Where are itcc servers?
Round 5: Race Discussion
#2
- dekojester
Currently down as a result of the 500servers issues - I'll have to sort one out before Sunday.
I have a single server on another provider, and will set it up for iTCC AFTER the GTAL finale.
I'll ask it here since there's no round 5 thread yet...
Am I allowed miss shootout considering the poor turn-up rate we've had so far? There is a chance it won't fit so well in my schedule.
E: Nevermind, I should be able to do it.
Am I allowed miss shootout considering the poor turn-up rate we've had so far? There is a chance it won't fit so well in my schedule.
E: Nevermind, I should be able to do it.
#4
- scotty2888
Seing as there is no R5 thread yet, whats the server details now?
Server details are the same as before, had GTAL yesterday and I've been watching BTCC today so passwords will be sent out soon 
NDR.iTCC 2011 is the name, or just find me.
Regards the shootout, it will still be happening, but unless there are more than 21 drivers trying to make it in, then it's basically just an extended bit of practice.
NDR.iTCC 2011 is the name, or just find me.Regards the shootout, it will still be happening, but unless there are more than 21 drivers trying to make it in, then it's basically just an extended bit of practice.
#6
- scotty2888
Been watching the epicness of BTCC to myself. 
Password for the reserve shootout sent out 
Come join us for the final round!
Come join us for the final round!Stream live and running http://www.livestream.com/tommy24
All i can to say that is, you got f**ked out of that Jarno, in my view you win this championship. You got teamed up on, but to an apsolute extreme. What Oscar did was stupid, and if it wasnt for that you would have won. You was the best all season long, so well done to you!
Yeah, I saw team orders there, for example Isaac went wide and blocked the rest for Simon.
Simon, that's not very Prost-like, Alain needs nobody to win a champ!
Sorry to Jonaitis, I happened to him after Teien happened to me before I happened to Oscar
New rule to yourself: Do not get distracted by Oscar.
Would have been the first time for me scoring double points, instead Scotty got a point
Simon, that's not very Prost-like, Alain needs nobody to win a champ!
Sorry to Jonaitis, I happened to him after Teien happened to me before I happened to Oscar
New rule to yourself: Do not get distracted by Oscar.
Would have been the first time for me scoring double points, instead Scotty got a point
I decided to download and review race 3 after hearing of strange inter-team tactics. What can I say? It was a farce of such magnitude that I can't form a statement to do it justice. The best I can do is objectively restate the events here for anyone who didn't see it.
Phil Diaz initiated the chaos by taking out both championship contenders in a moment of madness. Laps later on a SC restart, Oscar Hardwick (SR) intentionally slowed in front of Jarno, pushing him seconds down, for which he was punished with a DT penalty. Jarno then drafted him on the back straight, to which Oscar responded by weaving right, left, right, left, right (in to Jarno's path, causing contact), then made contact with Jarno twice as he finally got past. As the race went on, Isaac got to the front and slowed by seconds per lap to back the field up for Simon. Sampsa (SR) was too far ahead of Simon on the back straight for a draft, so slowed by several car lengths to intentionally let him pass. Later, as Jarno came to pass Sampsa, he out-braked himself and crashed in to Jarno. The following lap on the back straight Sampsa repeated his teammates tactics of swerving in to Jarno's path as he drafted him, causing intentional contact. Phil, later ahead of Simon moved across the straight and lifted off to give Simon a draft by, also allowing him to escape a group of cars. Then finally Isaac let Simon through by moving off the line and slowing down in turn 1.
With inex and SR apparently working as one unit to get Simon to the front, over 1/3 of the grid was conspiring in deciding the championship outcome. It is a compliment to Jarno's ability that it took that much effort to mount a challenge against him. In summary, Joe is right. Jarno is the true champion and I am still shocked by what I have witnessed.
