The tire heat model is advanced and on the right track but I find myself having to "pussyfoot" a lap every 3-4 laps on the Road Super tires. I am not sure what they are comparable to in real life, but if its a performance radial, or drag radial simulation the tires get too hot too quickly, and don't ease up unless you practically stop for a few minutes.

I have driven several cars at the limit on closed courses and even an autoX, and no matter how hard I push the tires they don't overheat and turn into silly puddy like in LFS.

Heck, my friend's modded LT1 Formula has never gotten to an overheating stage of grip where its almost as bad as having water on the tires. They just seem to go into the red too easily, even with a high pressure setup made to resist the heat buildup. They also lose heat too slowly in my experienced opinion.

Also, the dirt model has the same problem. I spun my dad's GS300 a couple years ago after drifting around a few corners and got the rears in the grass, which was still damp. After a 5-second burnout and one more small slide the tires seemed back to normal. On LFS it seems to take forever and just seems unrealistic.

Well, I don't have any heat problems at all, infact, the more I drift (lol pun) into the "zone" the cooler my tyres and the faster my laptimes get. Why? Because I'm driving much much smoother than normally or especially when trying to "push hard" which again hurts my laptimes more than it helps.

Maybe it's because in RL?™ you feel when the car is going to lose it and automatically drive much smoother than you do in LFS.

The dirt on the tyres is not so innacurate as you say. But I do agree that Road Supers should be a little tougher.

Because you can't feel the g-forces on the car, and because you cannot hurt yourself, you tend to drive a lot harder than you would in real life.

I rarely have problems with tyre heat - the worst one at the moment is the FOX at SO Town, but I'm sure I'll fix that. I don't even have a problem with the UFR/XFR normally, and they are considered the worst for tyre heat.

Just try driving smoother. You'll be quicker too.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Because you can't feel the g-forces on the car, and because you cannot hurt yourself, you tend to drive a lot harder than you would in real life.

I rarely have problems with tyre heat - the worst one at the moment is the FOX at SO Town, but I'm sure I'll fix that. I don't even have a problem with the UFR/XFR normally, and they are considered the worst for tyre heat.

Just try driving smoother. You'll be quicker too.

Yep its not hard to run a load of laps in the UFR on R2s without going in the red on temps.

Ages ago in RSC people said they couldn't wait for tire temps because many people would over cook their tires because of the way the drive. This is now proving to be true

Yet people are now bursting into tears cos 'it's too hard'. That's why God invented NFS

Quote from tristancliffe :

That's why God invented NFS

I knew it! EA is God! He oughta have stopped all this creating business after seven days, that ol' bugger...

LOL

EA certainly ACT's like God sometimes...

And EA spoke: "Let there be light", and there was. And you could see for bloody miles!

The tire physics are almost like driving on water with racing wet tires, and with dirt on the tires its like driving on snow for a mile. Not only that but even if the tires are cold they pick up dirt that stays for 20-30 seconds. A simple burn out on any set of tires would rid it of practically all the dirt.

And the tires, with a decent setup that can hang with the best of em' will overheat too fast and not come down soon enough.

PS: Tristan, its not too hard, its too unrealistic. And no you're not the stig.

Quote from Dethred :

A simple burn out on any set of tires would rid it of practically all the dirt.

agreed!

Quote :

And the tires, with a decent setup that can hang with the best of em' will overheat too fast and not come down soon enough.

not agreed!

Quote :

PS: Tristan, [...] no you're not the stig.

agreed!

Quote from Dethred :

A simple burn out on any set of tires would rid it of practically all the dirt.

I dunno about normals or supers, but the mud/gravel literally sticks to warm slicks like flies on sh*t.

Quote from Dethred :

And the tires, with a decent setup that can hang with the best of em' will overheat too fast and not come down soon enough.

Just accept that YOU are the reason this happens and that YOUR driving is too poor to race competitively (which means high speed, yet low stress on material)

I just got done watching two different 20+ lap races with full grids (12+ cars) of GTR cars. Those cars all finished the race without overheating their tires and there were almost no crashes due to "slippery tires" or anything like that.

