German motorsport-total.com quoted ACO president Pierre Fillon in its news about the merger.
Also it was said that the new North American series will be a way to qualify for the 24 hours of LeMans in its respective classes.
German motorsport-total.com quoted ACO president Pierre Fillon in its news about the merger.
Also it was said that the new North American series will be a way to qualify for the 24 hours of LeMans in its respective classes.
Wouldn't they incorporate DP and GA-GT into a current class then? Surely they wouldn't just add a class for this American series.
ALMS website is taking a poll ... class to the 2014 merger.
^Poll is down the page a bit.
Also another article asking fo ... in the comments section.
^Poll is down the page a bit.
Also another article asking fo ... in the comments section.
Just to be a help rather than an ill-informed idiot, what classes do you guys think they should vote on, I wouldn't know what's a good class in ALMS as I never watch it. I guess P2 and GTC are the most popular though.
Well I wouldn't want them to go any more than 4 classes, and I wouldn't want them to take out P1, no matter how "dead" it is. I'd also put a 3 year limit on the DP class.
Basically:
P1
P2
PC+DP (tuned up about 3-5 seconds faster, 3 year lifespan before they need to move into P1/P2)
GTE Pro
GTE Am
However I doubt it is going to happen.
In reality it will probably be closer to this:
P1+P2 as one class (some form of merger)
DP+LMPC as one class (will make DP faster)
GTE
GAGT+GTC
Ending P1 will just hurt it all, P2 will be untouched hopefully, DP will end up being its own category and carnage will be had in it if it lasts. GTE is a world-wide class, yet GAGT is a very silly class that is known no where in the world but here.
Sure it sucks that GAGT will have to sacrifice their GT field and hope they make the move, but in all honesty wouldn't it be for the best? I wouldn't mind seeing 20 GT cars out there.
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Broadcasting needs to be international like ALMS currently has. I'd much rather them have Speed for the American TV coverage here though so it is live on TV (over ESPN3). Onboards that they have currently in ALMS is also a must. Commentary needs to be done by RLM or at worst what ALMS has right now. RLM's feed going to radio stations here would be fantastic as well.
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There needs to be a connection to LeMans (so many are fighting against that it is incredible) and the ACO. Tracks should only include 2 street circuits tops (Long Beach and Baltimore) and Daytona, Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America, Watkins Glen, VIR, Laguna, Indy, Mosport, Mid Ohio, Montreal, and (possibly) Barber should stay. Tracks like Lime Rock, Homestead, NJMP, and Belle Isle should all be put aside.
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Anyways I don't have facebook so can't contribute to anything on their website etc. I just hope they don't kill it all for a more Americanized series.
Basically:
P1
P2
PC+DP (tuned up about 3-5 seconds faster, 3 year lifespan before they need to move into P1/P2)
GTE Pro
GTE Am
However I doubt it is going to happen.
In reality it will probably be closer to this:
P1+P2 as one class (some form of merger)
DP+LMPC as one class (will make DP faster)
GTE
GAGT+GTC
Ending P1 will just hurt it all, P2 will be untouched hopefully, DP will end up being its own category and carnage will be had in it if it lasts. GTE is a world-wide class, yet GAGT is a very silly class that is known no where in the world but here.
Sure it sucks that GAGT will have to sacrifice their GT field and hope they make the move, but in all honesty wouldn't it be for the best? I wouldn't mind seeing 20 GT cars out there.
------
Broadcasting needs to be international like ALMS currently has. I'd much rather them have Speed for the American TV coverage here though so it is live on TV (over ESPN3). Onboards that they have currently in ALMS is also a must. Commentary needs to be done by RLM or at worst what ALMS has right now. RLM's feed going to radio stations here would be fantastic as well.
