Well what grinds my gears (no pun intended) is drivers with little experience who do no practice, drivers/teams that make alot of mistakes during a race and seem to do nothing to solve the problem and keep making those mistakes in every race.

I mean sure I think LLM are taking an unfair beating, like I said to Sean on TS the other night. In some way no matter how people see LLM the fact of the matter is in some way, without LLM it wouldn't be quite the same.

Although it does seem to be a fact that every race there is a major incident involving an LLM car and it's not uncommon at all to see an LLM vehicle on it's lid during an event. That's what annoys me because it doesn't seem to get rectified because it seems to happen all the time.

In some way I do have respect for LLM because no matter what they keep racing and to be fair that should be commended because after bad results alot of people lose motivation and give up completely.

Quote from Dennis93 :

(Wherever you go, whatever you do
I will be right here, waiting for you)

Great, now everytime I hear this, I'll think of dennis

I've recently remembered about the 3id setup guild and also the advanced LFS setup guild on wiki, both of them together are working wonders for me at the moment

Quote from Yuusei :

Great, now everytime I hear this, I'll think of dennis

We all think of Dennis anyway

This is my Dennis song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIPqafd4As

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

both Sean and Dustin make a good point here. It's a hard subject. Should we allow "slow" drivers to participate in this league or not. IMO if the "slow" drivers get enough practice in following up blue flags properly, they should be able to race. But they can't practice it themselves. There should be someone helping them. Now LLM has a lot of drivers to help the 72 car and ray, but maybe some other teams don't have that luxury. Do not be afraid to ask people to help. Although there is big rivalry between the top teams, they still are kind enough (I hope) to help them slower teams out with that kind of stuff.

Alright, since I'm the guy that is behind everything that the #72 does, I'll try to explain the purpose of the car for those wondering why the hell we race a car this slow.

This entry started when we got interest from a few new members to the team that wanted to try out endurance racing. For me it felt like a good idea - we could be able to give these new members the chance to race in a top-tier league because then we can show them that 1. Racing in a top-tier league is very different from racing in cargame.nl and 2. The feeling and experience of what an endurance race really is about. We only set one objective for this car - finish the race. Any objectives harder than that would make these guys more nervous than they already were.

The problem with this particular race was that Ray had to fill in for one of our guys in the GT1 car, and that left the #72 with no experienced driver to help Pablo, Jorge and Sigitas out during the race. The problems were 1. No experience with GTs in South City, which contributed to 2. Really nervous heads that didn't know how to react when there were faster cars around them. I think you all know where that last one led to.

Letting the #72 race here was always going to be a very risky decision, but now that I know the dangers of a 100% inexperienced lineup in a GTWS field, I'll make sure that these guys don't race without a more experienced driver again.

Quote from Senninha25 :

Alright, since I'm the guy that is behind everything that the #72 does, I'll try to explain the purpose of the car for those wondering why the hell we race a car this slow.

This entry started when we got interest from a few new members to the team that wanted to try out endurance racing. For me it felt like a good idea - we could be able to give these new members the chance to race in a top-tier league because then we can show them that 1. Racing in a top-tier league is very different from racing in cargame.nl and 2. The feeling and experience of what an endurance race really is about. We only set one objective for this car - finish the race. Any objectives harder than that would make these guys more nervous than they already were.

The problem with this particular race was that Ray had to fill in for one of our guys in the GT1 car, and that left the #72 with no experienced driver to help Pablo, Jorge and Sigitas out during the race. The problems were 1. No experience with GTs in South City, which contributed to 2. Really nervous heads that didn't know how to react when there were faster cars around them. I think you all know where that last one led to.

Letting the #72 race here was always going to be a very risky decision, but now that I know the dangers of a 100% inexperienced lineup in a GTWS field, I'll make sure that these guys don't race without a more experienced driver again.

Well, I was nervous on my first league race too, it was GT3 BL1R. I didn't cause any problems, that's the thing. But i've putted like 800 laps there. Seeing the amount of practice, which your #72 drivers did it is as follows:

Max-Biaggi: 379 laps with fzr on so4. I see he drove also GT1, so not all of them is with gt2.

cyclone_u2: 384 laps
driverlt: 244 laps

Don't try to tell me that they did lots of single player practice. Won't work. I see that everyone said "Only once I had problem with LLM this race" Well we were 10-12 teams in GT1 with few drivers in it. Let's say 10ppl had problems with you. That's quite a lot if you ask me. I know you are trying to help newer drivers, but that's not the way how it should be done. They don't simply ask you if they can try endurance racing and you let them race. No, not in GTWS.

