in Somalia, or the extermination of the Jews (again). Our intelligence agencies don't only protect America, they investigate terror threats world wide. The US would be condemned for no longer providing the VAST majority of the money in global monetary systems, which would ultimately foil the end goal of global socialism and a "fair" world. In protecting our own self-interests we shouldn't involve ourselves with global cap and trade/carbon credit schemes which are designed to bleed off money first world nations and distribute it amongst the third world. I think if the rest of the world doesn't want capitalism anymore than so be it, we'll keep it for ourselves be even richer (and our consumer products will cost even less) than ever before while Europe, in its quest for a fair world lowers its standard of living while trying to raise others, and so begin the bread lines. In short, America should expand the freedom and pursue the best interests of its people, and nothing else.
sorry for the rant but thats how I feel and obviously its a very confusing and disappointing time to be a human.
Honestly I'm torn about our continued involvement in the middle east. For one it is futile because no matter what, Middle Eastern politics will always be fueled by hate. It is the most simple kind of politics that dates back 2000 years or more and it is all they understand. If they can't hate America they will hate Israel. or Britain. or frickin Sweden of all places (over cartoons? seriously..). If we succeed in developing a democracy and leave, they will vote for a dictator. Its very frustrating.
On the other hand another reason the Middle East hates America so much is because of the aftermath of Cold War and all the devastating proxy fighting that happened in Afghanistan. We left them destroyed without any democracy or education systems then and it created Osama Bin Laden and Al Quada. We can't make the same mistakes again so we're stuck trying to build a house of cards.
I honestly don't know where to stand. I would like to see the military industrial complex dismantled and our involvement in the UN and the world bank/IMF ceased. I would like to see all of our troops home protecting us where we actually need them. That seems to be what Europe wants from us as well until they realize that the US won't be seen helping end genocide in Darfur, or death camps in Somalia, or the extermination of the Jews (again). Our intelligence agencies don't only protect America, they investigate terror threats world wide. The US would be condemned for no longer providing the VAST majority of the money in global monetary systems, which would ultimately foil the end goal of global socialism and a "fair" world. In protecting our own self-interests we shouldn't involve ourselves with global cap and trade/carbon credit schemes which are designed to bleed off money first world nations and distribute it amongst the third world. I think if the rest of the world doesn't want capitalism anymore than so be it, we'll keep it for ourselves be even richer (and our consumer products will cost even less) than ever before while Europe, in its quest for a fair world lowers its standard of living while trying to raise others, and so begin the bread lines. In short, America should expand the freedom and pursue the best interests of its people, and nothing else.
sorry for the rant but thats how I feel and obviously its a very confusing and disappointing time to be a human.
It's only a confusing time for people whose brains don't work properly. Like you with your weird obsession with radicalised Muslims and socialism (like they're connected?) and Intrepid who has decided nobody in the country except him understands macroeconomics and the television license fee is the root of all evil.
You two should go out for a meal or something.
You two should go out for a meal or something.
I'm definitely not the only one in the world who is worried about jihadist terrorist attacks, even if the attack isn't on myself personally, but on my people, who I value above all others.
I don't think radical muslims and socialism are related except that socialist countries are overly tolerant of their intolerant ways. Furthermore modern progressivism is designed to give retribution to the oppressed people of the world which often is perceived to include Middle Eastern countries and radicalized populations within. That ticks me off because if radicalized Muslims ruled the world, you would be the oppressed one, and they wouldn't give you shit tbh.
I don't think radical muslims and socialism are related except that socialist countries are overly tolerant of their intolerant ways. Furthermore modern progressivism is designed to give retribution to the oppressed people of the world which often is perceived to include Middle Eastern countries and radicalized populations within. That ticks me off because if radicalized Muslims ruled the world, you would be the oppressed one, and they wouldn't give you shit tbh.
'My People'? What an out of date phrase. Tolerant of intolerance? Isn't that a paradox situation?