Phil Diaz initiated the chaos by taking out both championship contenders in a moment of madness. Laps later on a SC restart, Oscar Hardwick (SR) intentionally slowed in front of Jarno, pushing him seconds down, for which he was punished with a DT penalty. Jarno then drafted him on the back straight, to which Oscar responded by weaving right, left, right, left, right (in to Jarno's path, causing contact), then made contact with Jarno twice as he finally got past. As the race went on, Isaac got to the front and slowed by seconds per lap to back the field up for Simon. Sampsa (SR) was too far ahead of Simon on the back straight for a draft, so slowed by several car lengths to intentionally let him pass. Later, as Jarno came to pass Sampsa, he out-braked himself and crashed in to Jarno. The following lap on the back straight Sampsa repeated his teammates tactics of swerving in to Jarno's path as he drafted him, causing intentional contact. Phil, later ahead of Simon moved across the straight and lifted off to give Simon a draft by, also allowing him to escape a group of cars. Then finally Isaac let Simon through by moving off the line and slowing down in turn 1.
With inex and SR apparently working as one unit to get Simon to the front, over 1/3 of the grid was conspiring in deciding the championship outcome. It is a compliment to Jarno's ability that it took that much effort to mount a challenge against him. In summary, Joe is right. Jarno is the true champion and I am still shocked by what I have witnessed.
Lap 1 and SC stuff is automatically investigated by the admins but if there is anything else that the drivers feel that should be looked at over the 3 races then we welcome any protests.
Look at the replay from last year's final round and you will see the irony in this all.
Oh and that "big crash I caused" is rather interesting. Yes, I did go onto the grass, anyone with eyes could see that. But I did NOT cause that accident. Proof here.
-------------------------------------------------
Okay, I did the cival approach and watched all the replays from all 3 races to now take your approach.
Race 1
Lap 1 - Hits Isaac into Mikko causing Mikko to roll.
Lap 7 - Blocks 2 cars onto the grass down the straight. (similar to what happened to me)
Race 2
Lap 8 - Spins Oscar down the straight.
Race 3
Lap 4 - Scott Moore over-aggressive accident.
Proof here.
Now I know you are trying to protect your single angel, but attacking 2/3rds of the field isn't right. Our goal (ineX, not SR) was to have Simon win all 3 races. We didn't hit anyone off (Isaac did incidently hit Yann and apologized for it already), we didn't do anything ridiculous to harm anyone else's race. Calling us out for letting team-mates easily pass is just being nit-picky and borderline absurd IMO.
Now obviously Oscar was upset that he was taken out in race 2 down a straight of all things. So him slowing Jarno actually somewhat makes sense when seeing race 2. Also, blaming Sampsa for what? For defending his position in a race? He did no ridiculous blocking at all. He defended the inside in T1. He also defended the inside going into the second to final corner. Surely Jarno blocking two cars into the grass in Race 1 is worse than that?
Sorry that Jarno didn't win the Championship, he did well all season, but we didn't control his outcome in this final round.
I said 1/3 of the field conspired to decide the outcome.
Conspired: 2. (of events or circumstances) Seem to be working together to bring about a particular result, typically to someone's detriment.
An act of conspiring:
Exactly. Just how 3id wants to win every round of DWC. Or how we would like to win every round of MoE.
Thank you for agreeing with me, I'm glad we were able to sort this out in a reasonable manner.
Thank you for agreeing with me, I'm glad we were able to sort this out in a reasonable manner.
First incident wasnt my fault because someone divebomb onto me. Isaac or mikko.
Second i did change driving line ONCE. Those people overtook me from grass.
Third was my fault but my car got stucked in oscars car AFTER he had moved left which i couldnt react.
And fourth incident i had anough room to be inside but then scott turns a bit more inside (or brakes so that rear lifts up) and we collide.
My explanations. I hoped fair fight, didnt get that. No hard feelings.
Having just now looked at the replay, the only bad thing was Oscar being his typical dickhead self. No need, (but anyone that knows him knows it's not unexpected... he has issues) and I'm shocked that the race admin team didn't re yellow it and ban him there and then. Team tactics are interesting, when Cattell was on his charge back up the field it wasn't even an ineX car backing up the field. Oh and Jarno had it in his pocket until he made a fateful error on the last lap, so in the grand scheme of things that is what cost him the title at the end of the day along with his last lap spin at FE3. Little things, little things.
I don't really want to get involved in that argument but as a driver of the series, external observer and somehow collateral victim of that farce, I feel obliged to react.
