Will LFS S3 be released like the others where word of mouth and 3rd party reviews of the game attract customers or is the LFS team going to attempt a big hit online simulator by means of a lot of marketing.
I'm pretty easy both ways but I'm thinking 3-4 years after the release would it be better to have a flood of new users at the beginning so that later on there will be more loyal clean racers online.
I read through the thread, all I want to say is thank you Victor for answering at least some questions after very long time. You deserve a "Good Guy Vic" meme.
I have always said that tyre physics is missing the point of a racing simulation anyway. A car simulation sure, but racing is about racing - and that requires the environment to be as dynamic as a real race track and in this department LFS is like all the other sims, the environment is too static and there is no persistence from one session to the next.
We don't adjust our tyre pressures and castor angles for the midday sun, we don't have to compensate for track temperature variance on overcast days, we need not worry about how much grit is on the racing line when the surface is damp, our circuits are not effected by locale issues like overhanging trees or being under the flight path of jumbo jets.
To me LFS is a car simulator that happens to have quite good multiplayer code. This results is a reasonable racing experience, but I wouldn't call it a racing simulator.
From a personal perspective what I would really like is some 5 door saloons, with some kind of variable boost or push to pass system that I can control via insim for league racing with some new short circuit configurations, then I can bring back the STCC broadcast series . But I don't really care about tyre physics.
As for the communication between devs and the community I have already given my view elsewhere, it's a discussion which has occurred many times here over the last 4 years.
hi becky the big racing simulators that are used for training by real race drivers do they have all the things that you said.
Im clueless but just thought what would define them racing simulators and not car simulators
I think, if it wouldn't be for an indy developer like scawen, other sims wouldn't even bother with proper tyre physics, which is the essence for a driving game (for the player itself).
I've had the same amount of time on one as you have, or less :P
And no, the essense of the game for the player is the gameplay mechanics. Currently racing in LFS is a matter of chasing perfection every lap - the environment is sterile so there is a perfect way to navigate each circumference of the track. It's about endless practice and precision. This is unequivocally not what racing is like from my limited experience of going racing.
Tyres are important, but I view LFS' physics as "sufficient" given that the environment is so stale.
I dont want to chase endless laps drilling in perfection, practice yes, but without the dynamicism of an environmental simulation the core gameplay of all simulators is totally at odds with the experience of actually racing and instead are games whereby the youthful ability to recreate and be repetetive is the most rewarded skill.
I can't disagree and it would be very interessting to have the enviroment simulated too, but i also imagine it extremely complex, seeing as alone the temperature simulation momentarily seem to be off, how complex would be weather, wet surface affected by sun and wind, different types of tarmac and what not...
I somewhat agree with Becky, great physics is what got me to LFS but let's not fool ourselves, we are rotating some plastic wheels on tables, there's no point in working 10 years on a physics engine, it will never be real, especially with low-specs PC's that LFS plays on..
A simulator with all that implemented would be well WicKed but surley something that complex has been created yet and probably take many years(i may be wrong as i usually am)..and surely thats would need to be a weather simulator inside a racing simulator.
And thankyou for answering my question becky i thought id ask as i have the inteligence of a brick,also its a pleasure to meet/speak2 you
Just out of curiosity I'd like to see a simple graph of bought licenses (monthly) since 2005 or so and up to this date. I guess there still has to be pretty constant influx of new buyers, since the devs are able to take their time, but I can't imagine how the graph would not have been heading down recently. A graph pointing down would be the biggest assurance that the updates must come out sooner rather than later.
As I know from sources, the devs do have jobs besides LFS. Vic for example works at a bakery.. So it's not just the income from LFS they live from, to be able to take so long to work on perfect physics.
I just can't wait for when it would finally be released, and than try it.
If I'd had the money, I'd just buy a full-motion simulator to enjoy the new physics. Sadly I'm not that rich.
The devs should take all the time they need to finish a ever greater product. But on the other side of the stone, a new track or 2 new tracks, wouldn't be luxery. Would just be fuel to keep the engine going.
ScaViEr I wish you 250% of luck on the LFS project, and keep it going, would break my hearth to see LFS go. Thanks for already 10 years of pure enjoyment.
Then don't be a hotlapper Yeah sure I know you are (were) a racer both on the web and RL - but then you should know that LFS races, especially close battles, don't allow for much perfect lap questing. It's about dealing with the guy on your rear or the guy in front and making adjustments, finding a new line to defend or attack. And of course there's dealing with tire temperature and wear - especially on the longer races..... pushing too hard can cost you later. etc etc etc If OL racing is challenging under those conditions - imagine if all the variables you mention were included - the dedicated and skilled would enjoy the challenge, but in casual pickup races, there would be even more carnage and angry drivers.
Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see all sorts or transient variables introduced ...... I'm just being realistic about the consequences. Is it more important than tire physics?? On that I'll trust they judgement of the devs.
My general 2 cents on this topic - the devs got away from game development as a "normal business" to do their own thing .... and then share it with others when possible. I see this move as a "work of art" (who really wants to debate here if it really is a sim - there are plenty of esoteric forums where such debates are the main course).
Considering it as a work of "art" - do folks feel right barging into the studio and demanding to see the work in progress? Or suggesting the artist is doing it all wrong, and should use acrylics instead of oils? Or make it bigger or smaller?
Yes, the "artist" might be said to owe some debt to their "public" - but that's another academic discussion, and to no avail here (and honestly pretty insulting when carried on in the artists living room).
Sure, I'd like to see the devs hang out in their living room more. But I don't expect it is a very pleasing experience for them, given the tone and content of many of the posts.
So to the devs, kudos for the masterpiece!!! You've got it right so far, and I hope the next is even more compelling
Edit - Noticed the "youthful ability" phrase - so I felt it might be relevant that I'm 62 years young and really take exception with this AGISM
I feel that talking about this is prying in to the personal finances of other people and I don't think is very polite, but I can say that I have not heard anything contrary to Scawen working full time on the physics and I do know that in at least one instance he has drafted in expert help from outside - but yes your source is correct.
Whilst in the heat of battle you are correct, but the sad reality is - especially in faster cars but to some extent through all of LFS - the faster car gets by too easily. Partly this is because the aerodynamic simulation doesnt feel right.
I think it was as far back as patch Q or S or thereabouts when the physics had a bug which meant loads of extra downforce was applied to the front wing when you followed someone through a corner and created oversteer. It was totally wrong, it should have been understeer - but the racing was right as a result! The problem with the physics for the most part is that there is too much mechanical grip and not enough aerodynamic grip, and consequently faster cars tend to blitz past slower ones without too much of an issue.
Go and watch any club or national level motorsport with downforce cars and you will notice an unusual phenomenon. When cars are following each other they tend to be the same distance apart at a given point on the track. It's the aerodynamic effect at work, and it's more important to racing than mechanical grip.
On the contrary I think it would help. The problem with a sterile environment is that with practice there is a perfect way to do a lap, and you can recreate it. If you introduce transient variables then you remove the concept of perfection and force drivers not to be so close to the limit.
I couldn't agree more.
At just over half your age I certainly don't consider myself youthful either - I am hinting at the ability of youngsters to condition themselves for repetition and their regrettably faster reflexes to visual queues. I no longer have the reactions I did when I was young, which where lightning quick if I say so myself. Do you remember that Alain Prost reaction time game in video arcades back in the 80's? Pah, top spot was easy then...
You may have kept your Jedi like reflexes, in which case I tip my badly dyed hair with its first signs of grey to you - but I still reserve the right to moan about kids today, it's a privilege of age :P
Yes Ms Rose, I see your point about "sterile environment" and pushing the limits - and accepted Would be interesting to see in practice
At my age almost everybody is a "kid" so I have lots to moan about (including my own). My reactions still haven't slowed too much - I play on a softball team with mostly 20 and 30-something "kids" .... as the pitcher, i often get my reflexes tested with a line drive "come-backer" (and still have my teeth)
Still racing is not all about reflexes, it's also about spatial awareness, geometric projection, judgement, strategy, patience .......... ohhhh shucks, those are all fading too
Indeed the point you make I believe is what makes a racer above average and become a good driver, race-craft is one part of the key to making a good driver better, I will ignore the age thing (40 soon!) Experience counts for a lot where racing skill is concerned (car track situation) Experience makes a good driver a great driver
What keeps me interested and playing LFS is the depth of the game-play, which obviously I believe is down to excellent track/car design and physics. This also coupled with a no BS menu system makes LFS quick easy to play hard to master
But concerning LFS development I think there has been two choices that I think have been a bit "NOoooooooooooooo"
Demo = shoulda kept that damn XRT there XFG XRT FBM
Credits= why why why. Some people said it was useless. I thought it was underused, now with cruise etc insim development etc. I could of used my massive Vcridt to bet on races while spec or bet on myself. on cruise servers use this to buy things / or use the credit system for entry to servers or league events. So many possibilities gone there.
. But I don't really care about tyre physics.