My people makes you sound like some revolutionairy back in the 1940's when it was illegal to be black.
I must say that while this is outside of my....area, shall we say, I seem to be agreeing with Kev almost entirely. Pretty much spot on in everything he says (in this thread).
I must say that while this is outside of my....area, shall we say, I seem to be agreeing with Kev almost entirely. Pretty much spot on in everything he says (in this thread).
Who are "your people" anyway? What makes other people lesser, in your eyes? Do you feel they are dehumanised in some way? Is it this kind of thinking that leads you to turn a blind eye to their torture at the hands of your intelligence officals or their mass slaughter by your indiscriminate artillery and air attacks?
Unlike you I don't care to speculate what a world ruled by radicalised Muslims would look like, mostly because it will never happen because there simply aren't enough of them, but regardless: I don't make decisions about my treatment of people based on my perception of how they would treat me if the shoe was on the other foot. I just try to treat everybody kindly and fairly.
If that's the sort of dangerous socialist attitude you're railing against then I suppose whatever you have to say is going to fall on deaf ears.
Sorry for not being a globalist. When I say 'my people' I mean American citizens and while you may feel it is wrong to have your own country and fellow citizen's best interests at heart, I care about my country more than other countries. Its not even about dehumanization. When the people of my country prosper, my world is better.
What do you care about more, the 50 UK citizens who died and the 700 injured in the train bombings, or the four Pakistani men who killed themselves that day? If you say you care for them equally, I say you might actually be inhuman and I pity the people around you.
What do you care about more, the 50 UK citizens who died and the 700 injured in the train bombings, or the four Pakistani men who killed themselves that day? If you say you care for them equally, I say you might actually be inhuman and I pity the people around you.
how many civilian lives have islamistic terrorist attacks claimed over the past 10 years and how many civilian lives have bushs crusades in afghanistan and iraq claimed?
they hate us for our freedom? do you actually beleive that bullshit?
the message that the us sends to the world and any state it doesnt agree with in particular is that it can do whatever the hell it pleases with its political system its inhabitants its surrounding states etc (eg palestine vietnam iraq afghanistan iran and plenty smaller examples)
denmark... some education might help but im afraid its a lost cause in your case
which is their bloody right to do
You've been conditioned to care more about people who share your nationality - what other logic is there behind it? And it's easy to condition Americans to think like that because most of them never leave the USA and never see other cultures first hand. Partly because the USA is so vast and has such a variety of climates and landscapes, and partly because the exchange rate is usually not favourable.
Europeans by contrast tend to mix a little more with the people of the world, so they have a better perspective than you do. We're also not required to pledge allegiance to a flag every day in school throughout our entire childhood like you are, so we're not as brainwashed as you.
The four men who carried out the attacks were from Beeston in Leeds, which is only a couple of miles from where I grew up. The people they killed were mostly from London, which is a couple of hundred miles from where I grew up. By your logic I should be supporting the bombers because they are "my people".
iBOOM 4 LYFE DAWG!!
I don't feel like messing with quotes so: in order
1. War isn't a numbers game, and if it is, we're winning.
2. I'm sure you've read at least one post of mine that goes beyond "they hate us for bein' free" Its not just the US that tries to hold the rudder of world politics towards order and a semblance of decency (which is pretty much all humans are capable of achieving) it is everyone in every nation that doesn't want to die in a suicide bombing. We're just the biggest target and can take whatever they dish out because, well, we are the most powerful nation in the world. I get the feeling your idea of a free and fair world would be one where all the power and money of the developed world is simply averaged out to every person on the planet so we can all live in equally deep piles of shit somewhere in Somalia.