You're right on that point. Though team-tactics(or team-orders) have ever been and will ever be a controversial point in motorsports, NDR doesn't have any regulations on the matter(or team-orders if you prefer). We therefore can conclude they are tolerated, as long as you do not do anything else forbidden. Especially since they are allowed in BTCC, and this series is mainly based on BTCC format(etc) wise.
Now it seems to be clear that it certainly wasn't the only questionable thing you did in this race. Isaac clearly slowed down the leading pack in order to let Simon catch it, and therefore influenced the general outcome of the race.
Just some stats: Isaac was on low 1:12s at the beginning of the race, in order to catch Koskinen in the lead(1:12:44 lap 3, 12:35 lap 4, 12:44 lap 5). Then, after passing him, he began to slow down from 1 to 2 seconds to his average pace, while having no apparent damage or whatever, in order to reduce the gap between him and the rest of the leading group(13:78 lap 7, 14:99 lap 8, 14:23 lap 9). Once the Safety Car came and pulled in, he re-accelerated slightly but still maintained himself 1 second away from his optimal pace, in order to keep the leading group tight enough(13:32 lap 12, 1: 13 :73 lap 13).
If you still think that's not enough evidences... Even Isaac admitted this on our forums after the race:
Okay, some might think this falls under regular team-tactics too... But since Isaac's blocking directly led into the incident I reported here, his behaviour may fall under this rule of the NDR Sporting Code:
Isaac was 1 to 2 seconds off his optimal pace on purpose, this is a clear case of malitious/inappropriate slowing.
I'm not saying he punted me off on purpose or whatever, but by slowing everyone down like this, he gave me the chance of overtaking him, which I would have never had if he took his optimal pace and pulled away. We can therefore conclude that Isaac did not only sent me off track, but also made this incident happen because of his slowing down tactics, and I hope the admins will take this into consideration while reviewing it.
Err, you seem to forget you took off Jonaitis at race 3 lap 8(10:10 on the replay). And Joe's revenge wrecking on Osku in round 4 is forgotten as well?
And no, it is not okay to take people off, apologise and think everything's sorted. Admitting your acts is a first good step, fully assuming their consequences is another.
I personally can't be bothered going through a one year old replay with no further references than random insinuations. But all I can say is that I have trouble believing that anything huge happened, since I see no trace of this in the protest thread nor in the post-race discussion thread.
I'll let everyone judge in detail of those incident by themselves, we all know it is useless to argue on that since we all have our biaised opinions on every driver of the field.
However, I'll just give my own general opinion: you took one relevant incident(race 2) and added 3 unclear/possible racing incidents to make up the number.
But what Jarno could've done himself is no excuse whatsoever for your own behaviour, it is even one of the cardinal rule in simracing, so I don't know why you are trying to bring this.
Also, since when are pictures enough evidences to judge incidents?
About Oscar: Making justice by yourself is a big, huge, enormous no-go in simracing, and I sincerly hope he will get a strong penalty for this.
About Sampsa: Well, honestly I see a difference between one straight, linear and predictable defensive move, and weaving on a whole straight like a drunk nutter who can't ever hold his wheel properly. That's all I will say about this. I will let everyone else judge of the incident by themselves once again. Jarno's "incident" can be found in race 1, lap 7, timecode 8:10. Sampsa's can be found in race 3, lap 17, timecode 21:00.
Also, should I mention that they both let the door wide open and let Simon pass very easily at race 3. Clearly this show they had a small preference considering the outcome of the championship, no? If not, why didn't they do the same with Jarno?
I don't want to say there was an "ineX-SR" alliance there, first of all because they are basically 2 drivers out of a 40-50 men team. Then because Jonaitis was obviously out of the agreement, considering the way he has been taken off in race 3. I can't accuse anyone of making a general agreement on trying to make Jarno's task more difficult than it is. We'll never have any proof of what was going on behind the scenes that day, unless someone can come up with TS recordings or whatever. So better leave it I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not posting this on the anger of being taken off from the lead. I more or less knew that something similar was most likely going to happen while getting through. I can easily imagine Isaac didn't do anything on purpose, his usual far from sensible driving make me think he probably would have done the same thing whatever the situation was. I am far from caring so much about positions considering the iTCC's shape at the end of the season, but I still wanted to give my best and end the season on an high, it is true. But if this happened in a random plain race, I probably wouldn't have bothered with a protest or anything.
