Personalise and Personality are two different things. LFS has personality in bucket loads. You feel like your driving something that is cherished and loved. Maybe because of the small development team you get that extra feeling.

Someone in the village shop said they'd seen someone at College that look suspiciously like me too. I suspect I've been cloned, and there are several me's (of different ages) going round causing havok.

Quite why they'd pick me for cloning I don't know - I'm hardly a type specimen.

Quote from Intrepid :

Personalise and Personality are two different things. LFS has personality in bucket loads. You feel like your driving something that is cherished and loved. Maybe because of the small development team you get that extra feeling.

Yep, lfs still is the only sim for me that feels a bit different than other games, in a good way and i have no clue why. That is what he meant by personality, not how much you cancustomize your car.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Someone in the village shop said they'd seen someone at College that look suspiciously like me too. I suspect I've been cloned, and there are several me's (of different ages) going round causing havok.

Quite why they'd pick me for cloning I don't know - I'm hardly a type specimen.

Being a robotically created, race car driving, jaffa cake eating (isn't it about time you tried to beat your record) superhuman, there can be no doubt there must be more than one you to sustain the equilibrium of peace in the universe.

Equally, there must be Evil versions of me to balance The Force. A version of me with frickkin' laser beams and a cat.

This thread.....
Fortunately it's easy enough to search for posts by scawen, so you don't have to sift through all this nonsense and spam. To suggest that scawen should delete every post except his own would be unfair to the one in fifty that contributes, but I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Edit; I clearly meant the other thread d'oh....

Quote from lemming77 :

Top Gear isn't better than Fifth Gear in every way. It's not that simple.

This is wrong, it actually is just that simple

Quote from tristancliffe :

Equally, there must be Evil versions of me to balance The Force. A version of me with frickkin' laser beams and a cat.

If you kill off your other selvs you will become "The One" Just like Jet Lee!

Quote from Juzaa :

This is wrong, it actually is just that simple

No. You forget the Lady
Also, 5th gear has a few actual racing drivers, while Top Gear has.. a fat man, a small man and a slow man.
..Apart from these, you are correct of course.

This is not realistic ?

rFactor: Balance the effect by making something else unrealistic as well. (followed by 1G+ telemetry records)

LFS: You buy the game AS IS. Play or not. (followed by 10 pages+ spam)




BTW, how the FFB feels in rFactor completely depends on the mod (and RealFeel, if you use it).

Quote from Keling :

BTW, how the FFB feels in rFactor completely depends on the mod (and RealFeel, if you use it).

You'd likely get the same thing in LFS if it allowed user generated content. Vehicle physics should be left to those who know what they are doing, or those who are serious about learning it.

Clearly that didn't apply to anyone who worked on the physics of Ferrari Challenge on the PS3.

Quote from didomusicuk :

So what kind of FOV would you recommend? I play at 1440 x 900, full-screen. I usually drive from interior view, or from "front wheels-only" view.

Resolution doesn't matter. To calculate realistic FOV, you need to know the width of the monitor and distance between your eyes and the monitor.

With realistic FOV, you see the same amount of stuff you would see if you were sitting in a car with a window same size and equally placed than you monitor. Which means, you won't see a s*it with single 21" 16:19.

I have 3 x 22"16:9, and distance is 50cm. My FOV is 160degrees. And that's still way too much, to be totally realistic. I think (don't quite remember for sure) realistic FOV for my setup would be 120degrees, i calculated it once.

That means that realistic setup with single 22" 16:9 watched from 50cm would be 40degrees.


Anyway I think 90degrees is way too much, you'll totally lose the sense of speed. You should set it as low as you possible can live with.

mdmx, you are right about realistic FOV, but I think you have one screen FOV backwards. If the FOV is really small, then the sense of speed is not very good. To get a sense of speed, the FOV needs to be as high as possible (for one monitor) so that the peripheral vision can see more of what is going by on the sides ie. trees, fence, wind turbines etc. Therefore, if the FOV is small, then less can be seen in peripheral vision, making sense of speed diminish.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Clearly that didn't apply to anyone who worked on the physics of Ferrari Challenge on the PS3.

Don't know much about that game. Any details ?

It's crap. All you need to know. Graphics are ok but handling is dreadful, I've steering better handling canal boats.

Quote from legoflamb :

mdmx, you are right about realistic FOV, but I think you have one screen FOV backwards. If the FOV is really small, then the sense of speed is not very good. To get a sense of speed, the FOV needs to be as high as possible (for one monitor) so that the peripheral vision can see more of what is going by on the sides ie. trees, fence, wind turbines etc. Therefore, if the FOV is small, then less can be seen in peripheral vision, making sense of speed diminish.

I think he is referring to the phenomenon of the car feeling very slow when you have the FOV set at a realistic setting. The reality is that when you are driving in a real car, things do not pass by very quickly at all. It is the g-forces that make you feel the speed, and that is something that is difficult to simulate.

In order to compensate you have to reduce the FOV to give you a sense of speed.

I have quite a large FOV with my setup (27" monitor with 2x24" on the sides). I can set this up so that the FOV is completely realistic but for me there is no sense of speed at all, so I have to reduce the FOV down again.

Quote from djfatrod :

I think he is referring to the phenomenon of the car feeling very slow when you have the FOV set at a realistic setting. The reality is that when you are driving in a real car, things do not pass by very quickly at all. It is the g-forces that make you feel the speed, and that is something that is difficult to simulate.