------
There needs to be a connection to LeMans (so many are fighting against that it is incredible) and the ACO. Tracks should only include 2 street circuits tops (Long Beach and Baltimore) and Daytona, Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America, Watkins Glen, VIR, Laguna, Indy, Mosport, Mid Ohio, Montreal, and (possibly) Barber should stay. Tracks like Lime Rock, Homestead, NJMP, and Belle Isle should all be put aside.
---
Anyways I don't have facebook so can't contribute to anything on their website etc. I just hope they don't kill it all for a more Americanized series.
Havn't we had that not too long ago at all rounds but Sebring and Petit LeMans?
2010 ALMS yes. However if you put a short lifespan on DP (3 years), then they can move to LMP1 or P2 after those. DP to LMP2 is no different in terms of budget. Some DP teams could possibly afford to move up into LMP1.
The point is, I'd hate to see P1 in general die. It's the progression class, where things happen. If it just turns into a spec series like GrandAm is now then I won't even care to watch it.
Agreed with Milner.
The point is, I'd hate to see P1 in general die. It's the progression class, where things happen. If it just turns into a spec series like GrandAm is now then I won't even care to watch it.
Agreed with Milner.
Well LMPC aren't homologated after 2014 so it may desappear (basically this is 2006 (!) Courage LC75 !).
Banning LMP1 would be dramatic as it is basically a factory class designed for factories. With such a big american championship I think (hope) some american brand would be interested in that and potentially would find Le mans interested so basically need to race in P1 !
For me it should be :
P1 - ACO
P2 - ACO
DP (tbh it is outdated cars so if it's not here it wouldn't be such a bad thing)
GTE PRO - ACO
GTE AM - ACO
Grand AM GTs - Grand AM
Banning LMP1 would be dramatic as it is basically a factory class designed for factories. With such a big american championship I think (hope) some american brand would be interested in that and potentially would find Le mans interested so basically need to race in P1 !
For me it should be :
P1 - ACO
P2 - ACO
DP (tbh it is outdated cars so if it's not here it wouldn't be such a bad thing)
GTE PRO - ACO
GTE AM - ACO
Grand AM GTs - Grand AM
Killing LMP1 wouldn't be dramatic at all since the class two entries away from not being a class at all. 
Already last year when then the was doubt whether the ALMS-ACO deal was being renewed or not, I hoped it wouldn't be. The Le Mans connection is an important asset but in practice it seems like keeping the regs so similar has still hurt the series more than it has helped. Especially recently.
Historically... IMSA GT never really followed the Group C regulations used in FIA WSC, but then again maybe shouldn't compare times where the series on both continents were quite a bit more healthy.
Already last year when then the was doubt whether the ALMS-ACO deal was being renewed or not, I hoped it wouldn't be. The Le Mans connection is an important asset but in practice it seems like keeping the regs so similar has still hurt the series more than it has helped. Especially recently.
Historically... IMSA GT never really followed the Group C regulations used in FIA WSC, but then again maybe shouldn't compare times where the series on both continents were quite a bit more healthy.
being rational, it's the way forward, both series were facing problems in the future some more public than others, if they get it right it could lead to big things with US endurance racing becoming more closely aligned with the ACO which could benefit all.
so what would i, who enjoyed watching both series on tv, like to see as the new series class structure ?
for all we know, they've already got a good heads up from the ACO regarding the 2014 WEC regs impact and if the rumoured regs are correct then i'd expect there to be a lot of homeless current P2 cars then so i'd hope the Grand American Le Mans Series or whatever it end up as will use them without modification as it's new top class, i'm sorry P1 but your time has gone at a private level, there'll be no new cars built for the one year remaining in WEC, the works cars will never appear in private hands so the best you can hope for is being balanced in the P2 class but it's simpler to just drop them. depending on 2014 WEC regs eventually P2 may be replaced but i'd suggest that a regional series is not the place for works backed P1 replacements, almost inevitably it rises and then falls as budgets are effected by results leading to just one manufacturer becoming dominant.