In fact I am mainly pissed off for having been a random pawn within a much larger game. I came in your way directly because of your general tactics. Then I got eliminated - no matter if this was done on purpose or not - when I became too disturbing for you to lead the general plan in optimal conditions. Simple as. And this, I can't accept.
____
Obviously I am very disappointed the season had to end on such a pathetic note. But I would still like to thank the admins, and the few competitors that gave their best until the end, and kept it clean all the way. Especially Runas, with whom I had some great battles from round 1 to 5.
I sincerly hope that despite all the controversy and the absolutely ridicuous interrest drops, there will be a 2012 season. If there will, I also hope to return for a 4th year if I can.
You're right on that point. Though team-tactics(or team-orders) have ever been and will ever be a controversial point in motorsports, NDR doesn't have any regulations on the matter(or team-orders if you prefer). We therefore can conclude they are tolerated, as long as you do not do anything else forbidden. Especially since they are allowed in BTCC, and this series is mainly based on BTCC format(etc) wise.
Now it seems to be clear that it certainly wasn't the only questionable thing you did in this race. Isaac clearly slowed down the leading pack in order to let Simon catch it, and therefore influenced the general outcome of the race.
Just some stats: Isaac was on low 1:12s at the beginning of the race, in order to catch Koskinen in the lead(1:12:44 lap 3, 12:35 lap 4, 12:44 lap 5). Then, after passing him, he began to slow down from 1 to 2 seconds to his average pace, while having no apparent damage or whatever, in order to reduce the gap between him and the rest of the leading group(13:78 lap 7, 14:99 lap 8, 14:23 lap 9). Once the Safety Car came and pulled in, he re-accelerated slightly but still maintained himself 1 second away from his optimal pace, in order to keep the leading group tight enough(13:32 lap 12, 1: 13 :73 lap 13).
If you still think that's not enough evidences... Even Isaac admitted this on our forums after the race:
Okay, some might think this falls under regular team-tactics too... But since Isaac's blocking directly led into the incident I reported here, his behaviour may fall under this rule of the NDR Sporting Code:
Isaac was 1 to 2 seconds off his optimal pace on purpose, this is a clear case of malitious/inappropriate slowing.
I'm not saying he punted me off on purpose or whatever, but by slowing everyone down like this, he gave me the chance of overtaking him, which I would have never had if he took his optimal pace and pulled away. We can therefore conclude that Isaac did not only sent me off track, but also made this incident happen because of his slowing down tactics, and I hope the admins will take this into consideration while reviewing it.
Err, you seem to forget you took off Jonaitis at race 3 lap 8(10:10 on the replay). And Joe's revenge wrecking on Osku in round 4 is forgotten as well?
And no, it is not okay to take people off, apologise and think everything's sorted. Admitting your acts is a first good step, fully assuming their consequences is another.
I personally can't be bothered going through a one year old replay with no further references than random insinuations. But all I can say is that I have trouble believing that anything huge happened, since I see no trace of this in the protest thread nor in the post-race discussion thread.
I'll let everyone judge in detail of those incident by themselves, we all know it is useless to argue on that since we all have our biaised opinions on every driver of the field.
However, I'll just give my own general opinion: you took one relevant incident(race 2) and added 3 unclear/possible racing incidents to make up the number.
But what Jarno could've done himself is no excuse whatsoever for your own behaviour, it is even one of the cardinal rule in simracing, so I don't know why you are trying to bring this.
Also, since when are pictures enough evidences to judge incidents?
About Oscar: Making justice by yourself is a big, huge, enormous no-go in simracing, and I sincerly hope he will get a strong penalty for this.
About Sampsa: Well, honestly I see a difference between one straight, linear and predictable defensive move, and weaving on a whole straight like a drunk nutter who can't ever hold his wheel properly. That's all I will say about this. I will let everyone else judge of the incident by themselves once again. Jarno's "incident" can be found in race 1, lap 7, timecode 8:10. Sampsa's can be found in race 3, lap 17, timecode 21:00.