In order to compensate you have to reduce the FOV to give you a sense of speed.

I have quite a large FOV with my setup (27" monitor with 2x24" on the sides). I can set this up so that the FOV is completely realistic but for me there is no sense of speed at all, so I have to reduce the FOV down again.

I don't know how you consider a low fov to be better at translating sense of speed than a higher fov.

Fov is like a zoom lens. A really low fov only shows things that are far off and in the centre of a higher fov image. With low fov these things fill the screen and as such look closer. Since the car travels at the same speed in the game no matter what the fov, if the straight appears shorter but takes the same time to reach the end of, of course it will seem slower.

Sense of speed in a car is nothing to do with g force. A constant 10mph gives exactly the same g force as a constant 200mph. Bumps and noise contribute, but the principle sense is still vision and the easier it is to see the objects that are passing close to you, the greater the impression of speed. Which is why a 40mph indoor go kart can feel very fast indeed.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Equally, there must be Evil versions of me to balance The Force. A version of me with frickkin' laser beams and a cat.

<shudder> Evil!!!

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Clearly that didn't apply to anyone who worked on the physics of Ferrari Challenge on the PS3.

I didn't work on that one. That was the ugliness I started off with though, I ended up with what you've got in NASCAR 2011.

Quote from Bob Smith :

I didn't work on that one. That was the ugliness I started off with though, I ended up with what you've got in NASCAR 2011.

Which feels quite decent and fun. Just if only the wheel support was more logical.

Quote from lemming77 :

I've met Formula Ford drivers who'd say the same thing about rFactor, and I've heard drivers say the same thing about iRacing. There's inevitably people who would say the same thing about NetKar and Richard Burns Rally aswell. There's no point in going into the "he's a racing driver, so he obviously knows best" thing, because we could be here all day going through driver after driver, and not get anywhere.

Unless said race driver has extensive sim experience -- like Tristan does. I don't trust drive-by opinions by pro racing drivers most of the time, because most of them aren't sim drivers. They give it a try, or maybe use it to learn the layout of a new track, but they don't seriously try to compete in sim racing.

Quote from lemming77 :

It's not that simple. It's never that simple.

Quite correct.

Quote from lemming77 :

One of the biggest turn offs of LFS for me have been the fanboys here. People are so keen on looking down their noses at anyone who even does so much as mention another game around here, it's pathetic.

A person can be enthusiastic and passionate without being a "fanboy". That label is generally used by people who disagree with others on a matter of opinion. It's best left out of the conversation. Just because you think you're a better critical thinker than others doesn't give you the right to label them.

Quote from legoflamb :

mdmx, you are right about realistic FOV, but I think you have one screen FOV backwards. If the FOV is really small, then the sense of speed is not very good. To get a sense of speed, the FOV needs to be as high as possible (for one monitor) so that the peripheral vision can see more of what is going by on the sides ie. trees, fence, wind turbines etc. Therefore, if the FOV is small, then less can be seen in peripheral vision, making sense of speed diminish.

I agree. The lower FOV does make the corners look a heck of a lot more tight though -- which does enhance your sense of speed when making the corner. I find it hard to drive as fast through corners at lower FOV's than at higher -- partially because I can see more of the corner at higher FOV than at lower -- but mostly because the corner looks way more sharp at lower FOV. I think this is another factor in LFS newbies thinking that there isn't enough grip in some of the cars. They use a high FOV like 95+ on a single monitor, and then wonder why they understeer off a corner at a speed that *seems* reasonable to them. Or, they spin while applying power when coming out of a corner. They don't realize how tightly they are turning and the speed they are going and they have no real life experience with a car that powerful.

Anyway, we've probably seen a million posts like this now from people who make a snap judgment based on minimal experience. There's tons of good advice in this thread. Hopefully, other newbies will read it.

Quote from Bob Smith :

I didn't work on that one. That was the ugliness I started off with though, I ended up with what you've got in NASCAR 2011.

Oh alright haha I'll let you off. I must try Nascar 2011 and then I will return my damning verdict.

I always thought the cars handled pretty well, but i haven't got much driving experience in real life


lmtcartalk.blogspot.com

Well, i´ve driven lot´s of cars over this years. I´ve some experience driving fast and i have gone to a few BMW training lessons.

All in all, LFS is the only simulator were i feel comfortable with the handling of the cars.

Haven´t tried iracing, but in LFS the response of the cars, the feeling on the steering wheel, the FFB, the weight changes, etc. feels pretty realistic to me and way better than any other sim.

The extreme set´s may be difficult to handle, but according to what i have learn from guys who has experience in racing, the car´s set for circuit behave in a similar way to the fast set´s in LFS.

Also i love the way LFS manages the behaviour of the car according to how you use your tyres and how you heat them.

The physics are not perfect... well, scawen is working on that and till now he has done a better job than most of the big software companies out there. BTW, i also own Rfactor and i got bored of trying to get the damm thing work properly. I only use it now to make some laps on the F1 circuits before the races and since i got F1 2010 i am not bothered with that either. (btw, F1 2010 is awful regarding car control)

My last try was NFS shift 2 because i wanted to try some of the circuit´s..... After and hour i quit full of frustration and it´s suppoused to have direct support for my G25