Michael Schumacher is undoubtedly a great driver but in this instance, as in others, after making a driver error his immediate instinctive thought was to capitalize on it. Some of us still call that cheating.
And in a few years people will like you will defend the new guy's actions just by saying that the only reason people criticise him is because they hate him.
I don't hate Michael Schumacher. Can I ludicrously suggest that you love him with all your heart simply because you are defending him? Is it impossible to give an opinion without being either a lover or a hater?
Watch the videos and make your mind up, but don't suggest that I'd already made my mind up before even watching it once.
You're funny. I didn't even mention the incident, nor my opinion on whether or not he was at fault or not. Thanks for the giggle though.
DEADSET LMAOO!!
Why is everyone so glad to see shumacher got the penalty? If say senna did something like this It would have been considered legendary and remembered for years. I mean the race might have actually been good with shumi on pole and faster cars like raikkonen and alonso behind him, plus now the points battle is completely over, alonso's just gonna win and shumacher wont even score points I bet.. awesome!
He finished 5th overall in the race
tristancliffe, i can totally appreciate your perspective on this, and i respect the way you've presented it. seeing the "mistake" at full speed this morning did make it look less like a cheating move, but regardless, schumi has gotten away with SO MUCH CRAP in the past that even if this was a bad call by the marshals it doesn't bother me one bit.
karma baby, what has been going around has finally come back around
speedfreak227
karma baby, what has been going around has finally come back around
speedfreak227
Oh I'm sorry, I thought your post in this thread might be related to this thread, and I thought by "you", you meant us/others/me.
Perhaps because they feel he did what he did on purpose to gain an unfair advantage.You could call it cheating or a display of bad sportsmanship, either way, most of us don't agree with such behaviour, and I would guess people are happy about because they feel they got what he deserved.
Spot on.It's actually possible for some people to cast aside pre-concieved notions and make a decisions for themselves based on the present facts.Broadly accusing people of Schumi hatred or not understanding what went on during the incident is no less insulting than calling people Schumi fanbois imo.
(Tigershark)
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by Tigershark
schumacher just can't lose ... and that leads to very bad situation sometimes
I'm 100% sure that the stewards at the actual race have car telemetry and lots of camera footage from which they made the decision of. It's pretty pointless trying to argue whether he did cheat or not just by watching a few video clips off the internet or tv.
If one does say he didn't cheat, how come didn't he follow the proper line like he has done hundreds of times before? How come did he brake with so much force that he would lock the wheels in a such low speed corner? That kind of "mistake" by a 7 time world champion isn't impossible of course, but very unlikely. How come even the experts of F1 (Keke) agree on the fact that he cheated?
I think he got for once what he deserved. I'm no Schumi hater, but he has stretched the rule book quite a few times before. Even with the drop to the last place he managed to earn championship points, that alone shows that he is a good driver.
I rest my case.
If one does say he didn't cheat, how come didn't he follow the proper line like he has done hundreds of times before? How come did he brake with so much force that he would lock the wheels in a such low speed corner? That kind of "mistake" by a 7 time world champion isn't impossible of course, but very unlikely. How come even the experts of F1 (Keke) agree on the fact that he cheated?
I think he got for once what he deserved. I'm no Schumi hater, but he has stretched the rule book quite a few times before. Even with the drop to the last place he managed to earn championship points, that alone shows that he is a good driver.
I rest my case.
Aaaand another boring race.
I found the race really exciting.
Especially the part in the middle of the race, where Fisichella outbraked 2 others after the tunnel right before Alonso and Raikkönen.
Maybe they thought it was Alonso.
Especially the part in the middle of the race, where Fisichella outbraked 2 others after the tunnel right before Alonso and Raikkönen.
Maybe they thought it was Alonso.
Coulthart didn't... That's the reason why Fisichella had to burn his tire to get by...
He deliberately hit hill at Adelaide and he deliberately hit Villeneuve. if those events happened today he wouldnt have won world title against Hill and he probably would of got a race ban for the following season for hitting Villeneuve.regarding the incident on saturday,the car didnt have enough `energy` to spin at the corner and the little spin which might have happened if schumi hadnt tried to `correct it` would have got the car pointing in the right direction. As far as im concerned, he tried to make it look an `accident` but made himself look an ass instead, thats a result in my mind !!!