Also, should I mention that they both let the door wide open and let Simon pass very easily at race 3. Clearly this show they had a small preference considering the outcome of the championship, no? If not, why didn't they do the same with Jarno?
I don't want to say there was an "ineX-SR" alliance there, first of all because they are basically 2 drivers out of a 40-50 men team. Then because Jonaitis was obviously out of the agreement, considering the way he has been taken off in race 3. I can't accuse anyone of making a general agreement on trying to make Jarno's task more difficult than it is. We'll never have any proof of what was going on behind the scenes that day, unless someone can come up with TS recordings or whatever. So better leave it I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not posting this on the anger of being taken off from the lead. I more or less knew that something similar was most likely going to happen while getting through. I can easily imagine Isaac didn't do anything on purpose, his usual far from sensible driving make me think he probably would have done the same thing whatever the situation was. I am far from caring so much about positions considering the iTCC's shape at the end of the season, but I still wanted to give my best and end the season on an high, it is true. But if this happened in a random plain race, I probably wouldn't have bothered with a protest or anything.
In fact I am mainly pissed off for having been a random pawn within a much larger game. I came in your way directly because of your general tactics. Then I got eliminated - no matter if this was done on purpose or not - when I became too disturbing for you to lead the general plan in optimal conditions. Simple as. And this, I can't accept.
____
Obviously I am very disappointed the season had to end on such a pathetic note. But I would still like to thank the admins, and the few competitors that gave their best until the end, and kept it clean all the way. Especially Runas, with whom I had some great battles from round 1 to 5.
I sincerly hope that despite all the controversy and the absolutely ridicuous interrest drops, there will be a 2012 season. If there will, I also hope to return for a 4th year if I can.
There is nothing wrong with backing the pack up, it's been done as far back as season 1. There was no braking on straights or in corners, it was just taking it a bit easier. Nothing wrong with that. In fact Isaac got a run on you guys after the Jundt SC and then went off. Also at the start Koskinen was the one backing up the field with his poor pace. Isaac was running 13s then and still pulling away.
Race 1 lap 1 as well for the strongest bit of irony.
Yann: You are not understanding the point of my post.
Yann: You are not understanding the point of my post.
You disagreed with my post, then agreed with it when supplied with a definition.
I do not agree with you. Essentially your line of discussion is: Any red cars that have ever had an incident, including before Jarno was in 3id, make any future incidents aimed at red cars more entertaining / justified. I appreciate that for a simplistic mind, it might be useful to identify things by bright colours like this, but we prefer to address individual incidents as they arise.
This does not impact the credibility of the criticism that has been made.
This tournament I really like it, because almost all the action. Where the action is, I am able to empathize and to run fast and aggressive, but also clean. I experienced a lot of good moments, it was pretty much fighting. It's one of those tournaments, which encourages me to race.
The season ends, so I would like to thank the founders of this great tournament, the NDR team and everyone that has contributed, as well participants. Special thanks to Yann for nice clean races, and Tommy, who has own initiative and began to broadcast the tournament.
ALSO, congratz the iTCC 2011 winner. I think that this season winners are two guyz - Simon and Jarno.
The season ends, so I would like to thank the founders of this great tournament, the NDR team and everyone that has contributed, as well participants. Special thanks to Yann for nice clean races, and Tommy, who has own initiative and began to broadcast the tournament.
ALSO, congratz the iTCC 2011 winner. I think that this season winners are two guyz - Simon and Jarno.
What's everyone crying about ?
Yann took himself out, and is angry at isaac for it.. and trying to redeem himself by quoting the sporting code about "inappropriate slowing" which I see none of in the replay.
And my3id's angry because 6/14 cars were working to get simon to win? If my3id were so bothered, maybe they should have had more than 1 car
?Yann took himself out, and is angry at isaac for it.. and trying to redeem himself by quoting the sporting code about "inappropriate slowing" which I see none of in the replay.
And my3id's angry because 6/14 cars were working to get simon to win? If my3id were so bothered, maybe they should have had more than 1 car
Thanks for informing. You want now hear something about your driving?