Well, this criticism is much more positive and helpful than some insults I've received. So thank you for the replies
I will continue to work with car 72

I know I may have been a bit evil towards the less experienced guys in the last particular race, the majority of that is due to the "heat of the moment". As I've said a few times, I understand people are bringing in new drivers with 0 experience to try and increase the activity and # of cars on track, but i think for the most of us all we ask is you do a full run through of possible situations that could happen within a race, and how to deal with them, also make sure they are putting sufficient practice laps in.

When I did my first race for e-team a few years back at so4r I had put in over 700 laps in just to prepare myself in case things got a bit hairy, and guess what, it paid off. As Dennis said, I understand that a lot of incidents are just general racing matters, but avoidable if the right training is put in to place. I don't know if many other teams do this, but from my first race for nFinity and every race for vires, we had someone else on team speak staring at remote and keeping the driver updated every half a lap if need be, seriously makes a difference and keeps you aware.

In my opinion, the track would cause problems inevitably because of the two different classes and the walls so close to you. Anyway in such a race the race isn't won in one single lap.

I think indeed for such a level of racing people at least must have done a significant amount of practice laps and preparation to feel totally comfortable with the car on that specific track. I agree that this is the task of the team managers.

In the previous race Corse participated, we have built the set completely ourselves and like is said above, this is not easy but there are some good tools to help you. We had an almost competitive set built from default set.

We used:
VHPA analyser:
http://www.vhpa.co.uk/download.php

and the well known LRA telemetry system.

When entering such leagues i guess the driver should be willing to put a lot of effort in. So they also don't feel like throwing it away in just one corner or one incident.

Greets

This is what I used to start off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_COn-S7isGI

I guess if you do want to enter such new drivers into top tier leagues, then I dont think sticking them straight into SO4 was a good idea. Even with 400-600laps , i would of rather started on somewhere more open (like as5,we1) so i can get used to everything.

just my opinion.

It's all about how you practice, not how much. Seeing the numbers of 700-800 laps is a bit silly, 200 is plenty aslong as it's not all just hotlapping. You should have a routine that you do for every race, and if you do that you should be prepared for the race. For new guys coming in, that should be shown to them by their team manager or whoever. Driving a stint to get comfortable with how the car changes through a stint, and practicing keeping the right amount of focus during a stint should be a must. If you do that you should be able to have enough control to be able to focus properly on being lapped etc.

But personally to me everyones motivation seems pretty stale atm, so credit to you guys if you're really trying to encourage new people to get involved. But just make sure they do stints in prac etc, if they don't then they're more likely to make you look bad. Aslong as they do that then the thought is clearly in the right place.

Quote from IsaacPrice :

But just make sure they do stints in prac etc, if they don't then they're more likely to make you look bad. Aslong as they do that then the thought is clearly in the right place.

They practice regularly - the problem is that they do it without too many people around so they just practice their stints without suddenly being posed with faster cars to let through. They went racing without being prepared for that, simple as that.

Quote from Senninha25 :

They practice regularly - the problem is that they do it without too many people around so they just practice their stints without suddenly being posed with faster cars to let through. They went racing without being prepared for that, simple as that.

Well about that. You are a big team, with lots of active drivers as it looks like, Just why don't practice like that: 10 guys go out of the track with GT1s and GT2s and start doing stints. GT1s will fight eachother and get used to the traffic. Same goes to GT2s.

Quote from krkriv :

Well about that. You are a big team, with lots of active drivers as it looks like, Just why don't practice like that: 10 guys go out of the track with GT1s and GT2s and start doing stints. GT1s will fight eachother and get used to the traffic. Same goes to GT2s.

We are actually doing practice races (of 1 hour) with as much cars as possible on track. But there is always a reason why there aren't enough drivers to simulate the lapping as good as you say. We are all in different time zoens and also have different times when available to train

Then why not ask or invite poeple to join thoes sesh ?

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

We are actually doing practice races (of 1 hour) with as much cars as possible on track. But there is always a reason why there aren't enough drivers to simulate the lapping as good as you say. We are all in different time zoens and also have different times when available to train

shouldnt matter, multiclass racing on CG simulated that enough.

Quote from Failezz :

Then why not ask or invite poeple to join thoes sesh ?

We have extended the invitation to a couple other teams but they never took us up on it so we stopped asking. Besides we need to hide our l33t pace.

Quote from xtraction :

I don't know if many other teams do this, but from my first race for nFinity and every race for vires, we had someone else on team speak staring at remote and keeping the driver updated every half a lap if need be, seriously makes a difference and keeps you aware.

Especially at 3a.m in a 24hrs race

Yeah Dennis that's racing, and that's definitely something unfair, but at the end of the day, that is also the most addictive drug on earth. Everytime it hurts you you ask some more.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Besides we need to hide our l33t pace.

Upside down?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Upside down?

lol your one to talk about pace?

Quote from Mustangman759 :

lol your one to talk about pace?

My one what?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

My one what?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

My one what?

Hahahahaha