I drew two lines, one parallel to the axis of the wheels, and another showing the torque difference between the two wheels.

As you can see, these two lines I drew are parallel, meaning that both wheels are receiving the same amount of torque.

The inside wheel is losing traction the easiest, so the traction control system is keeping that wheel where it should be, or about 4-5 percent slip as set in the setup.

The problem I see here though, is that the traction control is limiting the total amount of torque to the drive wheels. Real traction control systems rely more on brake application of individual wheels to keep them from spinning than on throttle reduction. The throttle reduction is basically just to keep from burning the shit out of the brakes.

In LFS however, it seems that we just have a fancy version of "Throttle Help" or in other words, the computer just reduces the throttle to the perfect amount.

I like that fact that LFS is getting more realistic as far as driver aids go, a different approach from the good old "Brake Help" "Clutch Help" "Throttle Help" stuff which seems more like a magic act of god pumping the brakes for you on the F08. However, I think it would really be an improvement to LFS to get rid of these rudimentry arcade style driver assists (with the exception of the automatic clutching, because threshold braking can be done,skillful throttle application can be done, however not many of us have an actual clutch pedal on our game controller system) completely in favor of realistic systems applied only to the appropriate vehicles, leaving the only assist that applies to the game itself, the clutching, for the reasons I covered in the parenthesis.


This is completely off topic, but even then I think the clutching could improve a bit, have it simulate a real shift done by a person, then on fancier cars like the BF1 which probably will have the F1 style automatic clutch gearbox, have those show the lightning fast computerized shifts.


Anyway, I know LFS is still under development and I think you guys are definitely on the right track as far as driver assists go, and of all the cars to implement TC, the FZ50 was the best choice. I don't mean to come across as bitching, just my idea of how I think the future of the driving aids should be. Anyway, great work! LFS is THE best driving simulator I have EVER used!

What diff and TC settings were you using?

Quote from Bob Smith :

What diff and TC settings were you using?

Was Thinking the same xD

If you follow f1 races, u can notice that sometimes during cameracars u can see the level of throttle and brake pedal pressure and if TC is operative or not.

If u watch well at these things, u will notice that the "TC" signal appear not as often it could seems, and the majority of times for less then one sec.

This, imho, mean that the setups of these cars are thought quite like if TC does not exist, and infact only on certain extreme situations (except start) it became operative.

If u make a TC as u said on LFS you are making a system that do the work already done by differentials (usually is clutchpack LSD on race cars), that allow the inside wheel to turn less then the outside for helping turning. Your idea is a sort of "active differential".

Maybe if u set better your diffs, tc level and gearbox u will not suffer of so high "torque reducing" made by TC.

Real TCS uses ABS sensors to detect the speed difference between the front and rear tires, and applies brakes, and/or cuts throttle, or cuts the engine spark, when the front wheels are spinning more than a certain percent faster than the other wheels. So, when the front wheels are spinning 5% faster, as an example, brakes would be applied to the front wheels. Then, when the wheels are only spinning say, 1% faster, then the brakes would be released. Kind of a primitve example, and it uses FWD as an example. And BTW, we should have ABS too, and ESP on the higher end FZ50.

theres many differing forms of real life traction control not just brake application. some use throttle cut, some use brake application, some cut individual cylinders spark, some some reduce ignition timing, either on all engine or individual cylinders, ive seen reports of prototype engines with solenoid opperated valves that actually use reduced valve lift to limit power.

going slightly off topic, if you have electronic managed diffs you can map these to control wheelspin with differeing responses dependant on throttle, car speed, steering input angle etc.

if you have a subaru with the electronic adjustable center diff, theres a company in uk that can replace the center console switch with an ecu that alters forward rear power split depending on gear, speed etc.

in f1 the tc is far more sophisticated than the one we use. also f1 drivers have the advantage of being in real world and(hopefully better than most of us, they dont use tc to protect them as much. if you watch replay of a new driver to bf1 and an experienced driver, you can see / here the new driver using tc more

one area that we could do with is for the tc settings to be live adjustable like the brakes balance and roll bars, it is in real life on the bf1 so would be approriate

Ok, is interesting this live adjustability

But it must be able to be set on keys or AXIS (for example homemade peripherale based on rotative pots)

Atm brake bal and antiroll live adjustability is pratically impossible to use during racing because the changement are so slow or fast and not precise that is better to leave one value only.

If you notice, in F1, especially Schumacher, use a sort of "manettino" (in italian, dunno the english name) for changing TC or BrakeB.
On this sort of rotative pot, there are 4 5 6 or more presets that before each turn the pilot can choose.

Can we have on lfs the ability to set keys as presets for BB or tc instead of these crappy useless arrow changes?

For example i can bind key A for 55% 45% bb and Key B for 70% 30% bb.
So when i press A brake bal will be immediately set at 55 45, and when i press B i will set at 70 30.

i actually mange to use the live adjustment for the brake balance and do quite often in races, aslong as youve got the f11 key mapped to your wheel or can hit it on your keyboard without looking then its quite easy especially since you can see balance figure on formula cars steering diplay

double post

Quote from SpaceMarineITA :

If you follow f1 races, u can notice that sometimes during cameracars u can see the level of throttle and brake pedal pressure and if TC is operative or not.

That TC light and rev counter are calculated from sound alone and I think the TC isn't very accurate light to be honest (or I'm hearing things).

i thought that my self about revs, wasn't sure about tc etc

talking of engine sound did you ever hear the last race in 2003 or 4 when minardi changed engine supplier and the engientechs had programmed the warm up cycle for the engine to alter the revs to play "when the saints go marching in"?

absalutly brilliant