I know I moved in the straight and I'm sorry for the split second decision causing what happened, but it didnt affect your race. I havent had a protest made against me all season so to call me a drunk nutter is extremely harsh and compared to some other things that have happened in itcc this season which haven't been reported that were worse than this.
A driver can move off for one guy, and defend against another one. wow! Like I havent done that in like... since I started sim-racing. Im being more nice with friends than enemies. Weird, huh?
In F1 last season, team-orders were disallowed, which was the main reason why people hated it being done. In iTCC, team-orders are allowed, as there are no rules against it. Oh... And the difference here is that in F1, the teams tell their driver to back up, while in ineX, the management does not tell the drivers what to do - there is no need to, as they are extremely good team-mates, backing each other up. A driver letting another driver through a bit easy, is not "team-orders" (as the team does not order him to let the car behind by) as you refer to. It is basicly a driver letting another driver passing more easily. Is it not forbidden to stop pushing 110% if you're leading with 30 sec in an endurance race with 20 mins to go as well? There is nothing wrong with driving 1 sec slower a lap when in the lead, there is nothing in the rules against it. It is simply called team-work, which ineX seemed to have most of this weekend. Of course you try to work with your team to get a championship title. Of course you let your team-mate by if that gives him a chance to win the title, and of course you try to help him as much as you can, to make him do just that - to take the title. It is called team-work, something I must say ineX were really good at this round. The bumpdrafting worked perfect, they were patient, and they never gave up. And for that, I'd like to congratulate the team for the brilliant work they put in.
I do not like at all what Oscar did, and I am not talking about SR here. But still... taking a personal example: I would let Kenneth O'Keefe by anytime if he was faster. I would defended as **** if Runas had tried (no hard feelings, Runas Had to get an example ). There is nothing wrong with that, really. Its part of racing. Just like in F1 in the last race last year.
Now, we can also go through the times when Simon was driven off in earlier rounds, but there is no point in doing that. What has happend happend, and ineX did their best to get as many points as possible. They made it, and Simon is the champion so far.
Would you also blame the Toyota(???) car that let Hamilton through in the last race in F1 a few years ago for letting Hamilton through, as he was "slowing a lot, and let Hamilton pass easily", which led to Hamilton winning the champ?
Tough luck for Jarno, I feel with you
In F1 last season, team-orders were disallowed, which was the main reason why people hated it being done. In iTCC, team-orders are allowed, as there are no rules against it. Oh... And the difference here is that in F1, the teams tell their driver to back up, while in ineX, the management does not tell the drivers what to do - there is no need to, as they are extremely good team-mates, backing each other up. A driver letting another driver through a bit easy, is not "team-orders" (as the team does not order him to let the car behind by) as you refer to. It is basicly a driver letting another driver passing more easily. Is it not forbidden to stop pushing 110% if you're leading with 30 sec in an endurance race with 20 mins to go as well? There is nothing wrong with driving 1 sec slower a lap when in the lead, there is nothing in the rules against it. It is simply called team-work, which ineX seemed to have most of this weekend. Of course you try to work with your team to get a championship title. Of course you let your team-mate by if that gives him a chance to win the title, and of course you try to help him as much as you can, to make him do just that - to take the title. It is called team-work, something I must say ineX were really good at this round. The bumpdrafting worked perfect, they were patient, and they never gave up. And for that, I'd like to congratulate the team for the brilliant work they put in.
I do not like at all what Oscar did, and I am not talking about SR here. But still... taking a personal example: I would let Kenneth O'Keefe by anytime if he was faster. I would defended as **** if Runas had tried (no hard feelings, Runas
Had to get an example ). There is nothing wrong with that, really. Its part of racing. Just like in F1 in the last race last year.Now, we can also go through the times when Simon was driven off in earlier rounds, but there is no point in doing that. What has happend happend, and ineX did their best to get as many points as possible. They made it, and Simon is the champion so far.
Would you also blame the Toyota(???) car that let Hamilton through in the last race in F1 a few years ago for letting Hamilton through, as he was "slowing a lot, and let Hamilton pass easily", which led to Hamilton winning the champ?
Tough luck for Jarno, I feel with you
Round 5: Race Discussion
(63 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG