Quote from Scawen :

It lights up the pixels for a shorter time so they don't linger, causing blur, when you move your head.

so the bluring in high persistence isnt really pixel switch blurring but rather eye burn in from sample and hold displays?

Hmm, no, I think high persistence is the actual pixel remaining lit / fading out too slowly. Low persistence, I guess is just making it brighter for a shorter period of time (though the final result appears a little darker).

Would I be right in thinking that the Oculus Rift has inspired you again? You clearly see the potential of it (and LFS support for it seems to be generating a fantastic response). I don't have one but just watching the Rift videos makes me want to play LFS again, nevermind want a Rift, nevermind go on ebay and think £600 for a DK2 isn't that bad.
I love seeing people's reactions to LFS in general. There are some that don't "get it", but when people see just how wonderful it is it makes me remember the way I felt when I discovered it (all those years ago).

Anyway, it's just great to see it blooming again, and if Oculus Rift is responsible in some small way, then I'm thankful for that

Quote from Scawen :

Hmm, no, I think high persistence is the actual pixel remaining lit / fading out too slowly. Low persistence, I guess is just making it brighter for a shorter period of time (though the final result appears a little darker).

Hi Scawen,

Just want to say great work on your Rift implementation! It's just brilliant!

I just wanted to add to your comment about low persistence. When one selects to run the refresh rate at 75Hz the image gets scanned to the display for 2ms and then the screen turns black until the next correct scan data gets sent to the display, instead of the full 16,6ms that a normal 60Hz display shows an image. The pixels do not shine brighter with low persistence and that's why the screen dims as the screen is actually strobing as it turns on/off very quickly.

Edit: grammar

Haha, the sweating is a serious issue. When I know I have a good lap and it's just a few corners left... I need to learn from the Iceman.

I've also developed a serious "just one more lap" problem.

Noticed in the DK1 that when you breathe through your noce some of the expelled air goes into the rift, making my face alot more sweaty than it ought to be. My face is pretty normal proportioned so I shouldn't create any unheard of aerodynamics in the DK1. Don't know if the DK2 is similar in that respect, but I suspect is it. I might need to sit with my mouth open to discourage some of that heat and moisture....

I have been so impressed with the new DK2 patch that I bought the S2 licence - your hard work is paying off. It feels like a made for VR game. Runs like a dream on my 560ti.

Quote from ctuchik :

Haha, the sweating is a serious issue. When I know I have a good lap and it's just a few corners left... I need to learn from the Iceman.

I've also developed a serious "just one more lap" problem.

I finally crawled into bed at 5am last 'night'.

Timewarp sounds seriously cool!
I can't wait until they get this product to the point of retailing it. I may succumb in the meantime and buy a dev kit of course.

I'm chuckling at the ridiculousness of people spending lots on a PC, lots on a FFB wheel, lots on a DK2, and then, umm, 24 quid on an LFS licence
The wheel and DK2 alone would be ~10-20 times the cost of LFS. If Scavier were (are? ) a little more mercenary they would (will?) be selling VR-enabled LFS versions at a premium.

Quote from Neilser :

Timewarp sounds seriously cool!
I can't wait until they get this product to the point of retailing it. I may succumb in the meantime and buy a dev kit of course.

I'm chuckling at the ridiculousness of people spending lots on a PC, lots on a FFB wheel, lots on a DK2, and then, umm, 24 quid on an LFS licence
The wheel and DK2 alone would be ~10-20 times the cost of LFS. If Scavier were (are? ) a little more mercenary they would (will?) be selling VR-enabled LFS versions at a premium.

Maybe it's time for you to pay me a visit? https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=86225

a fan blowing directly at your upper body including face stops all discomfort for he ( no sweat non steam up )


the implementation as it now for LFS I'm finding fantastic
......this low persistance thing is it on now ( or if at the moment ? ) by default


( I'm not running vsync and detecting no lag what so ever it like a 1:1 experience )

Quote from Scawen :

Hmm, no, I think high persistence is the actual pixel remaining lit / fading out too slowly. Low persistence, I guess is just making it brighter for a shorter period of time (though the final result appears a little darker).

yeah so it acts more like a crt where the pixels only flash on briefly
the point is though that an oled screen itself shouldnt blur either way since the pixels themself take near as makes no difference 0 time to switch states

however on a sample and hold display you also get additional (non display related) motion blur becuase your eyes have time to smear the image across the retina for the 1/75th of a second its being displayed (and if the display is seriously bright you can also get the effect of seeing a ghost image persist in your vision like you have after looking into the sun or a flashlight)

Quote from Neilser :

Timewarp sounds seriously cool!

I've now used the predicted time value, and used Oculus's prediction system so that with vertical sync it is now silky smooth! And that is without using Timewarp. I may implement Timewarp as an option as well, but may release a patch before I get that far.

With vertical sync on now it is seriously smooth but it's bad if you go below 75 fps and miss frames...

Quote from adrianstealth :

......this low persistance thing is it on now ( or if at the moment ? ) by default

It's not enabled in F3, so it's high persistence if you just with on. But if you run another demo, it may leave the Rift in low persistence mode.

Good morning Scawen,
i got my Dk2 too and wanted to test finaly LFS,
somehow LFS 0.6F dont recognize my Dk2 at all,
is there a special patch i first have to download?

all other Dk2 demos work for me in extended mode,
i'm even a pCars beta tester and it works there too.