I think the tires feel pretty realistic once you get a dialed-in setup (not the ones that the game ships with). If your tires are getting too hot you're either over-driving them or your setup needs some work. If they can last 20+ laps in the most powerful cars in the game, then the heat model must not be as extreme as some people here claim.

I would be curious to know how hot the track supposedly is though. Surely even though track temp doesn't change in-game, it must have some sort of effect on the tire temps.

Quote from Dethred :

A simple burn out on any set of tires would rid it of practically all the dirt.

Not true. In real life it takes some time for tyres to become clean again. Hot sticky slicks easily pick up stones, grass and dust. Debris becomes buried in the soft tyre, it doesn't just stick to the outside. If it was as easy as doing a simple burnout why can't the best drivers in the world manage to clean their tyres in a few seconds?

Quote from Dethred :

The tire physics are almost like driving on water with racing wet tires, and with dirt on the tires its like driving on snow for a mile. Not only that but even if the tires are cold they pick up dirt that stays for 20-30 seconds. A simple burn out on any set of tires would rid it of practically all the dirt.

And the tires, with a decent setup that can hang with the best of em' will overheat too fast and not come down soon enough.

PS: Tristan, its not too hard, its too unrealistic. And no you're not the stig.

You are driving the tires TOO HARD. Pushing into and beyond the slip angle for too long etc. If you ease off a few % they will not overheat. Its very easy to drive too hard in a sim where there is no risk to your live if you crash.

Quote from Gunn :

Not true. In real life it takes some time for tyres to become clean again. Hot sticky slicks easily pick up stones, grass and dust. Debris becomes buried in the soft tyre, it doesn't just stick to the outside. If it was as easy as doing a simple burnout why can't the best drivers in the world manage to clean their tyres in a few seconds?

Because they don't do a burnout? Why don't real world drivers need to take about a lap to clean off the tires? It just seems to take too darn long, even from personal experiences.

And the tire heat... all the cars I have driven (mostly straight line drag races) have required a burn out to heat the tires, and launching withing about 20-30 seconds before they cool down all the way again, and that's on drag radials. Street performance tires usually take forever to overheat and even then its not like driving on an icy road like in LFS.

And when I am racing in LFS I take practically the exact line for each turn without pushing too hard, and they still overheat after 5-6 laps. On real tires you have to practically drift a lap or two to make the tires too hot.

The tires start off way too hot, the Slicks are the temperature of a hot day in the desert.

Quote from Gunn :

Not true. In real life it takes some time for tyres to become clean again. Hot sticky slicks easily pick up stones, grass and dust. Debris becomes buried in the soft tyre, it doesn't just stick to the outside. If it was as easy as doing a simple burnout why can't the best drivers in the world manage to clean their tyres in a few seconds?

Yes, all true, but LFS is not right. In LFS the way the tyres pick up dirt is so uniform, so repetitive, for one thing.
Also, a puff of dust and you are on ice for the next corner, but the dust doesn't come off at a rate relative to the drop off in grip (after all, it's primarily the dust being cleaned off which makes the tyre slip).

Watching the WTCC at Oschers' highlights how over the top the dirt system really is in LFS. They aren't anywhere near as concerned about putting one wheel on the dirt as you HAVE to be in LFS. If those sticky slicks pick up dirt and keep dirt, but still slide on that dirt, in the same way as the tyres do in LFS, I cannot imagine that they would be cutting corners with such precision lap after lap, they'd be losing seconds per lap and position after position.

Not to mention the way that all the tyres in LFS from road to R1supersofthotslick pick up dirt in exactly the same way.

LFS isn't right, some significant changes have to be made, but the ingredients are there.

I'm not particularly concerned about getting dirty tyres. If I'm on slicks in a RWD car then I take it a little easy for a couple of corners, otherwise I can carry on as normal.

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Same as Bob. Sure they get a bit dirty if you go on the grass for several seconds, but nothing that a bit of patience can't cope with. And touching dirt momentarily in chicanes and corner exits is virtually unoticable.