Tango
Tango
The video is fun, although quite old now, as there are quite a few dirty deeds that could be added. But I will agree with the previous poster that not all are Schumacher's fault....
1) Obvious team orders to allow Schumacher past Rubens 'for the championship'. Not sure if this was before team orders were 'banned' but, to be honest, this is one area which I think nearly every team do to some extent, it's just Ferrari don't choose to hide it.
2) Fully agree on this one - shame it wasn't dealt with in the same way as Jerez '97. It's also a shame Damon wasn't close enough to see MS had hit the wall (he only saw MS wide on the grass) as he may have held back. Look at how skinny the suspension parts are - nowadays with modern suspension I think Hill probably could have continued (see MS/DC in 12). Anyway, Hill's moved on in life, so I guess it can be put to rest...
3) Actually Schumacher is in the Ferrari on this one! It's Wurz in the Benetton, and to be honest I thought it was good racing, neither wanting to give up the place.
4) Schumacher drifts wide when DC was on the outside at the hairpin in the French GP. Schumacher wasn't overtaking, but defending, and the yellows weren't local to them. DC famously gives Schumacher the finger but a lap or so later makes it past at the same place. One of DC's stronger race victories.
5) The Spa incident and aftermath - DC has since admitted it was his mistake to let off the throttle on the racing line in poor visibility. MS just expected DC to keep his foot down, and although criticised for being so close to a car he was lapping when he had a huge lead, he wasn't that close until DC slowed and it wasn't really Schumacher's fault. His furious march through the pitlane to find DC was embarrassing, and a little rich, though. I was thankful for DC's poorly chosen place to let MS past, as it allowed for Jordan's first (and Hill's last) victory.
6) I was at the trackside at Spa right in front of this one. On the long straight from eau rouge to les combes Mika had a run at Schumacher and went to the outside. Despite the huge speed differential, Schumacher still chose to take Mika to the edge of the track at close to 200mph where the grass was very wet. It was the one and only time I remember Mika being angry, and had a word with MS afterwards. Anyway, Mika had revenge the very next lap at the same place when he and Schumacher caught Zonta's lapped BAR. MS when left and Mika went right, and into les combes Mika got past.
7) MS exits the pits and drives Frentzen's Williams straight off the track. Not sure if it was dirty or just incompetent, but definitely Schumacher's fault. He did cross the pit exit lines, but I'm not sure that was against the regulations back then.
8) Jerez, the one he was actually punished for. Not much to say that hasn't been, but had MS played cleanly he should have let JV through and tucked in behind. JV was carrying a little too much speed and probably would have run wide allowing MS back past.
9) Is there something we should know about Michael?
10) Spa again, on the run to la Source hairpin. Fisichella has a run on the outside, and right in the braking zone Schumacher cuts across on him. Totally Schumacher's fault - not sure if he was focusing more on a battle ahead or was trying to block Fisichella, but he has a habit of blocking too late when another car has higher speed and is just about to pass. He did it to JPM in Brazil too.
[EDIT - Not Spa but Germany....]
11) Schumacher gets a little shirty with Damon Hill after their clash at Monza '95. This one was more Damon's fault. Schumacher and Damon were racing into the distance nose to tail, and came across Taki Inoue (incompetent backmarker from the '90s, but not quite as bad as Ide). Inoue let MS past on one side and then (maybe not seeing Hill) Inoue moved across. Damon went to the other side and in an attempt to ensure he got past Inoue he released his brake slightly to show Taki his nose and ran in to the back of Schumacher. It was pretty much a mistake by Damon dealing with Inoue rather than an attempt to pass MS, Hill got a 1 race suspended ban. Got to love those stewards....
12) This one wasn't really Schumacher playing dirty - DC ran wide and although mostly ahead tried to retake the racing line with Schumacher partly alongside. A racing incident, where DC came off worse.
There's a similar montage of JPM's most entertaining moments, but I can't find it at the moment. It shows why people hate to love him sometimes - some great racing and overtaking, and some big cock-ups. One thing you can say about JPM, it's never done in a dirty way - he's just a racer. The montage didn't have so much from his McLaren days though, which would be more cock-ups than great racing. It's a shame he hasn't made the most out of his time at McLaren - DC had proved to be a stronger partner to Kimi.