3.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WO ... /sweden.terror/index.html
4. I suppose it is. Why do they always choose tyrannical dictators though, of all things?
so you care about the place encircled by arbitrary lines in the sand more than about other places encircles by equally arbitrary lines because you arbitrarily happened to be born in that particular place?
if you cant see how this makes no sense whatsoever youre clearly beyond help
your wars have killed more us citizens (ie soldiers) than the 911 attacks have and are still going on with casualties constantly on the rise
i think youre losing
what exactly is your idea of a free world? one where you get fat from mcdonalds while calling your equally fat girlfriend on your iphone produced by practically slave labour while the other 90% of the world population dont have the first idea how to find enough food to survive another day?
why did the american vote a guy president whos barely intelligent enough to find his own arse to whipe it? twice even!
Thats true enough, but its not as terrible and ignorant as you think. Americans care more for their neighbors in town than their neighbors across the border. I've spent a year and a half in total in Switzerland, France, and Spain, which is more than most Americans will experience and while I enjoyed experiencing new cultures in those places as much as I do on this forum, I still care about Americans more because they are....my people! jeez its not that bad to say.
What has caused Europeans to despise their national identities so much that simply pledging allegiance to your country sounds like a Hitler youth rally to you?
Don't split hairs with me. It's not witty.
You seem to have a view that the root of Islamist atrocities is that the radicals object to western society's culture. That we don't share their ideology and so they must bomb us. This is simply not the case and I'm pretty sure you understand that in some deeper part of your brain that doesn't get to control what you type.
Take it from an Englishman - we're pretty used to this sort of thing due to what some Republicans in Northern Ireland consider to be our occupation of Irish land (and they are welcome to that opinion, I don't live there so my opinion is less well-developed, but there are lots of people who live there who consider themselves British): You will never stop terrorism with your armed forces.
If I paid people to go to your house every day to **** you up, do you think you would decide that I must be right and you should be punished, or would you spend your spare time plotting ways to **** me up?
That's the situation.
nothing we dont despise our identity one bit... in fact right now youre doing a great service in making us love being european
were just not deluded enough to belive that living in a certain nation is in any way a defining character trait... particularly if wer talking about a land as gigantic as the us
and youre a prime example of what kind of twisted world view indoctrination at such young age every day in school can and will lead to
It's ignorant and stupid.
Example: Shotglass, above, is German. In recent history my country and his country have spent millions and thrown countless sorry humans to their gruesome deaths over their squabbles related to imperialism and politics and idealism. And yet - while I've never met the guy - I'm confident I would find him more agreeable than many (most, maybe) of the people who grew up on the same streets as me.
Do you think this is a preposterous situation?
European nations are old. We've seen countless empires rise and fall, borders shift, alliances shift, we've seen the money and the power move around for centuries, millenia even. We know that this stuff isn't really important.
The USA in contrast has only existed for a couple of hundred years and currently enjoys a position of power through the same means we all used - slavery and taking resource-rich land from indigenous people with weaker military. It won't last, it never does, we know because we've seen it many, many times. The oldest structure in my town was built by the Romans in approx. 200AD, shortly before their empire collapsed and they withdrew their occupation. Probably before any humans knew your continent existed.
It's a matter of perspective. Wisdom comes with age.
Here I thought our power came from either inventing or mass producing almost every major scientific advancement for the last 100 years. And slavery for the hundred before that. 
I have to agree that the US republic is not long for this world. Democracies usually don't last this long and turn sour quickly once the citizens start voting to destroy the very delicate balance between Makers and Takers. We are getting to the point in the US there will be more people taking money out of the economy than contributing to it, and our economy will collapse. Get ready to ignite but Beck did a very interesting historical comparison between the fall of Rome and the decline of the US. It always astounds me how history is not linear at all but cyclical.
I have to agree that the US republic is not long for this world. Democracies usually don't last this long and turn sour quickly once the citizens start voting to destroy the very delicate balance between Makers and Takers. We are getting to the point in the US there will be more people taking money out of the economy than contributing to it, and our economy will collapse. Get ready to ignite but Beck did a very interesting historical comparison between the fall of Rome and the decline of the US. It always astounds me how history is not linear at all but cyclical.
Must have iPhone app
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