according to star works the DP's over a full grand am series are more expensive to buy and run than the current P2's in the WEC and with a surplus of P2 cars on the market it may be that P2 is a cheaper option than DP in a US series so rather than modify the DP regs to make them faster and more expensive, let them run as a second class for the near future, eventually i'd like to see them evolve into an ACO blessed prototype "feeder" formula, sort of a cross between the current DP, ALMS PC and Formula Le Mans
after that what they don't need is a glut of GT classes with cars that all look similar or even identical but are running in different competitions which just confuse the casual spectator / viewer
given that a Grand Am porsche, ferrari or audi is substantially more expensive than a normal GT3 car ( i was talking to some one from united auto sports last year about this and they said the audi price was "crazy") i'd hope they adopt pure GT3 rather than series specific regs. plus if you allow "standard GT3" it increases the choice of manufacturers for teams.
after GT3 is tricky, and depends on the series' relationship with the ACO,
GT am would make sense but the all porsche GTC class in ALMS has been a success so you could keep it as the bottom class, identical cars mean close racing and controlled costs, i'd be tempted to allow the 458 challenge cars in with it but then you've either got to run 2 separate championships or got to the expense of performance balancing, if running both i'd personally award a 911 GTC and 458 GTC championship as costs are the killer factor these days
the obvious alternative is GT2, this is dependent on the relationship with the ACO, if the new series is recognised by them, GT2 makes sense instead of the GTC
finally let's not loose sight this is an american championship so something that allows US manufacturers to go at it with each other, even if only by private projects
the RX8 factory blessing is likely to disappear with mazda's desire to run in P2 so that clears the boards for a new, non spaceframe class,
it needs to be viable for teams to take a car that's not raced and make it competitive so try and tap into the wonderful amount of spec race parts the US tuning industry has been turning out for years, eg specs like a 5 speed H pattern trans from any source. try and find a way to easily and cheaply balance performance of stock shell race caged cars running front engine RWD, maybe allow or even insist on some arch extensions and control the aero developments, NASCAR are really good at quantifying performance so they should be able to get the balance pretty good. depending on if GT2 is running, this "GT US" could either run slower than GT3 and above GTC or at GTC pace
so we either have
P2
DP
GT3
GT US
GTC
or
P2
DP
GT2
GT3
GT US
if the second scenario, then offer porsche a support race series for supercup cars, that would make a great event on race day. followed by a protoype lites round before the main event.
if you need to fill the program more, do it at first on a track by track basis using popular local series, it'll give the drivers/ teams some publicity, a taste of the big time and may encourage spectators attracted by the big names to come back to watch the locals again. importantly make sure the support races get TV coverage, Tv coverage is a tool to increase support, not a revenue stream in it's own right, the BTCC in the UK shows what can be done with a complete package increasing sponsor opportunities for drivers/teams which boosts participation. which makes it more attractive to spectators etc. eventually you may be able to attract other one make series, 458 challenge maybe or a US manufacturer could be interested, a vette only series would look and sound fantastic.
that's my ideal, and has taken almost an hour of re writes, cutting and pasting, no doubt everyone will have their own ideas but if there's three things i'd say were essentials, it's to control costs / increase choice by not using series specific versions of internationally available cars, to become internationally "relevant" and work with the ACO etc rather than against them and to produce a total "package" to offer live spectators, tv companies and viewers to enable teams to attract sponsors and make the series more viable
in a related area, the governing bodies need to get a grip on GT3, the idea of an open class is great but the amount of exemptions is getting stupid, i'm sorry ferrari but if your 458 is too wide it shouldn't be racing and getting an advantage from that exemption and then everyone else building wider cars to compete.
no exemption should provide a competitive edge, just equality so if you need to run a wide car be prepared to have your tyre width reduced, larger engine viper? ok but don't complain that air restriction hurts your top end, carbon tub? ok mclaren but don't be surprised if we insist that you fit ballast where we want not where it benefits you.
