I am FAR from a beginner to LFS, but I just can't quite get a good lap time.

I have been having A LOT of trouble with FE Green. I was racing on a server with it, and everyone is turning in 1:19's and 1:20's with FXO's and XR GT Turbo's. My best lap was a 1:23.06 with the FXO and a 1:24.something with the XRT.

How can I improve this? I got a good setup for the XRT over at team inferno, and someone has turned in a 1:18 with this setup, I still can't crack that 1:24.something. Does anyone have any tips?

I do just fine on both low and high speed autocrosses in LFS, in fact I do pretty good sometimes, but I just can't drive worth a darn on the track. It seems like no matter what I can't keep the rear end planted, I try to be smoother with it, but even in the FXO I sometimes feel as if I am drifting the damn thing. Anyone have any tips? I might see if I can get a replay posted up.

FE Green is not an easy track to instantly improve on. There are many places where you can save time, and 'make' time to improve your laptime. The chicane saves you almost a second if you take that at fast and proper speeds. Then mostly a lot of the ending turns can save you lots of seconds if you take them fast enough. If you are very cautious and don't learn the proper lines, the laptime will be greatly impacted.

Just post a replay, that will help.

Here is a replay, 5 laps. Lap 5 was going fairly ok, it didn't feel like the car was so damn wibbly wobby, I didn't need to fight it as much to keep it planted, but I majorly crashed towards the end.

It just feels like no matter what on this track, I just can't get the car where I want it, it feels as if I miss every apex and over/undershoot every corner exit.

bump

you were very slow through the chicane, uphill sweeper, fast sweeper after the wall, and then the final section of corners was all pretty scrappy. Check out some hotlaps from www.lfsworld.com to see where your lines are wrong and compare entry and exit speeds.

You seem afraid of your setup. I noticed you taking it real cautiously because you seemed to not trust your setup. As soon as it started to step you backed right off and you went into granny mode for the next few corners. Personally, i'd have a look for a better setup. One that you trust more.

Another thing i noticed was you really like mounting the kerb. And you also don't mind mowing the lawns too. I'd definately try stopping that. Hit F9 and watch how much of the race you spend with dirt in your tread, limiting your grip. That last chicaine before the finish straight you airborne yourself off them every lap i think, i don't think it's helping your times... but i could be wrong...

I had a few attempts but it was my first ever time on that track and the best i could manage was a 1:26. Hard to do with a mouse. A track like that really needs a wheel so you can deliver power on smoothly because those sharp but sweeping bends. Lots of on and off the power and i end up all over the shop with digital throttle/brakes.

I've included my first attempt at the track ever. As you can see, shocking.

Then i've also included my 5th attempt which was the best i could do this morning. Off to work now but i'll give it another go tonight.

I'm not expecting these demos to make you an xtr33m3 racer, but i think watching other people do the same track enables you to compare their stuff ups with your owns and you can adjust your driving accordingly. After recording my last one i watched yours again and i could see a few good things you were doing that would improve my times.

Cheers

I'd also like to stress the point that Tweaker already mentioned. Fe Green (or any other Fe config) might be the hardest track out there, in any car.
What u need to do is ram the car over all the high-kerb chicanes and hope you're lucky enough to stay on the track.
At least... that's my experience with Green (and Club).

yeah it took me a while to get down to 1:19's i can usually get down to withing 1 or 2 seconds of the wr pace within 30 minutes of practice if i really try... but not here lol

Thanks for all the tips everyone. You are right though, I didn't feel totally comfortable with that setup, it felt like unless I fought it the car would just drift on me and I would lose even more time. Instead of downloading setups I might just use the hardtrack setup and tweak it myself. Might not be totally optimized but would make it more comfortable to drive on the limit.

Quote from modenaf1 :

Thanks for all the tips everyone. You are right though, I didn't feel totally comfortable with that setup, it felt like unless I fought it the car would just drift on me and I would lose even more time. Instead of downloading setups I might just use the hardtrack setup and tweak it myself. Might not be totally optimized but would make it more comfortable to drive on the limit.

I reckon thats a good plan m8. Sets are such personal things. I can't use anybody elses sets and since I devoped the skills needed to make my own (mainly utter stubborness, determination) I've got a lot faster. I do know a bit about suspension tuning IRL mind.

probably better off tweaking a known 'good' set, I'd suggest.

Quote from Blowtus :

probably better off tweaking a known 'good' set, I'd suggest.

I always start from scratch. As soon as you make a single change to a 'known good set' its no longer 'known good' if you see what I mean. I used to take this approach but I find you eventually get to the point where something is limiting you e.g. too much front bar, too soft at the back, and so you have to rethink your approach.

