Last time I checked pCARS was (not even) in alpha phase? It's not like they're pushing out content to a finished game... I'd rather drive on a track that looks like it's floating in the air and has nothing around it, then waiting on a track that looks finished for like 4 years (you know what I'm talking about).
Uhhm.... do you even understand the development of a video game, or the development model of pCARS? When you pay for a toolpack you are buying into a development cycle. They are giving you access to the development of the game. They're not releasing content to attract new customers, they're just developing a game and letting you watch in exchange for helping fund it.
If you want a finished game, you have to wait for it, or play something else. Clearly you have no idea what the point of what they're doing is.
As above, plus... if they were adding this new content with the intention of selling more copies now, why arent they advertising it on the homepage? They've announced Ford is coming, Formula Gulf & Raupuna, Mitsu, some more Lotus classics, and 4 British laser scanned tracks.
There was a handful of near finished *looking* tracks a few months back like Donington, Hock, Mugello, Brno, Catalunia etc but theres also been WIP ones like Suzuka & Laguna Seca which seemed to be near complete within weeks. Plus WIP ones that will probably take quite a while to get right, like Monaco, Nordschleife & Le Mans, because of the scale of the task to get it right.
I have to say though, if getting access to an very rough draft of a track, is enough to draw people in and contribute to the development, and they're not happy that its a rough draft and feel cheated... who's fault is that? Nobody is remotely suggesting its anything like finished, and if people dont understand the process and you paid your money anyway, maybe its a lesson to check what your spending money on before doing so.
To me, this is a lot like being in LFS from the beginning, seeing things unfold and come to life, except were getting to see a lot more than you typically see with any other game, you do see the good and the bad, but that also gives you faith in the product when the problems are quickly dealt with. Its the nature of the project, and IMO its worth €10 to see how it all happens, the whole process, and to have a small say in shaping its direction and implementing ideas that other games dont have.
For example - Im hoping to get them to implement racing number plates, where the game places a 'decal' onto your car in a set location, and puts your assigned race number onto it. On top of that, i've suggested adding driver name & flags, and even ident colours, which would essentially be a skin with fluorescent yellow/orange/green/blue etc pieces that would distinguish 1 identical car skin from another, like you see in F1 where one driver has a Yellow T-bar, the other has orange.
With all the above, you'd never need to create individual driver skins for a team, You'd make 1 design, and the skin would be customised by driver name, flag, and chosen number, plus the ident colour if desired (i'd have it as an RGB 256 colour slider or something).
Its nothing major, but its a good idea. Not only does it save time for skinners making duplicates, it also means everyone else only has to download 1 skin, not 6 because theres 6 variations of it in the server. Its also good for realism, customisation, and its a unique selling point (small USP, but they all add up).
There was a handful of near finished *looking* tracks a few months back like Donington, Hock, Mugello, Brno, Catalunia etc but theres also been WIP ones like Suzuka & Laguna Seca which seemed to be near complete within weeks. Plus WIP ones that will probably take quite a while to get right, like Monaco, Nordschleife & Le Mans, because of the scale of the task to get it right.
I have to say though, if getting access to an very rough draft of a track, is enough to draw people in and contribute to the development, and they're not happy that its a rough draft and feel cheated... who's fault is that? Nobody is remotely suggesting its anything like finished, and if people dont understand the process and you paid your money anyway, maybe its a lesson to check what your spending money on before doing so.
To me, this is a lot like being in LFS from the beginning, seeing things unfold and come to life, except were getting to see a lot more than you typically see with any other game, you do see the good and the bad, but that also gives you faith in the product when the problems are quickly dealt with. Its the nature of the project, and IMO its worth €10 to see how it all happens, the whole process, and to have a small say in shaping its direction and implementing ideas that other games dont have.
For example - Im hoping to get them to implement racing number plates, where the game places a 'decal' onto your car in a set location, and puts your assigned race number onto it. On top of that, i've suggested adding driver name & flags, and even ident colours, which would essentially be a skin with fluorescent yellow/orange/green/blue etc pieces that would distinguish 1 identical car skin from another, like you see in F1 where one driver has a Yellow T-bar, the other has orange.
With all the above, you'd never need to create individual driver skins for a team, You'd make 1 design, and the skin would be customised by driver name, flag, and chosen number, plus the ident colour if desired (i'd have it as an RGB 256 colour slider or something).
Its nothing major, but its a good idea. Not only does it save time for skinners making duplicates, it also means everyone else only has to download 1 skin, not 6 because theres 6 variations of it in the server. Its also good for realism, customisation, and its a unique selling point (small USP, but they all add up).
While I have nothing against the unfinished content, it's the limited nature of the junior member beta/alpha. You can't try some of the tracks and some of the cars (currently 1 car is limited, but i'm sure the fords won't come to junior members as well). And you can't make any changes with the tweakit tool (which i would love to do) + the ingame adjustments in the lighting menu are also limited to a couple of settings. They're already selling the final game, just like ISI is doing with rf2.
At the bottom line did you get 10 euros worth of fun out of it? I surely did.
Sure did, but i just don't like their attitude, and their forum is a horrible maze, i still can't find any info about the limited nature of the junior member. Only found out about it ingame...
The forum isnt great, certainly for someone who isnt a paid up member trying to get a better understanding, but most of the information a non-member would need to know is in the public areas.
Not sure 'attitude' is the intended word, otherwise i'd very much disagree with you on that. But in terms of limiting access, if they made everything available at the €10 price point, there'd be little incentive to upgrade. As it is, €10 still gets you a lot, and in terms of access right now, your missing out on a couple of tracks & cars, and only 1 build a month, but your still getting access to the development process, and while not as frequent as the €25+ folk still getting updated features as they're implemented.
The fact that even if you decide you dont want to buy pCARS upon release, you've had a rare opportunity to see the industry working on a genre thats of real interest to you, and if thats not worth €10, theres a pretty good chance you'll get that €10 back from sales.
So whatever your investment, you stand to get a decent chunk of it back, not to mention its also knocked off the cost of the retail version (€45).
Im particularly tight for cash, the amount of money ive spent (on anything, incl bills) this year wouldnt even make a 10yr old on pocket money jealous! I still think its a great thing to get involved in though.
If people want to try it for free, there'll be a demo for that, if you want to be involved, and help the project financially and with feedback, you can get involved. AFAIK I cant play iRacing without handing over money, and thats been out for years.
I think you get a lot for €10, even with a few cars & tracks missing along the way, its still a lot of game your seeing, and more. If you think you should have more then fair enough its a difference of opinions, i think its pretty good though, it was enough to get me to invest more and there wasnt any locked cars/tracks then. I wouldnt have paid €45 if that was the entry price.
Not sure 'attitude' is the intended word, otherwise i'd very much disagree with you on that. But in terms of limiting access, if they made everything available at the €10 price point, there'd be little incentive to upgrade. As it is, €10 still gets you a lot, and in terms of access right now, your missing out on a couple of tracks & cars, and only 1 build a month, but your still getting access to the development process, and while not as frequent as the €25+ folk still getting updated features as they're implemented.
The fact that even if you decide you dont want to buy pCARS upon release, you've had a rare opportunity to see the industry working on a genre thats of real interest to you, and if thats not worth €10, theres a pretty good chance you'll get that €10 back from sales.
So whatever your investment, you stand to get a decent chunk of it back, not to mention its also knocked off the cost of the retail version (€45).
Im particularly tight for cash, the amount of money ive spent (on anything, incl bills) this year wouldnt even make a 10yr old on pocket money jealous! I still think its a great thing to get involved in though.
If people want to try it for free, there'll be a demo for that, if you want to be involved, and help the project financially and with feedback, you can get involved. AFAIK I cant play iRacing without handing over money, and thats been out for years.
I think you get a lot for €10, even with a few cars & tracks missing along the way, its still a lot of game your seeing, and more. If you think you should have more then fair enough its a difference of opinions, i think its pretty good though, it was enough to get me to invest more and there wasnt any locked cars/tracks then. I wouldnt have paid €45 if that was the entry price.
I do understand that 10€ was a bargain. Yes, attitude was the wrong word apparently. Because as i was going over the numbers, right now pCARS would have to sell an additional 1million copies just to break even. The current "moneyback" is just about (a little less) the same as the money put in.
By my calculations the sum paid out to the "investors" if 1million copies are sold.
Senior Manager 24679€
Manager 983€
Senior 98€
Full member 44.10€
Team member 24.50€
Junior member 9.80€
I wouldn't excpect pCars to sell much more than this, if it's going to be a hardcore simulator like nKp or LFS (iRacing). The assists in the game already suggest that it's not going to be a real sim. So I'm glad I only paid 10€ for this. Assists skew the learning curve of a simulator and divide the players very unevenly. That's what I meant by the "attitude" I mentioned earlier. By assists I mean steering aids and stability aids + the ability to turn off damage. Traction control is OK, only if it varies by car, if the car has TC in real life or the real life counterpart, then add TC. And also I understand auto clutches and braking helpers, because not everyone has a proper controller. That's where I draw the line. This is only my opinion, I don't want to upset anyone.
By my calculations the sum paid out to the "investors" if 1million copies are sold.
Senior Manager 24679€
Manager 983€
Senior 98€
Full member 44.10€
Team member 24.50€
Junior member 9.80€
I wouldn't excpect pCars to sell much more than this, if it's going to be a hardcore simulator like nKp or LFS (iRacing). The assists in the game already suggest that it's not going to be a real sim. So I'm glad I only paid 10€ for this. Assists skew the learning curve of a simulator and divide the players very unevenly. That's what I meant by the "attitude" I mentioned earlier. By assists I mean steering aids and stability aids + the ability to turn off damage. Traction control is OK, only if it varies by car, if the car has TC in real life or the real life counterpart, then add TC. And also I understand auto clutches and braking helpers, because not everyone has a proper controller. That's where I draw the line. This is only my opinion, I don't want to upset anyone.
^ if pcars goes to consoles, it should at least break even. Once there's decent multiplayer added, the number of buys should jump.
The assists would spoil it, but the devs have said that the server admins will be able to govern what will be allowed in their servers. Whats likely to happen is that the vast majority of servers will run with pretty much all aids removed, almost certainly any which give any advantage.
That doesnt bother me, it'll be a bit like LFS where you quickly get to know what peoples views are, and you know who to look for when you want some action. You just stay out of the 'n00b' servers, just like you'd try and avoid drift & cruise servers in LFS if thats not what your looking for.
I have to admit the driving aids do bother me, and IMO they should be tied into the simulation mode, if your on beginner then slap on all the aids you need to get around, but if your on Pro, then you should only get access to a couple of aids, like auto-clutch & auto-gears (mainly cos they're slower than manual, theres nothing to gain by being lame). Hopefully they'll address this, the problem is they dont want to alienate the casual market, or the die-hard market. They're trying to be considerate of everyone, and give them the game they want it to be, not force 1 opinion on everyone, and say take it or leave it. It just needs honing in.
That doesnt bother me, it'll be a bit like LFS where you quickly get to know what peoples views are, and you know who to look for when you want some action. You just stay out of the 'n00b' servers, just like you'd try and avoid drift & cruise servers in LFS if thats not what your looking for.
I have to admit the driving aids do bother me, and IMO they should be tied into the simulation mode, if your on beginner then slap on all the aids you need to get around, but if your on Pro, then you should only get access to a couple of aids, like auto-clutch & auto-gears (mainly cos they're slower than manual, theres nothing to gain by being lame). Hopefully they'll address this, the problem is they dont want to alienate the casual market, or the die-hard market. They're trying to be considerate of everyone, and give them the game they want it to be, not force 1 opinion on everyone, and say take it or leave it. It just needs honing in.
I just love the fact that there is news every week and such a good open discussion with development. The 25 Euro investment, I had worse ones.
Very disappointed with the dynamic clouds, the ones outside look pathetic now 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PadOtVO3qpI
The 'pop-up' is a little odd, i guess i'd always considered that clouds would roll into the scene, but thats not exactly how it works, hopefully they'll fix it so its not so noticable that a cloud shape appears. Im not sure if the time-lapse makes it worse, it needs to fade into view, im guessing its just not been done yet.
Hell of a job so far anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PadOtVO3qpI
The 'pop-up' is a little odd, i guess i'd always considered that clouds would roll into the scene, but thats not exactly how it works, hopefully they'll fix it so its not so noticable that a cloud shape appears. Im not sure if the time-lapse makes it worse, it needs to fade into view, im guessing its just not been done yet.
Hell of a job so far anyway.
Oh my god, it looks awesome!! 
FullHD video from the GIF image, and a few more scenes added too, absolutely stunning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmYsvRef964
The Imola cloud at the end looks rather low, not sure if thats because its a big cloud so its deceptive, but it looks odd
Its good that you can see the range which the clouds come into the game though, they're quite a distance away and at normal speed you'll just spot them on the horizon and probably be 10-15min or something before they're with you.
I know while racing, what the clouds are doing isnt that important, but it just looks and feels so much better seeing that. Couple it with weather, and decent length races should be so much fun, i keep thinking how amazing MoE would have been with these sort of features in LFS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmYsvRef964
The Imola cloud at the end looks rather low, not sure if thats because its a big cloud so its deceptive, but it looks odd
Its good that you can see the range which the clouds come into the game though, they're quite a distance away and at normal speed you'll just spot them on the horizon and probably be 10-15min or something before they're with you.
I know while racing, what the clouds are doing isnt that important, but it just looks and feels so much better seeing that. Couple it with weather, and decent length races should be so much fun, i keep thinking how amazing MoE would have been with these sort of features in LFS.
I'm really liking the rain and the FRookie so far, both are done well (Okay, so the rain's in a very basic state). NotNurburgring is great to drive so far, I'm addicted to taking the Zonda around it and trying to beat 7 minutes, or the FA at Azure Coast circuite and winning there.
EDIT: The stupidity on the WMD forums is rising. Apparently some people want public servers to be wheels only. Despite the fact it's planned to be on consoles. SMH
EDIT: The stupidity on the WMD forums is rising. Apparently some people want public servers to be wheels only. Despite the fact it's planned to be on consoles. SMH
Those may be the same guys who wished for having you controling your driver GTA style, taking your car from the truck, walk through the paddock, walk to the stand to watch an online race (as if the Dedicated Server doesn't have too much to do with his resources with 40+ guys promised to be racing) and control him at podium!
There are quite stupid sugestions. Fortunately most of those sugestions die at birth.
This would be amazing, spotting dark clouds on the horizon and watching them build over the next 15 minutes before the heavens open - trying to time the tyre change to wets just right.
Actually if that was done right, it would be very, very good, (up to the walking the paddock bit), nKPro had its own first person mode after all.
It would be kind of fun, once. But a massive pain in the arse if this is the 2000th time you've done it and all you want to do is race.
Could anyone sum this game up in few words? Haven't followed it at all.. Sim, half/sim?
Tried this again yesterday, the physics still make it feel like a tweaked NFS Shift if you ask me. It's simply not fun when everything that happens doesn't make any sense.
Graphically it sure keeps getting prettier. It's a pity only their artist department is competent.
Graphically it sure keeps getting prettier. It's a pity only their artist department is competent.
The stupidity is from the likes of yourself who have not read the thread properly.
All we are asking for is dedicated server options to filter who can join by control method/driving aids...much like LFS/Airio can do.
Even then, I seriously doubt PC and console guys will be racing against each other...
See now you explain it, i'm coming around to the idea now that it is actually explained nicely what it's about and yes, I think it should be options, but there shouldn't be people out there who for example set it for G27 only and to ban any other users. Though, there will be.
But some people in that thread are all 'ZOMG KB/PAD USERS CANT DRIVE AND SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO PLAY PCARS AT ALL ONLINE!11' mentality, which isn't exactly true....as a look at LFSW would point out, there are quick KB/pad users and clean KB/pad users. I wouldn't rule out cross platform racing at all though (again, portal 2 had cross platform multiplayer when people said Source MP wouldn't work on the PS3), anything is possible and honestly I would expect SMS to surprise us with that as a feature.
I tend to take issue with people who assume all keyboard users or pad users are wreckers, as was the mentality from a few people in that thread and their outright hostility to everything non wheel related. It's pretty stupid and there were several workarounds and valid points from both sides posted that they didn't pay attention to.
I'm pretty sure that the consoles and PC will use different physics, so cross platform is a non-starter due to this. Can't find the post I'm looking for at the moment though, so I may be wrong about that.
C.a.r.s.
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