so what would i, who enjoyed watching both series on tv, like to see as the new series class structure ?
for all we know, they've already got a good heads up from the ACO regarding the 2014 WEC regs impact and if the rumoured regs are correct then i'd expect there to be a lot of homeless current P2 cars then so i'd hope the Grand American Le Mans Series or whatever it end up as will use them without modification as it's new top class, i'm sorry P1 but your time has gone at a private level, there'll be no new cars built for the one year remaining in WEC, the works cars will never appear in private hands so the best you can hope for is being balanced in the P2 class but it's simpler to just drop them. depending on 2014 WEC regs eventually P2 may be replaced but i'd suggest that a regional series is not the place for works backed P1 replacements, almost inevitably it rises and then falls as budgets are effected by results leading to just one manufacturer becoming dominant.
according to star works the DP's over a full grand am series are more expensive to buy and run than the current P2's in the WEC and with a surplus of P2 cars on the market it may be that P2 is a cheaper option than DP in a US series so rather than modify the DP regs to make them faster and more expensive, let them run as a second class for the near future, eventually i'd like to see them evolve into an ACO blessed prototype "feeder" formula, sort of a cross between the current DP, ALMS PC and Formula Le Mans
after that what they don't need is a glut of GT classes with cars that all look similar or even identical but are running in different competitions which just confuse the casual spectator / viewer
given that a Grand Am porsche, ferrari or audi is substantially more expensive than a normal GT3 car ( i was talking to some one from united auto sports last year about this and they said the audi price was "crazy") i'd hope they adopt pure GT3 rather than series specific regs. plus if you allow "standard GT3" it increases the choice of manufacturers for teams.
after GT3 is tricky, and depends on the series' relationship with the ACO,
GT am would make sense but the all porsche GTC class in ALMS has been a success so you could keep it as the bottom class, identical cars mean close racing and controlled costs, i'd be tempted to allow the 458 challenge cars in with it but then you've either got to run 2 separate championships or got to the expense of performance balancing, if running both i'd personally award a 911 GTC and 458 GTC championship as costs are the killer factor these days
the obvious alternative is GT2, this is dependent on the relationship with the ACO, if the new series is recognised by them, GT2 makes sense instead of the GTC
finally let's not loose sight this is an american championship so something that allows US manufacturers to go at it with each other, even if only by private projects
the RX8 factory blessing is likely to disappear with mazda's desire to run in P2 so that clears the boards for a new, non spaceframe class,
it needs to be viable for teams to take a car that's not raced and make it competitive so try and tap into the wonderful amount of spec race parts the US tuning industry has been turning out for years, eg specs like a 5 speed H pattern trans from any source. try and find a way to easily and cheaply balance performance of stock shell race caged cars running front engine RWD, maybe allow or even insist on some arch extensions and control the aero developments, NASCAR are really good at quantifying performance so they should be able to get the balance pretty good. depending on if GT2 is running, this "GT US" could either run slower than GT3 and above GTC or at GTC pace
so we either have
P2
DP
GT3
GT US
GTC
or
P2
DP
GT2
GT3
GT US
if the second scenario, then offer porsche a support race series for supercup cars, that would make a great event on race day. followed by a protoype lites round before the main event.
if you need to fill the program more, do it at first on a track by track basis using popular local series, it'll give the drivers/ teams some publicity, a taste of the big time and may encourage spectators attracted by the big names to come back to watch the locals again. importantly make sure the support races get TV coverage, Tv coverage is a tool to increase support, not a revenue stream in it's own right, the BTCC in the UK shows what can be done with a complete package increasing sponsor opportunities for drivers/teams which boosts participation. which makes it more attractive to spectators etc. eventually you may be able to attract other one make series, 458 challenge maybe or a US manufacturer could be interested, a vette only series would look and sound fantastic.