If anything, I think the tyres don't stay dirty quite long enough at times.

What I suggest is get a hold of a racing kart with soft slicks on it, get them up to temperature and then go off into some gravel. Then you will see just how slippy it is, not only do you get debris on your tyres but they cool down and with the tyre being so hot the debris sticks to the tyre. Slicks are very sticky when hot, my Dad nealed down on my front tyre once when I pitted and ended up with a big patch of rubber stuck to his jeans

Keiran

Quote from Dethred :

Why don't real world drivers need to take about a lap to clean off the tires?

Well they do. Effects would vary between different vehicles and tyre types but it takes several corners to get some grip back and can take a lap or more to return to full grip (using an F1 car with F1 slicks as a real world example). Small stones, grass, paper, dust etc become imbedded in the rubber. Not only in the dirt but also on the dirty tarmac, off the racing line the tyres can pick up debris and lose their effectiveness.

But I agree with Bob Smith here. I often put a wheel (or 4) onto the dirt and manage to regain the tarmac without spinning and without losing much time. Throttle control and smooth steering is required for at least the next several corners (some cars are easier than others to handle, of course). Unless you leave your foot planted on the throttle it is usually quite easy to recover.
I used to struggle with the dirty tyres but it's not really an issue now.

In my opinion, it's just common sense. Dirty tires = being conservative for a while.

I don't see the huge fuss with the physics full stop. I know its a simulator and the need to add as much realism as possible but I think we've got an awesome game now to be quite honest.

I don't think anyone is saying that dirty tyres shouldn't make a difference, and of course if you've been into the gravel you can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
If this is as advanced and accurate as the dirt modelling is going to get though, I'm not well impressed. Watching a car need to brake 30 metres early, and trundle round a corner, because they got the outside front (loaded) tyre onto the grass for a split second exiting the previous corner bears little resemblance to the real thing (imo). But maybe I'm not watching the same stuff you all are. Heck, even motorbikes can run wide and still crank it right over for the next corner, without falling off on the ice sheet that is grass and dust on their extra sticky tyres.

I agree with you sinbad, the drop in grip is too dramatic from my pov.

Something else I noticed regarding tyre damage:

Normally the tyre pops when you reach 200°C, but right now it looks like that only the average of ALL tyre patches (of the inner/middle/outer part) is used, instead of each patch seperately.

So if you do a lockup from 250 km/h until you stop, you may have 45 (15 sections * 3 sides) patches at normal temp and one section at 999°C. I think that is hot enough to make the tyre pop in RL

I am not complaining that you have to take it easy for a while, sheesh. I am stating that it takes too long to clear it off. Also, when you have the brown bar all the way up it takes forever to clear it off, even though the tire wouldn't be picking up a whole lot more dirt after a few rotation on the sand. The max slip should be lower a little bit, and the max amount of dirt shouldn't be more than if you went into a sand trap a few feet. If you go off and have to drive a hundred feet magically the tires are worse off than 10 feet, both of which will completely coat a sticky tire with sand.

And with the Road super, I have personal experience (from messing up big time) with getting both water and mud on the tires. After a small burn out there is no noticable effect, and when they were muddy it wasn't as bad as in LFS with a little dirt. I think this problem is slightly compounded by the physics problems, but that might be fixed.

Also, when I have been drag racing (admittedly on the street) in my buddy's modded LT1 Formula (300whp and 350 torque), his drag radials would pick up sand and dirt from the road after a burn out, and still launch like crazy barely spinning at all. There is a fundamental problem with the dirt model, as well as the grip for clean tires.

The heat model is very flawed. As you will see in F1 racing, during slow driving (i.e. yellow flag) the cars will drive side to side to maintain optimal temp. After spirited driving on the LFS cars, you can slowly drive a 4-6km lap and still have semi-optimal temps without swaying back and forth. The temps rise quickly, but don't drop fast enough.

PS: Whats up with tires starting off at 60*C ? Where on this earth is the temp ~60*C?