Well, you can look at my example that i posted here, Carlos is one of the top drivers of our league, when he used the FZR and I was with the FXR, i couldn't do it.
When he got the FXR and I picked up the FZR, I won EASILY...
We did some races both using FZR, but he is faster, damn...
I could beat a driver that was faster than me on that track, just using the FZR when he was using the FXR.
The XRR, FXR and FZR are meant to compete.
The FXR needs a bit more straightline speed, and the XRR I don't know what to suggest, maybe a bit more power at higher turbo RPM..
Splitting the already small classes is a bad excuse for a bandage solution.
i would say that reduce the power for FXO isnt the best option
i think its better reduce the tire or increase the weight
coz?
if u reduce the power, the diference in final speed will be too much, and its better if the diferences became smaller, the cornering speed be more even... u can mantain the FXO the king of the cornering, but not as fast as today... then there will be more tracks with the class + even... reduce the power = hard to even out
i think for RB4 yes, its needed a bit of horsepower, like 5~10cv
for GTR class the turbo lag for both(FXR and XRR), and the lack of power of FXR are too much(FXR has 78% of eff, XRR and FZR has 87%...). If u reduce the turbo lag and add a bit of power for FXR u will get a evened class..
There's a bit more to look at, imho. Take cornering speeds in general: the FZR is about 5kph faster in the turns in AS North. This might be because it can run more downforce or maybe also due to things like trackwidth, wheelbase, tiresize and most importantly centre of gravity.
Weight and power aren't the only things to look at.
I voted to even out. Each car should have its pros/cons but overall, if you take the best driver for one car, and race him against the best driver in another car, they should be more or less the same in time. Real life leagues do this by limiting gear ratios/adding weight...etc...something similar should be added..atleast as an option on the server side for setup restrictions/penalties....i think thatll work great for league races and events..etc...
If one car in each class is so dominant, then why does anyone bother with the other cars in the class? Just because they look pretty? Is it purely to drive something different? It makes no sense. If Ford suddenly had a completely dominant car all the guys driving Holdens wouldn't whine about it, they'd switch!
The idea of making the cars all equal should be given up on. Make the cars have their own specialties. The AWD cars can be good for rally and wet tarmac (assuming it comes along). The RWD, rear engine car can be the fastest out of the corners, but with the most fuel usage and tire usage. The RWD, front engine car can be easier on fuel and tires, but not accellerate quite as fast (less torque). This would make the RWD, rear engine attractive for shorter sprints and tight tracks, the RWD front engine better for long races where tires can be a factor, and the AWD car better for poor road conditions. Not only will this put to rest the whole "equalizing cars" stuff, but it would actually give a good reason for driving each of the different cars. Instead of everyone picking their favorite car and driving it in every single race, people would be better served to pick the appropriate car for the venue and race length. Or, even better, how about some new tracks that would really highlight the differences in the cars. Given the proper track the "slower" cars could really come into their own. Give us a hill climb track (think Pike's Peak) where the AWD cars can really shine.
I'm suggesting that instead of "solving" the issue by making all the cars equal, it should be solved by making them even more different. We've got about 20 cars in game. Instead of having these three cars the same and those three cars the same, I'd rather see very different cars which are suited to very different tracks.
edit: think of it this way. You've got 20 cars to work with total. Would you rather spend three of those 20 slots for a single car class, or would you rather have one GTR, one DTM, and one WRC car?
I see your point. I like variety too though. There's a lot MORE variety in real GTR races than in LFS right now. I'm all for having cars with different characteristics I just think it needs to be slightly more subtle. Ideally, certain drivers should be faster in certain cars depending on their style and / or skill level - so some people could be faster in the FZ and some people might be faster in the XR. And of course the track would influence the outcome as well. That would be ideal in my world. It shouldn't be so that one single car per class dominates on every track regardless of the driver. Personally I think that one car per class would be boring but that's just me.
Why? Most people seem to pick one car then stick to it. If you're not driving all of the different cars then what makes having them so beneficial? It seems to me that most people want the cars evened for one of two reasons:
1) the car they like isn't as fast as some other car in the same class
2) just *because*.
Number two seems to stem from some need to see more than one body style on the track or something. I don't get that. There are plenty of race series where there's only one kind of car on the track (or things like NASCAR, where they're basically the same other than the logo on the hood).
I just explained why! One thing that's great about LFS is the diversity in drivetrains. As I said above, it would be great to pick a car that you actually like, rather than having to pick one car because it's the quickest car no matter what in all situations. If some one dislikes how a rear engined car handles, then too bad - they still have to drive it to be competitive. You had a point: why have the other cars if they're not competive? Nonetheless, they are there so that takes care of that argument. I agree that the cars should be different as you suggested, but the differences should be a bit more subtle, and therefore take into consideration other things like the driver and the track. This way the cars are NOT the same, (which you're right; they shouldn't be) but rather the differences can be exploited for gain by different drivers on different tracks, thus there are three variables that SHOULD matter: Car, Track, Driver. Right now, it's just the car and nothing else.
You said it was boring, but didn't say why. You said you like variety, but if all the cars ran evenly what reason would you have to make use of that variety? Wouldn't you just pick your favortie and stick to it, since the cars would all run evenly? How does making the cars all "equal" make it not boring? If anything, doing so would remove any incentive to ever try something new!
That's why I'm suggesting that the cars be made more different. I don't want to see the FZR the fastest in every single situation any more than you do. I'm saying that NO car should be the best in all situations, but the easiest way to do this is to make the cars more different, not more similar.
But ONLY on certain tracks. On other tracks the same car would not be competitive and one of the other cars would be a better choice.
People are constantly saying that they want to get beat by the better driver, not the better car. There's NO WAY to even out the cars under all circumstances. So, wouldn't it be better to make each car essentially it's own class? That way you're never going to be beaten by a better car, only a better driver.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just trying to make a case that evening out the classes may not be the best option. Take the FOX for example. It's the only car in it's class. And races with that car are often some of the closest and most fun you'll find. Nobody complains that Driver X won because he had more grip or that Driver Y lost because his car uses up tires faster. If each car is made very distinct and has it's own specialty then these problems all go away. People are constantly asking for a rally car, a NASCAR, a live axle car, etc. Why not make some small changes to the current cars to fufill those roles? It would take a lot less time than making a whole new model and would give us a greater variety of racing. Give the XR GTR a solid axle and a V8 and you've just taken care of Trans-Am type racing. Alter the FXR GTR stats a bit and you now have a WRC car. I'm just throwing out ideas here.
I would really love to see the devs add a car like the Miata to LFS, but the last thing I want to see is a Miata, a Solstice, and an MR2 because then you get more of what we have now: one car that's all dominant because the others are similar, but not similar enough. No amount of work will ever make the cars exactly even. Instead of trying, make them even more different so that those differences really have an effect on the driving experience.
coz its not the point of classes, there are no wet track and no pikes peak
we dont need diferent cars when the tracks are not balanced for these diferent cars, if we dont had tracks to balance the cars, just edit the cars, each car will mantain your caracter, but equalized for the tracks that we had now
ur say like that:
"give 700hp to FZR then we had the ultra fast FZR, and wow, why we should give more power for the others two? just race with FZR and forget the others 2... right? maybe on wet tracks the FXR will beat FZR, but oh, we dont had wet tracks"
even if we had rally tires for GTRs, u can see the same result for TBO class, where NOONE races rally + tarmac tracks on the same champ, coz they are to diferents and dont atract the same people... there are people that race rally and people that race on tarmac, then the rally races are only with RB4... duh
edit: Now we had 100 people asking for even classes against 35 to mantain... why these 100 need to stop asking for even classes?
Read BWX232's post, Cue-Ball. That's why people want evened out cars. A screenshot with a couple of all three GTRs or all three TBOs just looks so much nicer than a single make shot.
No offense to anyone here but I think having a mixed field of cars purely for the "pretty screenshot effect" is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We've got only three devs on this product so our resources are limited. I'd really hate to see those resources spent trying to make the cars equal (which will never happen) when we could essentially be getting new cars (not really new, but the current cars optimized for different classes of racing).
Not sure, if I'm getting what you're trying to say, cue-ball, but to me, "evening out" the classes does not mean, make all cars in one class _the same_ (except for looks). Instead it means make them all (more or less, depending on track etc.) _equally fast_ while - and here comes the important point - keeping their _individual characteristics_. So, what could possibly be wrong with that?
I'd still rather have different cars that suit different driving styles on different tracks. What so bad about that? My point is not purely aesthetic, it's practical. Maybe I'll try putting it a different way:
The XRR could suit someone who is more of a fast in slow out type of person, whereas the layout of the FZR could suit the slow in - fast out type of people. The slightly lighter car could work better on tighter tracks etc. Keep the differences in handling and characteristics, but make the cars compete with each other closely ENOUGH that factors besides the cars themselves come into play.
A screenshot with a couple of all three GTRs or all three TBOs just looks so much nicer than a single make shot.