Actually that was Germany 2000 IIRC.
I believe the Ferrari & Schumacher fans who have voiced their opinion on the incident, the majority of whome are agreeing with the stewards, do not fall into the category of trying to be cool by hating Schumacher.
I dislike the fellow because he regularly pulls stunts like this. It's the same reason I disliked Ayrton Senna in his day, although Schumacher has taken "unsporting" to new dizzy heights. However, to answer another point asked here by somebody else, I dont make a habbit of speaking ill of the dead. Ayrton was a brilliant driver who experienced some controversy in his career, that's about as much as needs to be said. He wont be remembered for a few indiscretions, because he's remembered for bloodying his crash helmet infront of us.
Michael Schumacher
made a deliberate move on Villeneuve in Jerez 97, as ruled by the governing body.
was involed in a RACING INCIDENT in Adelaide 94, as ruled by the governing body. (interesting thread---http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23482&pagenumber=3)
made a deliberate move to ruin others' run in qualifying Monaco 2006, as ruled by the govering body.
After all is said and done, he is a blindingly fast bloke who kept his passion and motivation all through his 15 odd years long F1 career, broke nearlly all the record that matters, and in the process put on many stunning performances the sport has ever seen.
made a deliberate move on Villeneuve in Jerez 97, as ruled by the governing body.
was involed in a RACING INCIDENT in Adelaide 94, as ruled by the governing body. (interesting thread---http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23482&pagenumber=3)
made a deliberate move to ruin others' run in qualifying Monaco 2006, as ruled by the govering body.
After all is said and done, he is a blindingly fast bloke who kept his passion and motivation all through his 15 odd years long F1 career, broke nearlly all the record that matters, and in the process put on many stunning performances the sport has ever seen.
Hi all,
Some heat flames are coming between you guys .
Seriously I like watching F1 and there are other team/drivers who could be called cheaters as well or driving in a unsportmenship way.
I have respect to Michael Schumacher`s driving skills but not to his behaviour.He think something because how good he is that he is the only one on the track and everything is allowed his way.
Some heat flames are coming between you guys
.Seriously I like watching F1 and there are other team/drivers who could be called cheaters as well or driving in a unsportmenship way.
I have respect to Michael Schumacher`s driving skills but not to his behaviour.He think something because how good he is that he is the only one on the track and everything is allowed his way.
yep, you're right. I realised after I posted, but as I was wanting to avoid the result of Monaco until I watched my tape, so I stayed off the forum.
Tristan, the speed seems VERY low indicating the car was NOT sliding. It seemed to be rolling. He was behind his fastest time took a really weird 'inside line' then seemed to lock the brakes a tiny bit after which he was doing less than 20mph, rolling, steering left to go wide and then steer right too late to make the turn.. Anyway with this punishment nobody will likely do something as dubious as this for a while to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jcHrHUJdu0
From the above view his car was indeed sliding a bit, beginning from the entrance right to the middle of the corner.
The problem is not so much that he did it... It is how he did it...
Even if it was not deliberate, it was a stupid move that he knew would have people frowning. It's not like Ferrari have a shortage of parts, so what he should've done was simply hit the barrier and break the front wing. That way it would've been much less controversial.
Even if it was not deliberate, it was a stupid move that he knew would have people frowning. It's not like Ferrari have a shortage of parts, so what he should've done was simply hit the barrier and break the front wing. That way it would've been much less controversial.
This is what I meant about the flaming (and I mean no offence Niels ). People make rash claims like the car wasn't sliding at all, only to be proven wrong.
As I've said I don't have the telemetry so I can't say where he braked, or his speeds, but from a purely videographical point of view he made a mistake. Don't tell me you've never made a mistake despite braking at the same point on the same line and run wide in LFS?
). People make rash claims like the car wasn't sliding at all, only to be proven wrong.As I've said I don't have the telemetry so I can't say where he braked, or his speeds, but from a purely videographical point of view he made a mistake. Don't tell me you've never made a mistake despite braking at the same point on the same line and run wide in LFS?
Ferrari cheats at monaco?
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