I must something important missing here?

Win8.1 x64
i7-4790k
660Ti

Quote from Nedo :

I must something important missing here?

Yes, you missed reading first post!

Quote from Nedo :

Good morning Scawen,
i got my Dk2 too and wanted to test finaly LFS,
somehow LFS 0.6F dont recognize my Dk2 at all,
is there a special patch i first have to download?

all other Dk2 demos work for me in extended mode,
i'm even a pCars beta tester and it works there too.

I must something important missing here?

Win8.1 x64
i7-4790k
660Ti

You have to download and install the patch this thread is about
https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=86202

New Test Patch 0.6F4

You can now enable vertical sync in Options - View. I suggest you try that out. You should get a really smooth view as long as you don't drop below 75 fps.

Misc :

Driver's body is now enabled by default
Reduced input lag when vertical sync is enabled

Oculus Rift :

Predicted head position is used with vertical sync
Enabled low persistence display mode (on by default)
More helpful and better looking multiple selection dialog
LFS will now start up on default device if Rift is not found
Helpful message if detected Rift has wrong screen orientation
Position is retained if headset moves out of tracking range
Single mip bias slider when in Rift mode

https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=86202

Not an actual feature request or something like that, but not owning a Rift myself, yesterday I wondered if it would possible to create a realistic helmet. Like could it be achieved that the rift user feels like he/she wears a helmet.

Would be interesting how it would feel when the visor is only half down, or rain drops are running down in front of your face (down the visor). Maybe something for the future?

It's nice that LFS receives some excitement again, and those videos make me want to buy a DK2. But will wait for the CV1 I guess.

Did some rounds with the new patch and everything looks / feels a bit beter for sure thanks man!!

It was already very good for me btw but somehow it is even beter now!

So is it beter to enable sync and low persistence mode? I got 75 fps pretty stable.

It feels very good whatever I choose

Just did 15 laps or so with and without vsync, headtracking is slightly smoother with vsync on. The game itself does feel smoother at 300 fps compared to 75 though (of course). Not sure which mode I prefer, need to do some more testing.

How is the chromatic correction coming along, difficult to implement?

The best just got better, low persistence makes a huge difference as expected.

A few notes:

• Input lag with vsync still feels a bit high, got a somewhat dizzy feeling in the first 5 minutes of driving and then slowly getting used to it, would Timewarp make it any better?
  
• Since there's two locations to toggle vsync now (view and misc) how about synchronizing the setting for both locations? If I had vsync turned OFF in the misc menu and ON in the view menu, it was still turned off...
  
• Known bug from before, but the lack of a car shadow in cockpit view while driving the MRT5 with the Rift made it feel like the car was semi-hovering
  

Quote from ctuchik :

How is the chromatic correction coming along, difficult to implement?

Not difficult but will require a bit of code rearranging, a few hours work which I expect to do in the morning - a bit tired now. I just thought it would be good to get these updates tested while I'm at it.

Just downloaded and tested !


I had around 250 FPS and now constant 75 . Everything is smooth and great.
But I dont see a real big difference. I think I need to do more testing but still love it.
And now I off for 2 weeks without being able to test anything :-(


I will observe the thread and be back then
Thanks for all your hard work

Regards
Sven

So, this is a bit confusing. If I turn on low persistence that does make a huge difference. Much, much smoother. But if I turn off vsync (after enabling low persistence) I still get the effects from it even if it's running at 300 fps (screen is still dark, headtracking is smooth).

I though that was not supposed to be possible? Especially since you hide the low persistence button when vsync is off. I see no difference in headtracking smoothness between vsync on and off as long as low persistence is still on...

Quote from Matrixi :

Since there's two locations to toggle vsync now (view and misc) how about synchronizing the setting for both locations? If I had vsync turned OFF in the misc menu and ON in the view menu, it was still turned off...

They are just the same setting, using the same value to display.

Quote from ctuchik :

So, this is a bit confusing. If I turn on low persistence that does make a huge difference. Much, much smoother. But if I turn off vsync (after enabling low persistence) I still get the effects from it even if it's running at 300 fps (screen is still dark, headtracking is smooth).

I though that was not supposed to be possible? Especially since you hide the low persistence button when vsync is off. I see no difference in headtracking smoothness between vsync on and off as long as low persistence is still on...

Low persistence and vertical sync are not related, they are separate and independent. The option for low persistence is still available in vertical sync "yes" or "no" modes (only not in that initial dialog when you first go to 3D mode).

Low persistence is really simple : switching off the pixels more quickly so they don't cause an unwanted motion blur effect.

Vertical sync is simple in principle but more complicated in effect : Simply enough, it only renders one frame per actual screen refresh.

If you don't have vertical sync on, and frame rate is e.g. 200, LFS is basically just rendering loads of frames in the same place, and most of it you will never see. The actual screen cannot update faster than 75 Hz anyway. But you can get "tearing" where the recently updated LFS screen appears part way through the screen update, so for a very short time, you see the result of two separate screen updates.

Vertical sync should in theory be better because there is no tearing. But some people may prefer it switched off because LFS might do a few updates that you never see, so the final one that you do see might be more "recent" that the one that vertical sync would have provided. So it's a matter of personal preference at the moment.