It's amazing how two or three sets that I make can have competely different spring, damper and bar rates and yet feel almost identical to drive.

how do you start from scratch though? What settings do you start with, and what is the reasoning behind starting with those settings?
By 'tweaking' I meant 'change everything until it drives like you want', not just fiddle tyre pressure or something

Quote from Blowtus :

how do you start from scratch though? What settings do you start with, and what is the reasoning behind starting with those settings?
By 'tweaking' I meant 'change everything until it drives like you want', not just fiddle tyre pressure or something

I start by thinking about the characteristics of the car and think about what kind of balance I may need. I then think about the circuit and its nature. i.e. how bumpy is it, are there a lot of undulations, fast or slow corners. That gives me an idea of the kind of spring rates I might need. I then set my springs and rollbars and do a quick test to see how the balance feels. I make sure my brakes are set mainly on the front so they don't effect things.

I try and improve the balance by adjusting rates.

If the balance is about right I start to do some proper testing and see how the car behaves over the kerbs/bumps/undulations. I then adjust the dampers to improve this whilst trying to maintain the balance.

Once I've got the car feeling right I start to add grip to the front with camber adjustments. Maybe I'll have different angles on left and right wheels to suit particular corners. I always try to maximise rear grip with the camber angles I choose. As I add grip to the front I may make other changes to compensate and maintain the balance.

Once the brakes are set the car is pretty ready. All that is left now is loads of testing and improving times. As I do this I notice the nuances of the track and make small changes to suit. When the set gets me a good time I keep it, copy it and create V2. I'm on V5 Blackwood XFG

Sometimes I will start over because, maybe I've got too much front bar and it pushes on over some bumps at an apex or something. Then I start all over again! But it's not wasted time because I've learnt a whole load about the track/car.

Also, I look at other peoples sets in hotlaps and have a quick drive. If they feel much better than mine then I'll start over again, again LOL.

Ok. Reading that I'm not sure why I asked, very similar to what I do, lol! When I first started playing with sets I had to do a little more practical experimentation, ie start with a baseline guess and see how it felt.

As far as the bit about maximising grip goes, I have found a number of situations where adjusting camber on the rear for a smooth loss of traction rather than a grippy bite makes for faster times, for my driving style.

Quote from Blowtus :

Ok. Reading that I'm not sure why I asked, very similar to what I do, lol! When I first started playing with sets I had to do a little more practical experimentation, ie start with a baseline guess and see how it felt.

As far as the bit about maximising grip goes, I have found a number of situations where adjusting camber on the rear for a smooth loss of traction rather than a grippy bite makes for faster times, for my driving style.

I've found the same thing - the final turn at blackwood for example.

Some great advice here! I would say the biggest problem for a lot of us is knowing what is causing what effect. If I have understeer over bumps in corners, I never know whether I should change roll bars, dampers, or what! I suppose that comes with a lot of experimenting

Regarding changing rear camber for more progressive breakaway rather than maximum grip, would you say that less camber improves the loss of traction?

Quote from Michael Denham :

Some great advice here! I would say the biggest problem for a lot of us is knowing what is causing what effect. If I have understeer over bumps in corners, I never know whether I should change roll bars, dampers, or what! I suppose that comes with a lot of experimenting

Regarding changing rear camber for more progressive breakaway rather than maximum grip, would you say that less camber improves the loss of traction?

Best thing to do is read some books on suspension tuning.

And yes, when you are running lots of camber, when the car is flat i.e. not cornering, there is less of the tyre in contact with the road so you will have less traction and braking on straight sections.

If you want the car to break away slower then try reducing tyre pressure. This increases slip angle because the tyre is softer. More slip angle means you will need more steering input and the car will break away slower.

Thanks. With the camber, I was mainly referring to the following comment by Blowtus, which I think is talking about loss of traction during cornering.

Quote from Blowtus :

I have found a number of situations where adjusting camber on the rear for a smooth loss of traction rather than a grippy bite makes for faster times, for my driving style.

I would have thought that less camber would reduce cornering grip but make breakaway more progressive, and I was wondering whether this is what Blowtus was suggesting with his post.

yes - less camber means that when the car starts to slide, and body roll is reduced, the contact patch / tyre load, becomes more even. If you were to have camber set so even load is achieved under max cornering load, as you go past max load (and start to slip) the contact patch becomes worse, reducing grip further.
This is most effective on the driven wheels.

Gentlefoot is probably correct regarding slip angle and soft tyres, but I usually find higher pressure tyres brake traction much more smoothly, at least in the road cars. Reducing the wallow of the tyre just makes it skip around more predictably, for me.