that's my ideal, and has taken almost an hour of re writes, cutting and pasting, no doubt everyone will have their own ideas but if there's three things i'd say were essentials, it's to control costs / increase choice by not using series specific versions of internationally available cars, to become internationally "relevant" and work with the ACO etc rather than against them and to produce a total "package" to offer live spectators, tv companies and viewers to enable teams to attract sponsors and make the series more viable
in a related area, the governing bodies need to get a grip on GT3, the idea of an open class is great but the amount of exemptions is getting stupid, i'm sorry ferrari but if your 458 is too wide it shouldn't be racing and getting an advantage from that exemption and then everyone else building wider cars to compete.
no exemption should provide a competitive edge, just equality so if you need to run a wide car be prepared to have your tyre width reduced, larger engine viper? ok but don't complain that air restriction hurts your top end, carbon tub? ok mclaren but don't be surprised if we insist that you fit ballast where we want not where it benefits you.
Well ALMS have never followed litteraly ACO regulations but kept the car close to ACO regulations so teams that wanted to compete at Le Mans was able to compete in France.
The thing is that Daytona + Sebring + laguna Seca + Watkins Glen + Indy + Atlanta is probably more interesting than only half of them so LMP1 class which is expensive is for factories. Atm ALMS has none but probably some american brands will think about this big championship has a possible opportunity that wasn't offered by ALMS nor Grand AM.
For me P1 isn't really needed in Europe as european factories tried to export themself out of Europe and there are more and more european (France for example) country are more and more anti-cars. For example Peugeot pushed a lot for chinese ILMC round. Audi was also interested in. America is a bit different as american car maker's first market is still America.
Btw in Europe you must be awared that some people are speaking about accepting CN class in ELMS.
The thing is that Daytona + Sebring + laguna Seca + Watkins Glen + Indy + Atlanta is probably more interesting than only half of them so LMP1 class which is expensive is for factories. Atm ALMS has none but probably some american brands will think about this big championship has a possible opportunity that wasn't offered by ALMS nor Grand AM.
For me P1 isn't really needed in Europe as european factories tried to export themself out of Europe and there are more and more european (France for example) country are more and more anti-cars. For example Peugeot pushed a lot for chinese ILMC round. Audi was also interested in. America is a bit different as american car maker's first market is still America.
Btw in Europe you must be awared that some people are speaking about accepting CN class in ELMS.
While I sadly agree with the prototype classes, I don't see the reason to change the GT classes. GTE in ALMS is known and provides cars. I guess it can be changed to GT3 but that would cause certain teams to drop out and who knows if any will step forward. Also, ALMS GTC is identical speeds to GAGT, so that can just combine into one class instead of splitting them even more.
Still rumoured...? They were already ratified by FIA in June, the pdf bible has not been released to public yet but there is this presentation.
2014 changes concern only P1. If I remember correctly P2 is supposed to remain unchanged.
whats CN class?
anybody has a stream of the 6h of interlagos?
http://live.fiawec.com
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpg7wv_fia-wec-live_auto
http://tv.audi.de
http://www.audi-liveracing.com
Stick to the Audi ones, because the Dailymotion/fiawec.com one works like shit right now and has wrong aspect ratio and horrible quality. Live timing in the 1st link (stop the stream).
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpg7wv_fia-wec-live_auto
http://tv.audi.de
http://www.audi-liveracing.com
Stick to the Audi ones, because the Dailymotion/fiawec.com one works like shit right now and has wrong aspect ratio and horrible quality. Live timing in the 1st link (stop the stream).
wow, toyota is still in first and there is 36min left. they lead by one lap. amazing.
Toyota wins \/
/Watching Audi take everything was starting to get dull...good to see them taking a lap from Toyota today for a change 
I still miss Peugeot !
Toyota like a boss!
So does Nick Daman by the sound of it
Completely different series, but ALMS broadcast, it was just stated that GTE will not be changed for the merger.
2012 Endurance Racing (WEC, LMS, ALMS, etc..)
(600 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG